• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

My next step, arrows

Petrichor said:
Great post! I slightly disagree. You can’t double down on mass indefinitely either. There is a reason the 50 cal is no longer the king of the long shot. Several big but not too big calibers take the cake now. KE is more influenced by velocity than mass, but let’s be honest. We can’t add gun powder to our arrows. We stick to our draw length (hopefully) and literally the only thing we can really play with is mass. Whether by length, point, insert, feathers, nock, etc, we really aren’t really playing with velocity directly. Our velocity changes based on the mass and the draw length which hopefully remains constant. We aren’t really adding anything to the equation if we remain consistent. If we could add more velocity without changing mass, now that would change something. I go back to my earlier statement. Everything is a trade off. Based on the fact that likely a draw will remain constant, and if we use same bow then bow remains same (unless we change something). Then technically every change we make outside of small changes like string material and new form, only really change mass, which in turn changes velocity. Have hope though. Because of this there is a balance. And there is a most efficient setup for the user and bow. That means there is such thing as too light and conversely such thing as too heavy. Yes you can over do it. I can tie brick to my arrow but even my recurve won’t launch it but a few feet. That said I largely agree with the chart, but for the OP sure her arrow will kill animals no problem, and I’m glad it flies great. Have fun and good luck out there OP! But since she asked for thoughts and such in her post. I still think it overly heavy for the bow. To the nay sayers that say she won’t shoot outside of 20, ok, however if you want to be perfect at 20 do you only practice at 20? To be confident there I would practice longer too. IMO. I like the chart shown above but it is overly simplistic. I’m more interested in the actual data behind it. Your mileage may vary. I do appreciate this conversation though and I certainly hope it is helpful to all.
respectfully,
D
Click to expand...

That was really my point. You can’t increase mass indefinitely, but you can play with it more than velocity which has a relatively hard upper limit. There is a sweet spot depending on what you need (long vs short range, large vs small game, etc.). 50 cal is definitely not the caliber of choice for live targets, but for armored vehicles, it may be necessary. On the flip side, a .22 LR round will not be near as effective as a .270 or .308 at 500 yards. The real debate often/usually lies between the .270 and .308 and the .22lr doesn’t even enter the discussion. There is too light and too heavy. Then there is a range that is effective, and shot placement is always going to be king. Things go wrong so having a forgiving setup cannot hurt anything. KE matters for a bullet much more.l because the goal is to transfer energy from the bullet to the animal. With arrows, KE is less important because the goal is a pass through, which means the goal is to lose less inside the animal. That’s why I focus on momentum mostly, but I am not assassin. I’m just an engineering nerd who finds the dynamics interesting. Best regards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
johnfajitas said:
That was really my point. You can’t increase mass indefinitely, but you can play with it more than velocity which has a relatively hard upper limit. There is a sweet spot depending on what you need (long vs short range, large vs small game, etc.). 50 cal is definitely not the caliber of choice for live targets, but for armored vehicles, it may be necessary. On the flip side, a .22 LR round will not be near as effective as a .270 or .308 at 500 yards. The real debate often/usually lies between the .270 and .308 and the .22lr doesn’t even enter the discussion. There is too light and too heavy. Then there is a range that is effective, and shot placement is always going to be king. Things go wrong so having a forgiving setup cannot hurt anything. KE matters for a bullet much more.l because the goal is to transfer energy from the bullet to the animal. With arrows, KE is less important because the goal is a pass through, which means the goal is to lose less inside the animal. That’s why I focus on momentum mostly, but I am not assassin. I’m just an engineering nerd who finds the dynamics interesting. Best regards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
As a proclaimed engineering nerd, if you havent listed to that THP podcast we were talking about, I think you would enjoy it.
 
johnfajitas said:
That was really my point. You can’t increase mass indefinitely, but you can play with it more than velocity which has a relatively hard upper limit. There is a sweet spot depending on what you need (long vs short range, large vs small game, etc.). 50 cal is definitely not the caliber of choice for live targets, but for armored vehicles, it may be necessary. On the flip side, a .22 LR round will not be near as effective as a .270 or .308 at 500 yards. The real debate often/usually lies between the .270 and .308 and the .22lr doesn’t even enter the discussion. There is too light and too heavy. Then there is a range that is effective, and shot placement is always going to be king. Things go wrong so having a forgiving setup cannot hurt anything. KE matters for a bullet much more.l because the goal is to transfer energy from the bullet to the animal. With arrows, KE is less important because the goal is a pass through, which means the goal is to lose less inside the animal. That’s why I focus on momentum mostly, but I am not assassin. I’m just an engineering nerd who finds the dynamics interesting. Best regards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Well put on all points.
 
Fozzie Bear said:
Allegheny Tom, thanks for posting that chart. I want to highlight some things in the fine print.
Whether you prefer a light or a heavy arrow, there is some great stuff in Ashby’s work. Archers tend to debate Ashby‘s recommendation of heavy arrows and high FOC. But many ignore the other factors that he has identified. Factor 1 is structural integrity of the entire arrow and tip system. Multiple factors are about broadhead design, and there’s two or three factors related to shaft design.

12 Arrow Penetration Factors — Ashby Bowhunting Foundation

www.ashbybowhunting.org www.ashbybowhunting.org
Click to expand...
Wow, that's a great read. Thanks @Fozzie Bear!
 
If you havent listened to the Kifarucast podcast with Aron and Ranch Fairy, it was an interesting podcast.
 
kifarucast.podbean.com

Troy Fowler (Ranch Fairy) | KIFARUCAST

One of the more asked for and anticipated guests, Troy Fowler also known as "The Ranch Fairy" joins Aron today on in-depth dive into tuning. Better known for his YouTube channel Troy dives deep into arrow tuning, FOC, and extreme arrow weights. In this episode he and Aron get after it discussing...
kifarucast.podbean.com kifarucast.podbean.com

It's on other platforms, if you dont use podbean.
 
BTaylor said:
kifarucast.podbean.com

Troy Fowler (Ranch Fairy) | KIFARUCAST

One of the more asked for and anticipated guests, Troy Fowler also known as "The Ranch Fairy" joins Aron today on in-depth dive into tuning. Better known for his YouTube channel Troy dives deep into arrow tuning, FOC, and extreme arrow weights. In this episode he and Aron get after it discussing...
kifarucast.podbean.com kifarucast.podbean.com

It's on other platforms, if you dont use podbean.
Click to expand...
Thanks.
Other "platforms"??
You mean like Predator or WE platforms? Lol.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top