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Point on troubleshooting

I used to shoot a lot of gap. Nocking point to me was as really about how the arrow interacts with the shelf and there is a sweet spot for each bow. Assuming you are three under because your talking about crawling and stuff 3 under typically run higher nocking points compared to split. Low nocking points can do some pretty funky stuff with how the arrow interacts with the shelf. This will be very apparent at shorter ranges before the feathers stabilize the arrow and are hard to see with naked eye. Sometimes you will actually hear the arrow smacking the shelf and get extremely high nocks in the target at shorter ranges. I personally run about 5/8s on my bows. That said I would verify through video to see how the arrow interacts with the shelf. If you are happy that is great. But like stated above, I would adjust weight of arrow and retune if I wanted to adjust my gap at further distances. When I first get a bow I tune the bow for brace and nocking and then don’t touch it after that. All other adjustments I make are strictly to the arrows and I usually don’t recommend don’t adjusting bows to make arrows work how you want them.

If you are shooting good out to 15-20 I’d just go hunting. I think @GCTerpfan and @styksnstryngs had it right though. There are no true get good quick schemes in trad archery. I liken it to a golf swing. Small changes might seem to improve things during a session but the next day and the new changes result in worse accuracy in the long run. Gap is a fine way to shoot but I wouldn’t worry about 25 yards too much. Don’t make too many changes too quickly, and don’t change more than one thing at a time. Realistically my setup hasn’t changed in over 2 years now.
Good luck
Well, there is the option of putting on a sight, but most people seem to be averse to that for some reason. Personally, I feel like if you're going that far to chase a setup that makes it so you basically are aiming at the same spot from 5 to 20 yards, you might as well put on a sight and save yourself the trouble, but then again if you want to fit your own definition of "trad" that might not be what you want.
 
Well, there is the option of putting on a sight, but most people seem to be averse to that for some reason. Personally, I feel like if you're going that far to chase a setup that makes it so you basically are aiming at the same spot from 5 to 20 yards, you might as well put on a sight and save yourself the trouble, but then again if you want to fit your own definition of "trad" that might not be what you want.
Agreed. I no longer gap. I found that focused on the point I did not get to really see the arrow sink into the target (which is part of the fun to me). Some people run a sight some don’t. Some only run wood arrows (I was in the camp for a while). Archery is about what works for you I suppose. I’m not going to judge anyone for putting a sight on a bow, but I also won’t be joining you.

The other reason I don’t run gap anymore, you assume that your ability to estimate your range is pretty spot on. I also rarely pace out my shots, unless I hit something or make an excellent shot and want to know after the shot is made.
 
I think I have pretty decent form from setting my clicker to go off when I hit max back tension and so that is why I even started beginning messing with this stuff, but I agree anyway.

If you are interested, I was able to get the results I wanted today and it seemed to be a combination of:
-Lowered nock height
-switched to 100 grain tip
-moved my crawl by shooting at 5/10/15/20 and it ended up being like a 23 yard crawl. But I arrived there by shooting the shorter distances rather than picking 23 as my number.

The blue circle is my point on. The red circle is where my group was when I opened the thread, being generous. It was pretty high. Anyway I feel like this is a good setup to continue practicing without having to drastically mix things up later this summer.

9437ec7acd38ebabf4525a1c75fe7d7b.jpg



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I would love to have an 8-10" gap at hunting ranges. Mine is usually closer to 20-22" with my set ups.

I recommend that you just keep hammering that target and don't change a thing until you start bust'n nocks on your arrows at your hunting ranges.
(BTW, when your set up is right and you start bust'n nocks you will not want to change anything...)
 
Thanks for the input guys. The sight is out for me. One of the perceived benefits of switching to a recurve for me will be less moving parts. It is completely my fault but I hit a nice buck very low this November and was unable to recover it. It turns out my sight was hitting 6” low at 20 just a week after perfectly 10 ringing a doe. Again that’s on me for not verifying my setup more frequently in-season.

I am not looking for short cuts or to shoot deer at 25 yards, just exploring the options of shooting a trad bow. I am excited to put the work in and use it this fall.
 
Thanks for the input guys. The sight is out for me. One of the perceived benefits of switching to a recurve for me will be less moving parts. It is completely my fault but I hit a nice buck very low this November and was unable to recover it. It turns out my sight was hitting 6” low at 20 just a week after perfectly 10 ringing a doe. Again that’s on me for not verifying my setup more frequently in-season.

I am not looking for short cuts or to shoot deer at 25 yards, just exploring the options of shooting a trad bow. I am excited to put the work in and use it this fall.
Sounds good buddy. Pm and/or call me if you have any questions. I’m not a deer hunting expert, but I shoot trad.
 
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If you are shooting a short bow and don't want to crawl down the string, you could also put a marker on your bow's riser to depict your 20-25 yard gap. Thin strips of tape are great and non permanent.

