• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Mechanical belay device decision for 1 sticking/rappelling

razorsharptokill

razorsharptokill

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2021
Messages
97
I am using a JX3 Hybrid saddle. I am trying find my way to a system for 1 sticking and the rappel portion is my crossroads. It makes sense to me to just use the rappel rope as my tether. Using a prusik for adjustments is maddening because it gets so tight and is hard to adjust. I would like to safely simplify this and have been researching ascenders and belay devices. I have had some rappel training in the military and in law enforcement. We always used either just a carabiner or a carabiner with a rescue 8 to rappel.

I have NO experience with ascenders or mechanical belay devices so school me a little. Would it be safe to just use a ropeman 1 backed up with an auto block as the adjustment/brake at hunting height then transition figure eight for the rappel? The Madrock or Gri gri seem much more substantial.

Since the rope diameter is critical to the operation of mechanical devices, that impacts my decision for both rope diameter and which device to purchase. My main concern is safety 1st of course with ease of use 2nd, and cost 3rd. Buy once, cry once is usually my motto but if the same result with the same amount of safety can be attained cheaper...

So.... all of that to say this.... Ropeman or Madrock/Gri gri and why?
 
With what you are wanting to do(rappel rope as tether and rappel down) Go with the Madrock. You won’t regret it. It simple and you can trust it. For extra security you can still back it up with an auto block. Good luck. Sure you will get several opinions but the money spent on the Madrock is well worth it.
 
I found this video very helpful. The Mammut 2.0 looks like a strong contender also. Very simple, no moving parts.
 
Like I said. There are other options. It’s gonna be preference. The Madrock was the simplest for me. Especially for using as tether and rappel. My friend uses a figure 8 but by the time he showed me how he ties it off so it doesn’t slide for his tether, I was like, why not the Madrock!!? To him it was cost. You put it on, put your carabiner, attach to bridge and done. Pull lever to go down, take tension off to push up.
 
Petzl zigzag with Petzl’s version of a rope wrench called a Chicane. Smooth as silk ?

Rope Runner is another choice.

and the Akimbo is another choice.
 
I use a Madrock. It’s not that expensive, they are now not hard to get ahold of unlike a year ago. It works great. I tried the one sticking thing, it wasn’t for me. I didn’t like the slack with static rope and multi step aiders got real questionable once the insulated boots came out.

I climb sticks and wire aiders with a lineman’s belt. Get to hunting height and use my rappel rope as a tether. I don’t want to be switching devices when I’m cold. It worked great for one sticking though, very easy for one handed tending of rope.

I have a Black Diamond Gridlock carabiner and with some stealth strip on the spine the Madrock doesn’t move and is silent. It’s really easy to adjust when you’re hanging there hunting, as easy as a Ropeman.

I also have a SMC Escape 8 (mini figure 8 meant for a firefighter bailout kit) and hollowblock as a backup in my rappel kit. Just in case I dropped my Madrock. I also could do a Munter Hitch if I had to.

One thing to note, I think Madrock expressly states an autoblock is not to be used with the safeguard, because if it gets sucked into the mechanism it could jam it open and result in a loss of friction. I do tie an alpine butterfly at height though as a stopper knot.
 
I’m sure the madrick/grigri/etc are nice, but unless you SRT’ing and need to remove your hitch/device every climb, I’d say spend a little bit of money on some good hitch cord and descend on a munter/super munter like you probably did in the military. Super smooth and stupid simple. Change out that prusik for a more user friendly option in that new hitch cord. Watch JRB’s video on the munter and rappelling on the munter. Second bridge is optional.

For hitches, check out the friction hitch thread
 
I find the Safeguard to be tailor-made for the JX3. Easier and faster to adjust your initial position vs a hitch system. Ready to rappel with no additional gear or effort. Easier to adjust when hunting and the shoulder straps are off. Makes a huge difference with the shoulder straps off vs on. My first hunts in the JX3 were with my traditional saddle hitch system. More difficult to adjust the hitch with the should straps off. Some of the hybrid's weight stays on the hitch and makes it harder to break .... even with a tender. The Madrock made the JX3 much more enjoyable. Two years now since those early hunts and for me, the Safeguard is the way to go.
 
I agree with michigandrake. I have one-sticked 2 seasons with the JX3. The 1st season I used the JX3 tether and transitioned to the rappel rope on the way down, using a figure-8 and autoblock. I agree, adjusting the prusik on the tether was a pain, also pulling up my pack and crossbow was difficult with the dynaglide release rope as it is so thin. This past season I climbed with the rappel rope and madrock, no need to transition, adjustment at height was easy, and pulling up my gear was easy with the rappel rope.
 
