Need some advice....

[Petrichor]

I don't know what the insert/outsert he is using weighs but I was assuming he was close to 300 grains up front when he said it was tuned and he hunted turkeys with it.

I do agree the erratic flight could be caused from too stiff and getting riser bounce. But something had to change.

@sdorton, Has your string stretched and brace height changed? Are you anchoring a little different and your draw is shorter? If it was tuned during turkey season and now it's not something had to change. You just need to figure out what.

No idea on their insert/outsert, I miss read the op. I misread the gt classic part and thought gt trad which has an 11 grain insert. Hmm if that insert is close to 100 grains he could be in the 400 range. I still suspect 500s but also I’m curious about the tuning methods used.

 

[overspined]

Best thing I’ve ever done with Trad, is ditch the carbons. Wood or aluminum fly great. I can’t get any brand of carbon to compare. From 91-recently Trad is all I used. Now I shoot a few different things. So had plenty of time to waste on messing with carbons. All the heavy inserts, outserts, point weights, all of that. I have a pile of useless carbon arrows. wood or aluminum and all of your complaining goes away. That simple

 

[Robert loper]

before I drive myself crazy. I need help with arrow tuning. So I'll try and explain. I got my Toelke Whistler about 6 weeks ago. 60" and 44# @ 30.5" I started off with 340 spine GT Classic XT with 200 Grain plus their insert/outsert up front. I knew it would be stiff but was going through the motions. Sure enough way stiff with full length arrow. When to 400 spine GT Classic XT with 200 Grain plus their insert/outsert up front. Showed a little weak. After several cuts I ended up with a 31.5" arrow carbon to outsert and man did fly like rockets. Brace height was 8" and nock pt. 5/8" high from center of nock. I shot everyday and turkey with it and this thing was shooting good. Should have known it wouldn't be that easy......

Then all of a sudden I started getting erratic arrow flight. No idea why. I checked and double checked everything. Even moved nock pt. and changed brace height. Arrow showed weak and extreme nock high. Tried the 340 spine again and it showed extreme stiff. So I changed point weight cause shortening the arrow was not an option with my draw length. 100 grain field pt. was money. Shot good for a few weeks and then showed stiffed, nock high again. When back to 200 grain field pt. and it was too weak. 125 grain field pt. was money again.

Now I'm getting erratic arrow flight again. Sometimes weak sometimes stiff. Hell.....I've never had this much trouble tuning a bow. I've really worked on my form this year and I shoot my Zipper recurve great. No issues at all there. That's why I don't believe its my form. I know I can improve it but I fell comfortable that its consistent enough to get a bow/arrow tuned.

Could the 400 spine be too stiff also and giving me a false reading? I just got a 500 spine (Same arrow) to start playing with and find out. If I can't figure it out soon I'll may just wrap the bow around a tree somewhere. LoL I've played with brace height, nock pts., point weights, and I'm about to go crazy. What would you guys think as far as arrow set up would/should work? Any help and/or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Man i can usually help alot with slot of things when it comes to hunting but one thing i have not much knowledge about is building bows, arrows, guns, or ammo. Lmao.
my bff @Jhand does or figures that stuff out for me. Lol. He says “here shoot this a-lot”.
Lmao.
getting ready to pick up my new bow he built me in a few weeks and i know its gonna be awesome

 

[sdorton]

Update.....

Finally broke down and called Dan Toelke. He gladly told me his thoughts and gave me some pointers. He seems to think my setup is way too stiff causing false reads with the bare shaft. Also I've ordered a couple new arrows to try out....Dan gave suggested them.

So we will see.......

 

[sdorton]

I don't know what the insert/outsert he is using weighs but I was assuming he was close to 300 grains up front when he said it was tuned and he hunted turkeys with it.

I do agree the erratic flight could be caused from too stiff and getting riser bounce. But something had to change.

@sdorton, Has your string stretched and brace height changed? Are you anchoring a little different and your draw is shorter? If it was tuned during turkey season and now it's not something had to change. You just need to figure out what.

All that has been checked...Brace height is still good at 8" with recommended height 7 1/2" to 8 1/2". Anchoring...a far as I can tell everything is the same.....I shoot 3 under, bring middle finger to corner of the mouth, thumb knuckle is in the "pocket" between jaw line and ear lobe, and pull back tension till the cock feather touches the tip of my nose and that's when I release the string...