This won't decrease your gap (your goal) but after shooting with this primitive sight reference for a while you may find out that a larger gap is not all that 'bad', it is just easier to replicate smaller gaps on targets or game.
THIS

I had trouble with the gap. my little height reference has made a world of difference. it floats in my peripheral vision off to the right, and up close, it is just under the target height, from 10-25 yards it is near dead on, and then at 30 (for target shooting at 30) i use the point... some people dont like a "sight" on a trad bow, but a little mark on the riser doesnt offend me at all, especially since I can shoot as good as I ever have with this set up.
 
Thanks for the input guys. The sight is out for me. One of the perceived benefits of switching to a recurve for me will be less moving parts. It is completely my fault but I hit a nice buck very low this November and was unable to recover it. It turns out my sight was hitting 6” low at 20 just a week after perfectly 10 ringing a doe. Again that’s on me for not verifying my setup more frequently in-season.

I am not looking for short cuts or to shoot deer at 25 yards, just exploring the options of shooting a trad bow. I am excited to put the work in and use it this fall.
Your call and I wish you all the best luck in the world, but just to clarify - a sight mark on your riser is just a point of reference because you focus will still be on the target you want to hit. Truth be told, it is the same as gap shooting which you said you had some success with in your first post. Your gap is exactly the same as a sight mark on your riser, but instead of a thin strip of white electrical tape your reference is the arrow tip under your intended target; your focus remains on the target and you 'see' the reference mark be it your arrow tip or something else. (some guys use a higher-than-normal strike plate which is also limited in most competitions for this very reason)

There is nothing in it for me whether you shoot with a dedicated gap or if you take the guess work out of gapping with a mark on your riser. Is it effective? Try to enter a sanctioned 3d shoot with a mark on your riser! Plenty of 'leagues' will make folks with figure-grained wooden risers cover it with tape so they can't use the wood grain as a reference.

I hope this post doesn't come across as me pushing one method over another (not my intent at all), rather I just wanted to include this for you to consider or for folks who know to use the search function look for a similar solution as you are in the future.

Gap or use a mark consistently and it becomes...instinctive! (hahaha)
 
Ohh when I say I don’t want to use a sight I mean a mechanical device affixed to the riser. I have already started playing around with a piece of masking tape on my riser and making tick marks with a pen (basically what you have suggested). I do like this so far because having 3 under just below the arrow feels like a cleaner/quieter release to me as compared to walking down the string. If this is something I’ll stick with long term I will remove the tape a put some better reference points on my riser. Great suggestion!
 
Ohh when I say I don’t want to use a sight I mean a mechanical device affixed to the riser. I have already started playing around with a piece of masking tape on my riser and making tick marks with a pen (basically what you have suggested). I do like this so far because having 3 under just below the arrow feels like a cleaner/quieter release to me as compared to walking down the string. If this is something I’ll stick with long term I will remove the tape a put some better reference points on my riser. Great suggestion!

I shoot 3 under. Here are two pictures of what I am talking about. One is of a Bear WARF(ed) riser, the other is a SF riser.
The bottom mark is my sight gap reference for 20 yards, the top two marks are part of a rangefinder system. (look up Dead On Rangefinder, it is the exact same concept but redneckerized because I am not what you'd call a purist)
warf riser.jpgSF riser.jpg
 
Realistically I’d only need one mark for 20 and I guess you could make it thick enough of a mark that you can peripherally line it up to the deers body. I’m definitely going to play around with that.
 
Realistically I’d only need one mark for 20 and I guess you could make it thick enough of a mark that you can peripherally line it up to the deers body. I’m definitely going to play around with that.

one mark works for me. jimmy blackmon has a video about it and how to set it up and why... I struggled til i gave in and put a mark on there. I use white out, leave a little dot (if the riser is dark colored), but if the riser is lighter wood, I put a piece of freezer tape on there a a little black sharpie mark for the right elevation, 15-25 yards. im shooting either a 45 lb hoyt gamemaster 2, or my new to me big stick assassin. 50 lb. they basically shoot the same for me.
 
That assassin looks awesome man. I really like the gremlin too.

im liking it real well so far... i would have scored with her the first night i took it out, but the buck was in the thicket, and my "thought it was clear" shot wasnt as clear as i thought... hit a twig. the buck would have been my largest so far, 16-17 wide and long tines, nice mass... im still reliving and kicking myself over that one.
 
That seems very low hold for 3 under. Where is the anchor point. If you anchor at the corner of the mouth with your index finger change it to the middle finger it will shorten your point on. I also use a full light arrow.
 
I actually did switch to middle finger a couple weeks ago and love it. I also found that I like my thumb laying flush on my face near my eye instead of tucked into my jaw bone. I got a hold of masters of the barebow vol 3 and got so much useful info. My shot has improved greatly in just a few weeks after following that advice.
 
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