• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

NYSH F4 and FCX (safeguard/grigri killer?)

I think the F4 has been discussed recently. I saw the video a while back and thought it was pretty cool. I think the reason it will probably not replace the safeguard or Grigri is that the rope has to be fed through the holes manually and so the F4 is basically a bail out device, designed for firefighters to have so they can get out of a building in an emergence. I think that the price, about $75, will stifle the acceptance of an F4 over a slightly more expensive but more adaptable unit like the safeguard. If the F4 we like $30 more people might try it. I could be mistaken.

I am always happy to see videos from the New York Saddle Hunters. They got me into Ddrt. I just wish Ddrt was more applicable for me around here.
 
Agree with the comments so far.

Threading the device back to the top could be a pain. However, I typically do that with my mad rock and back up assuming I didn't pass any branches. I take them off if I can't get the rope to fall down and have to pull it through the quick link.

So this device could be a pain where you'd have to take it off and fully re thread it if you passed any branches.

Being in spec on 8mm is good.
 
Having to thread a loose tag end is a deal breaker for me. No Increase in utility over an ATC so seems like this is more of a needing more content to keep the social media going than a "game changer" like the safeguard was.
 
Nothing to do with this thread, but you got me to gugle the FCX and then that led to the LEVR system below. Not gonna lie... I want this just to play around with it. Watch the video. It's awesome. Sorry to derail the thread. Carry on.

saferescue.com

LEVR Escape System

The most compact escape system available. The LEVR Escape System is built around CMC’s patented LEVR Descender, a next-generation device that uses its lever-shaped handle for progressive descent control, fast and easy horizontal pay-out, reliable edge transition, and intuitive operation...
saferescue.com saferescue.com
 
I found the Madrock while compact it has along way to be called a smooth descending device. I am comparing others I have experience with- the ICS D4 descender, the Bulldog bone, Ropewrench and lastly the Roperunner. I have also used figure 8's,tubular devices. As far as a hands off, self braking devices that are matched with the proper diameter and material ( construction) can provide the smoothest ride. I find the ergonomics of the design play very much into the control upon descent. I did pick up a Sterling F4 and the proper rope as suggested by a tech at the company to make a lightweight bail out kit so we shall see.
 
We used the F4 with our bailout kits at the FD. It’s a great device. The only advantage is that you can use 8mm. It was designed for rapid bailout. It could be used for saddle hunting but manually weaving it through the holes every time would be a pain! Stick with the MadRock, GriGri, figure 8, Etc.
 
Red Beard said:
Nothing to do with this thread, but you got me to gugle the FCX and then that led to the LEVR system below. Not gonna lie... I want this just to play around with it. Watch the video. It's awesome. Sorry to derail the thread. Carry on.

saferescue.com

LEVR Escape System

The most compact escape system available. The LEVR Escape System is built around CMC’s patented LEVR Descender, a next-generation device that uses its lever-shaped handle for progressive descent control, fast and easy horizontal pay-out, reliable edge transition, and intuitive operation...
saferescue.com saferescue.com
Click to expand...

That’s pretty cool
 
Don’t mistake this device for the same type of rappelling we do as saddle hunters. It is used for life threatening situations and rapid escape.
 
Last edited:
Seams to me it all comes down to finding something nobody else is selling so you can get a market share, but maybe I'm wrong.
 
I believe you can use RADS ( as demonstrated by NY saddle guys)with the F4 and to me after rappelling threading 40' of line is no big deal while stowing back in my bag.
 
I was wrong on that, I was thinking they were like the older version of escape devices, this is more like a descender.
 
But can it be tended if you were going to use it at height? I need to rewatch the videos I guess.

Edit - I rewatched the first video - he seems to take up slack without issue
 
Last edited:
Update - I ordered and received the FCX. Instructions explicitly state one time use only

Sending it back.

Also - just a note that I couldn't even thread my 8mm rope through it because the rubber end caps of the rope wouldn't fit through the holes. The end caps aren't large.
 
GreginPA said:
Update - I ordered and received the FCX. Instructions explicitly state one time use only

Sending it back.

Also - just a note that I couldn't even thread my 8mm rope through it because the rubber end caps of the rope wouldn't fit through the holes. The end caps aren't large.
Click to expand...

Wow! That’s interesting! One time use! Things that make you go hmmmmmmm….

8mm with heat shrink not fitting is a bummer too. Thanks for sharing.
 
I'd like to revisit this post a bit if I can. I've read the comments and can agree to some extent with everyone's thinking.

I'm currently using a Madrock SG for my one sticking duties and its fine by all accounts. However, I'm looking very hard at the F4 for a couple of reasons.

1. By its design, its basically fail proof. Barring a catastrophic metal failure, I don't see how it could ever allow you to free fall to the ground.

2. The design would allow you to very easily throw a stopper knot on the tag end. I believe I read this in the docs for this device. This is something the madrock, grigri, etc states specifically not to do. So I think the backup abilities of the F4 are better.

3. I know many say that loading the rope would be a total PITA. I tend to agree, but I handle things differently than most I guess. Before I go hunting, I always load my safeguard onto my rope and have it ready to go before I leave. I do this so I can make sure everything is correct before and is part of my safety checks. In the woods, its simply hooking up my rope through my quick link, clipping into my bridge and up I go. As for end of hunt, once i'm on the ground. I'm already towards the end of the rope anyway and pulling it the rest of the way through shoudln't be a big deal.

Just thinking out loud here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top