Hopefully after talking with Dan, he gave me some advice and tips and I'll give them a shot. But for now I'm going to put the bow down and walk away for a day or so. Maybe I'm just in my own head.?.?.?.

 

[Petrichor]

Walk away for a day or a week. I agree with Dan’s assessment. Get your new arrows in and ease into the tuning process. I’d avoid bare-shafting as previously stated because it’s maddening and most of us don’t shoot with good enough form to really get the benefits.

 

[sdorton]

UPDATE***
I feel so dumb. First off I got it worked out. Had to take a few days off though. 75% of my problem IMO was I let it get to me. I let it get in my head. But I also had a couple of things going on. 1 is I only had 1 nock pt. Didn't think anything about it since the string came that way. Should have caught that since I have 2 nocks on my other strings. This was suggested by Dan Toelke. Thanks for the help Dan. The thinking was with my long draw that my arrow was sliding down the string some on release. 2 was my tab. When I got the Toelke all set up back in the end April I used my old tab. Then got a new one. Trimmed it the same way as my old one. I thought it was broke in good enough but after shooting a bunch with it, it grew/stretched some. My thinking is it was interfering with my release. Catching the string some causing erratic arrow that was all over the place. Got it trimmed up and BAM. Shooting Lazers again. I've broke 4 or 5 nocks in the last couple of days shooting. Grouping better than ever. It loves the GT Traditional XT cut to 31 5/8" with 75grains insert/outserts and 125grain tips.

 

[Petrichor]

UPDATE***
I feel so dumb. First off I got it worked out. Had to take a few days off though. 75% of my problem IMO was I let it get to me. I let it get in my head. But I also had a couple of things going on. 1 is I only had 1 nock pt. Didn't think anything about it since the string came that way. Should have caught that since I have 2 nocks on my other strings. This was suggested by Dan Toelke. Thanks for the help Dan. The thinking was with my long draw that my arrow was sliding down the string some on release. 2 was my tab. When I got the Toelke all set up back in the end April I used my old tab. Then got a new one. Trimmed it the same way as my old one. I thought it was broke in good enough but after shooting a bunch with it, it grew/stretched some. My thinking is it was interfering with my release. Catching the string some causing erratic arrow that was all over the place. Got it trimmed up and BAM. Shooting Lazers again. I've broke 4 or 5 nocks in the last couple of days shooting. Grouping better than ever. It loves the GT Traditional XT cut to 31 5/8" with 75grains insert/outserts and 125grain tips.

The important thing is that you figured it out. Good deal. Happy for you.

 

[Red Beard]

UPDATE***
I feel so dumb. First off I got it worked out. Had to take a few days off though. 75% of my problem IMO was I let it get to me. I let it get in my head. But I also had a couple of things going on. 1 is I only had 1 nock pt. Didn't think anything about it since the string came that way. Should have caught that since I have 2 nocks on my other strings. This was suggested by Dan Toelke. Thanks for the help Dan. The thinking was with my long draw that my arrow was sliding down the string some on release. 2 was my tab. When I got the Toelke all set up back in the end April I used my old tab. Then got a new one. Trimmed it the same way as my old one. I thought it was broke in good enough but after shooting a bunch with it, it grew/stretched some. My thinking is it was interfering with my release. Catching the string some causing erratic arrow that was all over the place. Got it trimmed up and BAM. Shooting Lazers again. I've broke 4 or 5 nocks in the last couple of days shooting. Grouping better than ever. It loves the GT Traditional XT cut to 31 5/8" with 75grains insert/outserts and 125grain tips.

Interesting you mention about employing 2 nocking points (top and bottom) vs just the one (top). Since you've figured out and corrected the issue, I don't feel so bad about taking this thread off course... Can using only one nocking point cause issues?

 

[GCTerpfan]

Interesting you mention about employing 2 nocking points (top and bottom) vs just the one (top). Since you've figured out and corrected the issue, I don't feel so bad about taking this thread off course... Can using only one nocking point cause issues?

Yes, in some instances the nock can slide down the string on the release causing false readings when tuning. As @sdorton mentioned it's a little more likely to happen with long draws or short bows that have an acute string angle.