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My 2 cent vent (Hawk Saddle & Platform News)

ShawnE

ShawnE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
257
Location
The Thumb, Michigan
I shared these thoughts on the Saddle Hunter facebook group and am overwhelmed by the positive reactions and thoughts, so I figured I'd share it here in the heart of the community too.

I understand Hawk makes some good products and that their sticks especially are popular amongst us but with their recent news getting in the saddle and platform game, I felt compelled to share a 2 cent vent on the matter. I've been in the background more than anything and love this group and forum. Please don't attack me...this is just my friendly thoughts. I go out of my way to not support billionaires in the hunting industry. Follow the trail. Hawk is owned by GSM Outdoors who is owned by Sentinel Capital Partners...a private-equity investment firm with $4.7 Billion in current assets. We have the opportunity to support a lot of AMAZING family owned businesses and in the saddle game there is no shortage of hard working individuals making truly fantastic products where the money actually stays in the family. I hope the majority of us ignores whatever attempt Hawk is making to grab market share. Keep the money in the hands of families not Bugatti owners trying to figure out what super yacht and vacation property to buy next. They do not need one more cent from us. Lets help and keep other small businesses in this market get off the ground and stay in business instead. This is a tight knit community. Hawk doesnt deserve their piece of it anymore. I understand it's not always possible to not buy from big business but this is an easy opportunity to say no and shop small instead where you get better quality, service and people too, at least that's been my experience.

My 2 cent vent. Thanks everyone.
 
I know it’s been in the works for a couple years. I really thought their “game changer” would be a cheap made in china entry into the market. Not really much to tell in the picture other than the linesman’s loops are floppy. It’s also priced comparable to what’s already out there. It will be interesting to see what they came up with and how it compares to what’s available. Nothing wrong with options and competition. I really didn’t see it growing like it has the last few years.
 
While I understand where your heart is in this post, and I have and will continue to support the family businesses when I can, the reality of capitalism is that almost every single one of these small companies in the saddle industry only pray for the day that their business is big enough to gain the attention of a GSM Outddors so they can sell out and move on with their $ piece of the pie. Logic also flows that the more you support the little guys, the faster they get to sell out to the big guys.

Also, there are lots of little guys employed by the big conglomerates that are just feeding their families and don't get to drive Bugattis, so they are negatively impacted by statements like this when acted upon too.

Just throwing out a broader view on the subject. More competition in this industry, from both small and large companies, should be welcomed. Capitalism is not always fair, but way better than the alternatives!

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Well said John. I bet there’s a few mom and pops that would cash that check quick-fast-and in a hurry if some Bugatti owner sat one on the table. G2 outdoors could have a new channel G6 In the Sky with a few spare billions




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I will add my comment to this too. One of the joys I get out of hunting in general is the use of the equipment. It makes it extra special for me if the gear or most of it is also special in some way. I’m happy to say that majority of the stuff I use is also from the small business guys we all know well here. I do have some things from the big companies too. But knowing that the saddle I wear or platform I lean on very likely had the hands of the owner of the company creating it is special to me. There’s kind of a personal connection there I feel like that totally enriches the whole experience for me. I’m happy to be supporting them.

I am not at all against buying big name products from big name box stores to use for hunting. I have quite a few things that fit this category. In fact I am waiting to find a set of the 20” Heliums at a good price from a couple places. But they don’t have the same feeling to me as the small business products. If I didn’t have that, I would still definitely be hunting, but I would certainly be missing that one aspect of the enjoyment I get from this lifestyle.


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Not totally on topic, but I'll throw this out there for consideration on the topic........

