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Optimal knot for tying linemans belt to saddle

J

Jeffy

Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2020
Messages
64
So im prepping all my stuff for when my saddle arrives....hopefully any day now. Due to the recommendations here i will be running oplux for my LB and tether with a knot and tender setup (still pondering which one, not prusik though)

In all of that i will be doing my linemans belt "permanently fixed" to my loop by way of knot. I will also be running dual LB for safety purposes and was thinking ill just run a single 16' + rope and tie to the saddle in the middle of that length with the knots and biners on the ends of the two 8' "tag ends"

What would be the optimal or a good recommended knot to use in that scenario to attach to the saddle? Would that be an ok idea or is there something about it safety wise i havnt considered? That would make it better to run them individually tied on individually?
 
Originally I had a figure 8 and then hitched it on the loop. I didn't like it being locked in one place. So, I tied a figure 8 and ran the line through the loop when I doubled the tag end. I am all packed up for tomorrow morning, but can take a pic tomorrow if you don't follow. I have a carabineer and ropeman on the other side.

Oh yeah, I am running a samson predator lineman belt.
 
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fig-8 followthrough is the knot for this application. Easy to tie AND INSPECT and is safe loading on either of the tag ends (so you can use it as proposed)
 
No need to have 2 dedicated lineman ropes. Come to a branch, use your tether as a temp lineman belt. Before I started rappelling, my lineman and tether were identical with figure 8 on both ends, and both with ropemans.
 
I wouldn't use a scaffold on this application on webbing. If anything occurs that could pull the webbing of the lineman's loops into that knot, then it unties itself. I'm not sure if there are formally two categories of knots or not: those that want to self-destruct during use and those that do not. If someone tied this knot on more flimsy webbing (like the homemade loops on rock climbing harnesses), then I would nearly guarantee that it would fail.

I would use a figure 8. If you want to lock it down somewhat, then girth hitch the loop made by the figure 8 onto the loop. Do the girth hitch twice and it will lock it down a bit more, do it 3 times and you have a prusik hitch.
 
Would the girth hitch, then the double, and so forth distribute the load any better and be any safer than just running an open loop?
 
The figure 8 on night is what all the cool kids are doing. It works great. That is what I was trying to explain on an earlier post
 
raisins said:
I wouldn't use a scaffold on this application on webbing. If anything occurs that could pull the webbing of the lineman's loops into that knot, then it unties itself. I'm not sure if there are formally two categories of knots or not: those that want to self-destruct during use and those that do not. If someone tied this knot on more flimsy webbing (like the homemade loops on rock climbing harnesses), then I would nearly guarantee that it would fail.

I would use a figure 8. If you want to lock it down somewhat, then girth hitch the loop made by the figure 8 onto the loop. Do the girth hitch twice and it will lock it down a bit more, do it 3 times and you have a prusik hitch.
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Raisins, I’m not sure I am following your explanation why you wouldn’t use a scaffold knot. I use figure eights, but a direct tie of the linemans to the hard loop on my saddle, I find the scaffold works well. It holds tight and is compact. I‘m trying to understand how it can “untie” itself as you mention. I know there are wrong ways to tie the scaffold knot. Maybe I am missing something and should go back to a figure eight? I do like the scaffold though.
 
KYRanger said:
Raisins, I’m not sure I am following your explanation why you wouldn’t use a scaffold knot. I use figure eights, but a direct tie of the linemans to the hard loop on my saddle, I find the scaffold works well. It holds tight and is compact. I‘m trying to understand how it can “untie” itself as you mention. I know there are wrong ways to tie the scaffold knot. Maybe I am missing something and should go back to a figure eight? I do like the scaffold though.
Click to expand...
Im not a knot expert, but I believe this knot is always trying to tighten when under load. There is the potential for it to pull the webbing into the knot, which would untie it effectively.
 
Figure 8. Id just use linesman rope and tether while climbing, not two linesman. Sometimes I think we do too much and it sounds like a recipe for disaster.
 
KYRanger said:
Raisins, I’m not sure I am following your explanation why you wouldn’t use a scaffold knot. I use figure eights, but a direct tie of the linemans to the hard loop on my saddle, I find the scaffold works well. It holds tight and is compact. I‘m trying to understand how it can “untie” itself as you mention. I know there are wrong ways to tie the scaffold knot. Maybe I am missing something and should go back to a figure eight? I do like the scaffold though.
Click to expand...

A figure 8 isn't a slip knot. Once tied, you can pull on it any which way and it won't move. A scaffold knot (and similar) is a slip knot. You untie it by grabbing the wraps and pulling the standing end (I hope my terminology is correct here) until the loop disappears. The only thing that keeps that from happening during use is you have something sufficiently large and sturdy inside the loop to block it from pulling through the wraps. I consider carabiners and delta screw links sufficiently large and rigid to block the scaffold from untying during use. I consider rope and webbing insufficient if under enough load. I consider small, oval screw links and rigid webbing (like bridges) to be marginal. That bridge webbing just needs to fold in half enough to get inside the wraps. I won't use anything marginal or worse. It is up to everyone to make their own decision, but I've brought this up several times here just to make folks aware of this.

Is that more clear?

PS For me, it seems the scaffold knot wraps do not greatly tighten to prevent this "pull through" when under pressure. For instance, I do not tighten my scaffold knot wraps by pulling on the standing end, I do that by pulling on the tag end (which is not under tension during use).

My approach to DIY is that we are playing in unknown territory so I always go towards something as strong or stronger than commercial options.
 
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kenn1320 said:
Im not a knot expert, but I believe this knot is always trying to tighten when under load. There is the potential for it to pull the webbing into the knot, which would untie it effectively.
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Hmmm. It does tighten. But I don’t see how the stiff linemans loop could pull into the knot. Thanks that gives me a better understanding of the concern.
 
raisins said:
A figure 8 isn't a slip knot. Once tied, you can pull on it any which way and it won't move. A scaffold knot (and similar) is a slip knot. You untie it by grabbing the wraps and pulling the standing end (I hope my terminology is correct here) until the loop disappears. The only thing that keeps that from happening during use is you have something sufficiently large and sturdy inside the loop to block it from pulling through the wraps. I consider carabiners and delta screw links sufficiently large and rigid to block the scaffold from untying during use. I consider rope and webbing insufficient if under enough load. I consider small, oval screw links and rigid webbing (like bridges) to be marginal. That bridge webbing just needs to fold in half enough to get inside the wraps. I won't use anything marginal or worse. It is up to everyone to make their own decision, but I've brought this up several times here just to make folks aware of this.

Is that more clear?

PS For me, it seems the scaffold knot wraps do not greatly tighten to prevent this "pull through" when under pressure. For instance, I do not tighten my scaffold knots by pulling on the standing end, I do that by pulling on the tag end (which is not under tension during use).
Click to expand...
Yes, that clears up your point. Thank you. I pull the tag end tight, then pull the loop tight. I can see your point on flimsy strapping or webbing that is small. I have not seen any issues with this connection on the stiff and thick material of my linemans loop and I examine frequently. But maybe I should go back to the figure eight.
 
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