Poll: do you check strangers cameras on public land?

[Nutterbuster]

This test has a lot of vagueness and holes in it in my opinion. I’m big on the ask good questions get good answers. I think these questions are no good, so I think most of the answers you’ll get are no good. Most of the questions are unclear what your are voting on the morality of since it has many one person did this, one person responded by doing this, type questions. You could answer to the morality of the first person or the second. Next, most of the questions have very little to do with morality in my mind and more or less a question of whether or not the thing is prudent or not.

Oh yeah, the test on the site is I think more for public amusement and introducing the idea to the masses. Too short to do what it's supposed to do for starters. He's got books out that seem to imply the tests are usually done with an interviewer and that they've got a longer list to work with.

Although, the fact that it made you separate morality from prudence or that you felt the questions weren't obviously moral or immoral may say something about how you construct your morality!

 

[gcr0003]

Oh yeah, the test on the site is I think more for public amusement and introducing the idea to the masses. Too short to do what it's supposed to do for starters. He's got books out that seem to imply the tests are usually done with an interviewer and that they've got a longer list to work with.

Although, the fact that it made you separate morality from prudence or that you felt the questions weren't obviously moral or immoral may say something about how you construct your morality!

Fair enough, I’d concede that.

 

[raisins]

From a practical perspective, I don't think you can ever guarantee that you messing with a camera (checking, deleting your pic, etc) will go undetected. In fact, the pictures you delete are probably still there if they do a scan of deleted files with free software like Recuva. I bought a "new" hard drive once and scanned it and found it was previously owned and then reformatted it. I just don't want to court that sort of negativity towards me when I'm in the woods by myself.

 

[Jammintree]

Oh yeah, the test on the site is I think more for public amusement and introducing the idea to the masses.

I just took the test and found it vague. I often felt my response was: it depends…

It would be hard to overlay the test results with this poll as the analysis of the test results seem to be on a 3d spectrum, so to speak.

@Nutterbuster i do see what you are inquiring about and I also find it intriguing.

 

[philsanchez76]

Jammintree some of us just seem comfortable living in the gray areas. Hahaha. I honestly don't think it makes one any less moral for being comfortable in these areas. Now, if we have nothing but gray areas in our lives, then maybe something different there.

 

[TK161BOONER]

But why would someone dig through your truck and not take anything? Obviously they didn’t find something worth taking or they never would have rummaged thought your stuff.
Think about it why would someone do that? So in that aspect, they are looking to steal.

Another thing to consider, when a camera is left overnight on public land and it’s a cell camera it is NOT unattended .
The owner is paying for the camera to send him intel so I would argue that that camera is NOT abandoned, and when someone opens a camera and looks or downloads pics they are stealing your Intel from that camera.
The purpose of a trail camera that you payed for the batteries, SD cards, camera, fuel and transportation to hang that cell camera is for you , not for some looser to steal that information you worked hard for.

Hey China isn’t stealing anything from American except intelligence…so if you steal intelligence from a camera you are a thief.

Why do people think that robbing a bank is the only thing that makes them a thief?
It doesn’t matter the value, if you take something that’s not yours you stole it.
Man I feel like I’m beating a dead horse lol

 

[philsanchez76]

Hey China isn’t stealing anything from American except intelligence…so if you steal intelligence from a camera you are a thief.

Your argument doesn't hold true because of the strange public land nuance that "items left past 24 hours are abandoned." This nuance does not really apply anywhere else in our lives. I think that's why some are getting so fired up about it.

 

[TK161BOONER]

Your argument doesn't hold true because of the strange public land nuance that "items left past 24 hours are abandoned." This nuance does not really apply anywhere else in our lives. I think that's why some are getting so fired up about it.

We are talking about what is morally right, not what is “legal”, so why not just take the camera off the tree and keep it?

 

[NMSbowhunter]

It's a funny argument and I can see both sides of it. Here is an analogy. There is a public park in town. The park belongs to everyone. I go to Lowes and buy a seesaw and I go to the park and install the seesaw in concrete just like the seesaw's the city installed. I paid for the seesaw, I installed the seesaw, it is MINE. Since I don't live at the park, I walk away from it for a few weeks and come back and I am shocked that kids have been riding MY SEESAW. I get upset and start hanging out at the park for hours on end watching to make sure kids are not on my seesaw. I start running people off when they get too close. I have noticed other people are putting in their own seesaw's and some people are putting in Junge Gyms too. Soon the whole park is covered in seesaws and jungle gyms and angry dudes guarding their stuff. See a problem here?

This is why I think the best solution is to not allow anything to be left on public at all. Doing so eliminates the "My spot" mentality and would cut down on all this territoriality.

 

[philsanchez76]

We are talking about what is morally right, not what is “legal”, so why not just take the camera off the tree and keep it?

Funny part is i'd be within my moral rights to do that. But I don't. That's the fun part about moral gray areas I guess.

 

[Horn]

We are talking about what is morally right, not what is “legal”, so why not just take the camera off the tree and keep it?

Your morals don't govern others behavior, the law does though.