I bought a hawk crawler cart. AMAZING deer cart. It is a legit cart. However, during the first season I owned it, while riding around in the bed of my truck, somehow one of the bolts that hold the handle on came loose and was lost. No biggie, I contacted hawk for instructions for a replacement, since it seems like an odd size. Nothing matches the threads at the hardware stores in our area. I'll spare you the details, but 3 emails, 5 phone calls, and a year later, I finally get to talk to someone who seems like they want to help me. I offer to pay for the bolt, but after he put me on hold to talk to the "expert on the cart", he comes back online and suggests I go to a hardware store to buy a bolt that matches. I told him I already tried that, and he says to go to a different store. Bottom line, they aren't willing to give me a bolt.

Same phone call......I had also bought a brand new pair of the heliums when the suction cup system came out. I put them together, and started using them in my yard for practice climbs. About 3 days into it, I went to step onto the top step of a stick, and the whole stick, taking me with it, comes falling down the tree. I ended up with a small injury on my leg, and a stick with a bent standoff and bolt. The standoff was loose apparently, and eventually got to the point where is spun when i put my weight on it, and i slid down the tree. FAST. SO, I ask the same guy if I can get a new standoff and bolt. He tells me they will warranty the whole set of sticks. I said I would just take a new bolt and standoff, as there is nothing wrong with the rest. he insists they warranty all 3 sticks. I agree. We start the process. He takes my info, tells me how to ship them, etc.... Then he suddenly says, "wait, we can no longer warranty those". He goes on to tell me that because I spray painted them, I had voided the warranty. I asked if I could still buy a standoff and bolt from him, and he said I had to buy a new set, but he could offer me 10% off for being a loyal customer. The last time i bought a $5 hawk tree hook, there was a 5% off coupon inside. that kind of diminishes the value of his 10% offer.

So, I told him no thanks, and thanks for leaving me stuck with 2 products that I can no longer use. he apologized and told me to have a good day. I am forever done with hawk. they got my money, they didn't care that i couldn't use their products any longer. sorry for the long rant.
 
backstrap19 said:
Then he suddenly says, "wait, we can no longer warranty those". He goes on to tell me that because I spray painted them, I had voided the warranty.
Click to expand...
How the heck does some spray paint void a warranty? Just a cop out to avoid replacing them. With that said, a loose standoff doesn't seem like a warranty issue to me but an issue with whoever put them together.
 
I agree, and I told them it was likely my fault. I just wanted to get a new standoff and bolt. I offered to buy them. They said my only choice was to buy 3 more sticks. Secondly, I agree, the spray paint thing was a cop out. I told them up front I painted them, and they didn't care until the very end. anyhow, it was a terrible experience, so I thought I would share.
 
I will support made in North America all I can. I buy vehicles made here.
As far as hunting equipment. I do the same buy North American but I can understand why a young man with a family and a large mortgage might want made in China Hawk sticks for half the price. I cut them slack, for them price matters.
I was that young man 20 years ago


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Last edited:
backstrap19 said:
I agree, and I told them it was likely my fault. I just wanted to get a new standoff and bolt. I offered to buy them. They said my only choice was to buy 3 more sticks. Secondly, I agree, the spray paint thing was a cop out. I told them up front I painted them, and they didn't care until the very end. anyhow, it was a terrible experience, so I thought I would share.
Click to expand...

I bought a Hawk tree umbrella directly from their site. No tracking was sent or confirmation email, it took forever to get here, I didn't like it, and I was afraid that I would break it if I fully opened it and flipped the "baseball cap bill" down into place. Also, I didn't mention the box was tore up in a way that made it seem like a returned item. It took forever to both order and send back (with their phone process and waiting on hold for 30 minutes or more). It was a month or more before my account was credited for the return. I called after like 2 weeks to check, they didn't know if it had been received. Between first order to return to refund...it was like 3 months of my life.

I own their sticks and some of their flexible gear tie on a spool, but that's it. I haven't moved on from their sticks yet (mine are heavily modified) because it is a decent investment and I want my next set to be the best ones for me (still deciding and watching the market of sticks).

