Need some more help with scouting concerns

[Schemeecho]

Ok, so hello fellow Saddle Hunters. I'm still fresh to deer hunting. I have a bout 5 seasons under my belt and as some of you already know, I have had zero luck.
I know that if I'm not seeing deer during a hunt. It's because of I few common issues. Either I have spooked them while walking in and setting up or they have gotten my wind. Or I have simply set up where there were no deer. It's been frustrating to say the least but, I am determined to figure this out. First off I am trying to devote more time to my scouting. I have tried using maps on line to look for good transition lines to look at and pick places that to me seem likely, Still no luck. I'm hunting a national forest that has almost 300,000 acres. So is there a way I can break all that land down to more manageable sections that would have a better chance to hold deer. I'm smart enough to know that where they will be isn't just by chance. There has to be a reason for them to be there. I just cant find them and I dont have someone I can take with me to help me figure this out.

 

[Schemeecho]

So should I start with the basics, food, water and cover? There are some streams that run through a lot of the forest and I have walked some of them.
The only sign I saw was from Hog and I did see some Hog as well. I have watched a lot of videos and while they give mostly the same information of what to look for. Trails, food, water, bedding, rubs and scrapes. They never do a good job of telling where to look for these things. so again I'm back to looking a way too many transition lines to cover. I could spend the next 20 years walking all of them. I have no problem doing that because I love to be in the woods. However, I'd like to be able to to find some sign of deer this year. If you was to help a new hunter like me , what advice would you give to help better their chance of finding deer? How would you teach someone to hone in on key spots in such a big forest.

 

[Zoa]

I'm in North Carolina, so I've got some roughly area-appropriate knowledge. What national forest are you hunting, and can you describe the terrain and types of woods (i:e: clear cuts, planted pines, hardwoods, etc.)?

 

[Topdog]

Have you watched the big woods series of videos on the Hunting Beast youtube channel, Dan does a real good job of breaking down big timber, if you haven’t I would start with that.

 

[Schemeecho]

I'm in North Carolina, so I've got some roughly area-appropriate knowledge. What national forest are you hunting, and can you describe the terrain and types of woods (i:e: clear cuts, planted pines, hardwoods, etc.)?

Im hunting the sumter national forest. Its a mixture of hardwoods and pine, no clear cuts. I have an area of 3000 acres and roughly 10. square miles that i am looking at scouting. Its hilly and the elevation ranges from 450ft to 500ft. There are several stream that flow as well as a gas line or something. i hunted ther last season a few time and didnt see anything except for hog. I know it hold deer Im just trying to figure out where to look.

 

[Schemeecho]

Have you watched the big woods series of videos on the Hunting Beast youtube channel, Dan does a real good job of breaking down big timber, if you haven’t I would start with that.

I have but a lot of it is not clicking when I'm out there. i am my own worst enemy when I'm out. I just cant seem to put the pieces together because I am mentally picturing what he was looking at in my mind I get overwhelmed and I see everything as one big blob and cant remember where to focus

 

[Topdog]

I have but a lot of it is not clicking when I'm out there. i am my own worst enemy when I'm out. I just cant seem to put the pieces together because I am mentally picturing what he was looking at in my mind I get overwhelmed and I see everything as one big blob and cant remember where to focus

Is there any swamps, any kind of terrain variation from monotonous hard/soft woods, does it border any ag land

 

[Schemeecho]

Is there any swamps, any kind of terrain variation from monotonous hard/soft woods, does it border any ag land

no AG Land meaning no farms that border it. there are some really tick and I mean thick. Some swampy spots but didnt see any deer sign only hog. and in the swampy sopts Dept. of natrul resources has live hog traps set up. Its not mountainous but it is hilly. a mix of hard woods and pine. I see a bunch of transition line on the onx app.

 

[Topdog]

Yea when I said monotonous hard/soft woods I mean just open woods, no logging, everything looks the same, thats how typical public land looks here in spots and can be the worst to scout… I usually move on fast, sounds like you picked a tough spot to learn on, if it’s open woods meaning you can see a good distance throughout… and the only swamps are being messed with by DNR trapping hogs, sounds like you mite have a challenge ahead, in areas like that I would always start with cover.. if the cover isn’t there, then your hunting deer that are nomads being bounced around by pressure from other hunters, even the buck sign is useless on those open hardwood ridges, made at night and often they are bedding on private that has cover and just cruising that open country middle of the night, it’s quite possible your doing nothing wrong, the spot sounds tough.