I went with the Safeguard, included in a rappel kit from EWO. I love it so far. Very simple and solid, IMO, and easy to work with as I learn how to rappel down. I decided that rappelling & trying an aider would be my "off season" learning for this year!

I have no concerns about the device breaking, but I also carry a figure 8 as a backup descender, in case the safeguard would somehow get jammed & I couldn't get it loose (highly unlikely, I know, but I can't help myself when it comes to worse case scenarios!) ;)
 
TradBowGuy said:
I went with the Safeguard, included in a rappel kit from EWO. I love it so far. Very simple and solid, IMO, and easy to work with as I learn how to rappel down. I decided that rappelling & trying an aider would be my "off season" learning for this year!

I have no concerns about the device breaking, but I also carry a figure 8 as a backup descender, in case the safeguard would somehow get jammed & I couldn't get it loose (highly unlikely, I know, but I can't help myself when it comes to worse case scenarios!) ;)
Click to expand...
I like redundancy too.. I’ve been using an ATC,but just picked up a Pilot and gonna give it a shot…..SRT too
 
I tried the Mammut 2.0 and it's not for me. I liked the simplicity of it but you need to find the right carabiner for the rope you are using. I used four different carabiner and three different lines. The only line I could grab with the 2.0 was Predator rope and the oval Kong carabiner but it was very jumpy. Also if you don't let go of the handle you will free fall. Ask me how I know. :grimacing:
 
For that you get out of it, the Safeguard is a great piece of gear. If you properly control the tag end rappels get pretty smooth with a little practice. I’ve gone from one sticking back to using 4 sticks, but have kept the rappel gear and use the Madrock/rappel rope as my tether.

I wish the Madrock had an anti panic feature, you have to train yourself that if it’s going to fast to let go of the handle, again where your break hand on the rappel is key.

I do also carry a SMC Escape 8, a super small figure 8 meant for firefighter bailout kits, and hollowblock. Weights almost nothing, sits in the bottom of a dump pouch. And anyone rappelling should be comfortable tying a Munter Hitch as a backup.

smcgear.com

Escape 8

Originally designed as a personal escape device to be used by firefighters in bailout situations, this ultra-light and compact descender is now the personal choice of countless members of SAR and Ski Patrol teams, law enforcement and military around the globe. Its compact size and lightweight...
smcgear.com smcgear.com
 
I'm another Madrock user, from preference, not because it's the only option. A recommendation for anyone rappelling is to get yourself a good pair of leather gloves that you're comfortable hunting in, I personally use the Outdoor Research Suppressor and Cold Shot tactical gloves. If you wear leather or friction resistant gloves, grab the rope nice and tight with your brake hand and hold it tight to your hip, if I follow this procedure I can crank my Safeguard wide open and get a silky smooth controlled descent. Practice and be safe!
 
So many ways to rappel, but if you want seemless transition a safe guard or gri gri is what I’ve been told. I’ve switched from a ropeman 1 over to an ATC with a prussik or Michoacán below it for a brake since I’ve rappelled…..2 seasons. It’s been ez with a simple routine and a second bridge for transition. A figure 8 should work the same, using the friction hitch for a brake. This allows for the “hands free “ operation needed to remove platform and stick (s). I simply tend my hitch out to the side and it’s smooth. Let go and I’m locked in. With the prussik(whatever hitch u like) below the ATC, it keeps the load(majority) on the ATC or figure 8. I’m gonna add the Munter hitch for rappelling too. Maybe not be my main method of rappelling, but I need to practice it in case I have to use it….I’ve studied the tie in a bunch and think I could hook it up no problem.
 
If you can, you might want to try the JX3 climbing stick with the wide step.
I found it much more stable and easier to use than conventional sticks, and the wide step attached to the top eliminates the need for a ring of steps.
I go back and forth between a Madrock and a JRB hitch / super munter combo.
 
A good triple action, pear-shaped carabiner makes the most practical rappel device, using the Munter Friction Hitch. And always assume the worst case scenario: you are rappelling after a failure of your equipment and so you are starting with nothing under your feet. Ya need a friction hitch that can be broken under load. I have supplied 3: JRB Ascender 523, Longhorn Agile, and Double Michoacan.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top