Once a hunting company gets too big, most discerning sportsman with a little money in the bank will avoid most of their products because we know you save a little money in exchange for crap service and an inferior product. This is why Beast Sticks are doing just fine despite Hawk Heliums existing. Dan could probably quadruple production and sell out.

Take for example Hunter Safety Systems safety tether. They use a simple overhand knot, heavy/weird rope, heavy steel carabiner, and crimp metal down on the rope. Muddy is about the same or worse (they actually form a prusik loop with metal crimps that are hidden under shrink tube so you can't even inspect the crimps to make sure they are holding and not cutting the prusik cord in half over time.....duh....Muddy.....just duh). Hawk saddle will be the same. I just hope it is safe. A big reason people would choose the HSS or Muddy over a better option is because they don't know about the other options (not sold at box stores like Cabelas). So, keep spreading the word that a whole world of better options exists if you look.
 
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Westdesign03 said:
It makes it extra special for me if the gear or most of it is also special in some way. I’m happy to say that majority of the stuff I use is also from the small business guys we all know well here. I do have some things from the big companies too. But knowing that the saddle I wear or platform I lean on very likely had the hands of the owner of the company creating it is special to me. There’s kind of a personal connection there I feel like that totally enriches the whole experience for me. I’m happy to be supporting them.

I am not at all against buying big name products from big name box stores to use for hunting. I have quite a few things that fit this category.
Click to expand...

I resonate with so much of what you said here man. I have gear that's on both sides of the equation as well - but it's the stuff that's made by the small guys I have a personal connection to the most - which makes the experience hunting with that much more meaningful and enjoyable for me. I've been using my Muddy Pro sticks for 5 plus years now - and will continue to use them until I am able to upgrade to something else. At the time when i bought them, it was pretty much the best option available. With the newer options now, I've got to save up a bit before I can drop $80-100 per stick - but I will happily do just that when I can. And it will be money well invested too - every penny.
 
backstrap19 said:
Not totally on topic, but I'll throw this out there for consideration on the topic........

I bought a hawk crawler cart. AMAZING deer cart. It is a legit cart. However, during the first season I owned it, while riding around in the bed of my truck, somehow one of the bolts that hold the handle on came loose and was lost. No biggie, I contacted hawk for instructions for a replacement, since it seems like an odd size. Nothing matches the threads at the hardware stores in our area. I'll spare you the details, but 3 emails, 5 phone calls, and a year later, I finally get to talk to someone who seems like they want to help me. I offer to pay for the bolt, but after he put me on hold to talk to the "expert on the cart", he comes back online and suggests I go to a hardware store to buy a bolt that matches. I told him I already tried that, and he says to go to a different store. Bottom line, they aren't willing to give me a bolt.

Same phone call......I had also bought a brand new pair of the heliums when the suction cup system came out. I put them together, and started using them in my yard for practice climbs. About 3 days into it, I went to step onto the top step of a stick, and the whole stick, taking me with it, comes falling down the tree. I ended up with a small injury on my leg, and a stick with a bent standoff and bolt. The standoff was loose apparently, and eventually got to the point where is spun when i put my weight on it, and i slid down the tree. FAST. SO, I ask the same guy if I can get a new standoff and bolt. He tells me they will warranty the whole set of sticks. I said I would just take a new bolt and standoff, as there is nothing wrong with the rest. he insists they warranty all 3 sticks. I agree. We start the process. He takes my info, tells me how to ship them, etc.... Then he suddenly says, "wait, we can no longer warranty those". He goes on to tell me that because I spray painted them, I had voided the warranty. I asked if I could still buy a standoff and bolt from him, and he said I had to buy a new set, but he could offer me 10% off for being a loyal customer. The last time i bought a $5 hawk tree hook, there was a 5% off coupon inside. that kind of diminishes the value of his 10% offer.

So, I told him no thanks, and thanks for leaving me stuck with 2 products that I can no longer use. he apologized and told me to have a good day. I am forever done with hawk. they got my money, they didn't care that i couldn't use their products any longer. sorry for the long rant.
Click to expand...