 

[LoadedLimbs]

If you was to help a new hunter like me , what advice would you give to help better their chance of finding deer? How would you teach someone to hone in on key spots in such a big forest.

Here’s a good thread to read over and over (there’s a lot to take in):

My Style of Hunting By Mr. Warren Womack

For all you folks new to mobile climbing methods, or those of us that have tinkered with our system enough to be dangerous.... "Not only is it good practice but it's also a good conditioning program for climbing. I try to shoot every day and climb up to shoot and down to retrieve arrows, about...

saddlehunter.com

 

[Schemeecho]

Yea when I said monotonous hard/soft woods I mean just open woods, no logging, everything looks the same, thats how typical public land looks here in spots and can be the worst to scout… I usually move on fast, sounds like you picked a tough spot to learn on, if it’s open woods meaning you can see a good distance throughout… and the only swamps are being messed with by DNR trapping hogs, sounds like you mite have a challenge ahead, in areas like that I would always start with cover.. if the cover isn’t there, then your hunting deer that are nomads being bounced around by pressure from other hunters, even the buck sign is useless on those open hardwood ridges, made at night and often they are bedding on private that has cover and just cruising that open country middle of the night, it’s quite possible your doing nothing wrong, the spot sounds tough.

now I know about another spot that was cut about 2 maybe 3 years ago. maybe Ill head out there this weekend and look around because I dont want to waste another season in a spot that I havent even bumped deer walking in. I also know of another spot that I have bumped deer mot of it is locked by a lake on the right side and private on the left. It has a huge area with rows of planted pines in the center and the main roAD GOING IN isnt even walkable any more but the edges are more hardwoods maybe Id have better luck out there

 

[Schemeecho]

Here’s a good thread to read over and over (there’s a lot to take in):

My Style of Hunting By Mr. Warren Womack

For all you folks new to mobile climbing methods, or those of us that have tinkered with our system enough to be dangerous.... "Not only is it good practice but it's also a good conditioning program for climbing. I try to shoot every day and climb up to shoot and down to retrieve arrows, about...

saddlehunter.com

I'm actually re reading that thread because there is a lot to take in.

 

[LoadedLimbs]

Toward the end of his lengthy post, he tells you how he approaches scouting a new area:


When possible, I really enjoy the opportunity to scout & hunt new places.

The first thing I try to do when evaluating a new property is to ride out all the available roads. While doing this I want a topo map of the area along with an accurate map that show the boundary lines, roads, creeks, power lines, plots, fields and any other prominent landmarks. Doing this I get a "feel" for the place and an idea for where the high percentage set-ups could be. The topo map will show me ridges, drains, sloughs, open areas, gradual as well as radical elevation changes. Using it I can also recognize saddles and funnel areas.

Next, I like to ride/walk all the boundary lines, to become familiar with the area. While doing this I use not only a compass and map but also a GPS. My next step is to walk all the creeks out, checking for natural crossings, funnels and potential feed trees (oaks, persimmon and honey locust).

After all of this is done I divide the place up in areas and start walking one area at a time. I'm trying to see and learn as much of each area as possible before gong to another one. I want to determine the predominate feeding areas and bedding areas. Deer usually have day time bedding and feeding areas as well as night time feeding and bedding areas. Early morning's and evenings are the best time to take advantage of their movement from one to the other.

I'm also looking for sign (tracks, trails, ground disturbance under feed trees, beds, rubs, scrapes) that suggest set-up places for me wait on deer or intercept their movement between point A and point B.

Once all of this is done, daily scouting for fresh active sign is what's needed for high percentage hunts.

 

[Topdog]

now I know about another spot that was cut about 2 maybe 3 years ago. maybe Ill head out there this weekend and look around because I dont want to waste another season in a spot that I havent even bumped deer walking in. I also know of another spot that I have bumped deer mot of it is locked by a lake on the right side and private on the left. It has a huge area with rows of planted pines in the center and the main roAD GOING IN isnt even walkable any more but the edges are more hardwoods maybe Id have better luck out there

A 2 or 3 year old cut will be just about right… I would definitely start there, and if it’s been cut hard, clear cut, walk all of that edge, you will find sign if the deer are there, good luck!