Wow, what a shame. I had a similar experience with repairing one of my Muddy Pro sticks (same parent company). I was trying to replace a damaged bolt and they refused to let me buy just the bolt. I tried every local place to find something compatible, but to no avail. In the end they still refused to sell me a new bolt. I was forced to figure out a way to repair the damaged one - fortunately I was able to and not lose a stick from my set. I have no intentions to buy anything else from Muddy or Hawk for that matter as well. It also took forever to finally connect with a real person on the phone too. None of my emails to this day have gotten a response.
 
Let’s see a pic of said hawk saddle


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I too had issues with the hawk sticks. The cool new suck-tion cups. After reading the hassle of the fine folks like y’all and their dealings with the conglomerate... I just removed and tossed. Someone in her was messing around with 3-D printing some. Anyway. Too big and CS suffers, or can. Too small and CS can suffer in a different way.

For example. How long did y’all wait for a Mantis? If hawk would have made them , would have shipped almost immediately. They would have been crap and no cheaper.

That’s also part of our world. I can goto smaller stores that carry some hunting gear. Look at, feel, perhaps try a lock on or whatever. Enter the saddle world and everything is delivered via PayPal and USPS


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backstrap19 said:
Not totally on topic, but I'll throw this out there for consideration on the topic........

I bought a hawk crawler cart. AMAZING deer cart. It is a legit cart. However, during the first season I owned it, while riding around in the bed of my truck, somehow one of the bolts that hold the handle on came loose and was lost. No biggie, I contacted hawk for instructions for a replacement, since it seems like an odd size. Nothing matches the threads at the hardware stores in our area. I'll spare you the details, but 3 emails, 5 phone calls, and a year later, I finally get to talk to someone who seems like they want to help me. I offer to pay for the bolt, but after he put me on hold to talk to the "expert on the cart", he comes back online and suggests I go to a hardware store to buy a bolt that matches. I told him I already tried that, and he says to go to a different store. Bottom line, they aren't willing to give me a bolt.

Same phone call......I had also bought a brand new pair of the heliums when the suction cup system came out. I put them together, and started using them in my yard for practice climbs. About 3 days into it, I went to step onto the top step of a stick, and the whole stick, taking me with it, comes falling down the tree. I ended up with a small injury on my leg, and a stick with a bent standoff and bolt. The standoff was loose apparently, and eventually got to the point where is spun when i put my weight on it, and i slid down the tree. FAST. SO, I ask the same guy if I can get a new standoff and bolt. He tells me they will warranty the whole set of sticks. I said I would just take a new bolt and standoff, as there is nothing wrong with the rest. he insists they warranty all 3 sticks. I agree. We start the process. He takes my info, tells me how to ship them, etc.... Then he suddenly says, "wait, we can no longer warranty those". He goes on to tell me that because I spray painted them, I had voided the warranty. I asked if I could still buy a standoff and bolt from him, and he said I had to buy a new set, but he could offer me 10% off for being a loyal customer. The last time i bought a $5 hawk tree hook, there was a 5% off coupon inside. that kind of diminishes the value of his 10% offer.

So, I told him no thanks, and thanks for leaving me stuck with 2 products that I can no longer use. he apologized and told me to have a good day. I am forever done with hawk. they got my money, they didn't care that i couldn't use their products any longer. sorry for the long rant.
Click to expand...
Man, I'm shocked by this. Granted it's been several years since I purchased anything from them. But a few years back, I had an issue where one of there twisty gear tie things broke. I emailed them just to see if I could get a replacement. They sent me 2 or 3 replacements, some of their tree hooks, some extendable arms, and a hat. It was the best customer service I had ever received. Now I believe they were acquired by someone else since that encounter, so maybe that's the issue, but man. Sucks it's gone downhill so severely.
 
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