 

[John 35]

The simplest way I know to find and kill deer is concentrating on food. The trick is to identify the hottest food source in your area at the time you are hunting.

 

[Schemeecho]

The simplest way I know to find and kill deer is concentrating on food. The trick is to identify the hottest food source in your area at the time you are hunting.

See I understand that. I know food But how do I know where to start to find where the hot food source is in such a vast area. In my area it's going to be an Oak more than likely. and finding that will be way into the middle of the season when they start to drop acorns. I'm mainly concerned with how to find my starting point for scouting an area.

 

[kyler1945]

Ok, so hello fellow Saddle Hunters. I'm still fresh to deer hunting. I have a bout 5 seasons under my belt and as some of you already know, I have had zero luck.
I know that if I'm not seeing deer during a hunt. It's because of I few common issues. Either I have spooked them while walking in and setting up or they have gotten my wind. Or I have simply set up where there were no deer. It's been frustrating to say the least but, I am determined to figure this out. First off I am trying to devote more time to my scouting. I have tried using maps on line to look for good transition lines to look at and pick places that to me seem likely, Still no luck. I'm hunting a national forest that has almost 300,000 acres. So is there a way I can break all that land down to more manageable sections that would have a better chance to hold deer. I'm smart enough to know that where they will be isn't just by chance. There has to be a reason for them to be there. I just cant find them and I dont have someone I can take with me to help me figure this out.

Buy books on deer biology. Buy Dr. Shepherd's book on a statistical break down of hunting.

Read them.

Then pick a property, and start walking in a straight line. Mark all deer sign you see, trails, poop, rut sign, beds, etc. Don't stop walking until you start jumping deer. Walk to the exact spot you jumped them and find out why they were there. Can only be five reasons: eating, drinking, ruminating, sleeping, sex.

Make these walks at different times of year, in season and out, under different weather, hunter pressure, and food source availability conditions.

During hunting season, instead of walking in straight lines, follow deer trails. Mark all the sign just like you did before. But save your track as you walk on deer trails. Follow them until you jump deer or hit a property line. Rinse and repeat. Mark everywhere you jump a deer. Take note of why that deer was there.

Until you can regularly find deer in daylight hours, discreetly or not, you aint killin' em. Get good at finding deer. Then get good at finding them without them knowing they're found. Then get good at killing them.

Can't do the latter without first learning the former...


Carrying a weapon, and doing virtual scouting, are the two worst things you can do to learn how to find deer.

 

[kyler1945]

See I understand that. I know food But how do I know where to start to find where the hot food source is in such a vast area. In my area it's going to be an Oak more than likely. and finding that will be way into the middle of the season when they start to drop acorns. I'm mainly concerned with how to find my starting point for scouting an area.

Good: Find food sources. Pray.

Better: Find food sources with very fresh droppings in large quantity. Pray and Hunt it right then.

Best: Find a deer at a food source eating. Hunt it right then.

 

[John 35]

See I understand that. I know food But how do I know where to start to find where the hot food source is in such a vast area. In my area it's going to be an Oak more than likely. and finding that will be way into the middle of the season when they start to drop acorns. I'm mainly concerned with how to find my starting point for scouting an area.

In a area that is nearly all mature timber food is scarce because the trees shade out all the plants down at the deers level. Areas where the sun reaches the ground will likely have the most deer and the most food in the form of “browse”. If you can find openings in the mature timber on your map I would start there.

 

[Bogle]

Honestly, it depends on what you want to shoot. I would use a topo map and historical photos. I would take the topo map and look for wet swampy areas. Not necessarily creek and rivers, unless the swampy areas are connected to them. I would then use my historical photos to see the areas that look super thick. Next, I would look for the above areas in the most remote places. That’s where I would start my ”on the ground“ scouting. Personally, I’m not a huge fan of hunting hardwoods, but I do like to hunt the edge of swamps that butt up to hardwoods, as I know the deer will usually make their way to them. Keep in mind, down here in the south, there is usually some sort of browse all year long, so deer don’t necessarily have to move a lot to feed. I would then walk the edge of the swamp looking for trails coming from the swamp to the hardwoods. This is where I would set up, on the proper wind. Also, I see very few deer in the course of my sits. If I see a lot of does and small bucks I will usually move unless it’s the rut. Hope that helps in some way.