If a cell camera is always attended, no one should hunt that spot because the cell camera owner is already there. No different than sitting at the base of the tree he's hunting out of, right?

 

[TK161BOONER]

It's a funny argument and I can see both sides of it. Here is an analogy. There is a public park in town. The park belongs to everyone. I go to Lowes and buy a seesaw and I go to the park and install the seesaw in concrete just like the seesaw's the city installed. I paid for the seesaw, I installed the seesaw, it is MINE. Since I don't live at the park, I walk away from it for a few weeks and come back and I am shocked that kids have been riding MY SEESAW. I get upset and start hanging out at the park for hours on end watching to make sure kids are not on my seesaw. I start running people off when they get too close. I have noticed other people are putting in their own seesaw's and some people are putting in Junge Gyms too. Soon the whole park is covered in seesaws and jungle gyms and angry dudes guarding their stuff. See a problem here?

This is why I think the best solution is to not allow anything to be left on public at all. Doing so eliminates the "My spot" mentality and would cut down on all this territoriality.

LOL So when you walk through the woods and see a camera on public land you think it’s open to the public for anyone to use and it’s the same as a seesaw you put at a park for kids to play on ?
How are the kindergartners who can’t read or discern what their left hand and right hand is the same as a grown man who is looking at something that isn’t his? A grown man knows better, but a child doesn’t.

 

[TK161BOONER]

Funny part is i'd be within my moral rights to do that. But I don't. That's the fun part about moral gray areas I guess.

I feel bad for your family and any friends “if you have any” if you think that way.

 

[raisins]

Funny part is i'd be within my moral rights to do that. But I don't. That's the fun part about moral gray areas I guess.

Not really.

As has been stated, the law and moral rights are not the same thing.

Also, the laws are often written more conservatively than they will be enforced in order to give LEO some freedom to act within and also to simplify the law-marking process. it is assumed that LEO have common sense.

For instance, it's technically not allowed to damage anything on a WMA here. That would include snapping some multi flora rose that grabbed your clothes/pack and had you trapped. You'd have to stand there until you figured out a way to get out without snapping a single branch. But I don't think any LEO would enforce it in that scenario. It's also technically littering to throw a banana peel with sticker removed out the window of your vehicle when driving out in the middle of nowhere. It isn't enforced (unless the LEO wants to pull you over anyway) but it is written like that to avoid having to write extremely nuanced laws about everything on Earth that have a lot of loopholes.

I have a family member that is a horrible interstate driver. He always justifies doing something unwise by stating "what I'm doing isn't against the law".

 

[Kenbama]

This year was the first time I removed a card from a camera. Had nothing to do with what deer are in the area. The act of placing corn on public making the area illegal to hunt provoked me to remove the card. I did not like my picture over the bait\corn. After I removed the card, I regrated the act. Hindsight if I was that perturbed, I should report it or just walked away.

 

[woodsdog2]

My assumptions with this poll were based on public land only. On private I have permission to hunt, it depends on the situation and other information. One thing I do on all of my cameras is I put my full name and cell phone number on the outside. I think it prevents a lot of problems, allows the private land owner to know that nobody is secretly encroaching, and I believe it is much harder for someone to monkey with a camara when there is some personization to it. But I voted "steer clear." To me, this is like a tree stand....... someone took the time to scout this location out and hang a stand, if everything else is according to the rules etc.... leave it alone.

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

It's public, 'Treat others as you want to be treated'

I want my stuff left alone, I do the same.

I honestly can’t believe the debate has even gone past this.

 

[thedutchtouch]

This argument comes up a lot, and usually gets lost in the mud of what's legal being defined by the state, while what is moral and ethical and right gets defined by the individual. Some states have laws that specify anything left over 24 hours is abandoned. If someone leaves their crap there, they have abandoned it. I personally likely wouldn't take it, but cant yell at another guy for taking someone else's garbage out of the woods and putting it to use.

Everyone using the truck analogy is missing the fact that it's public land with something left behind, and with specific rules about how things become abandoned. Your truck parked in a parking area is not abandoned, so doesn't equate at all. if the rules say "you leave it it's a free for all", then morally, ethically, legally, it's public.

 

[raisins]

This argument comes up a lot, and usually gets lost in the mud of what's legal being defined by the state, while what is moral and ethical and right gets defined by the individual.

This isn't being lost in the mud. This is the point.

Do gov't rules and laws always define what is ethical? If so, then anyone that rebels against a tyrannical government is in the wrong.

I'm not stating that these particular laws are tyrannical, I'm just taking the general principle to its logical end.

 

[Jammintree]

This isn't being lost in the mud. This is the point.

Do gov't rules and laws always define what is ethical? If so, then anyone that rebels against a tyrannical government is in the wrong.

I'm not stating that these particular laws are tyrannical, I'm just taking the general principle to its logical end.

Law and ethics / morality are a chicken and egg circular logic, which ironically enough are often paradoxical. Ethics / morality can change very quickly and the legal / legislative process tends toward bureaucratic gradualism.

But we do have tangible and long standing laws that address leaving personal items on public property. The expectation that the public at large is all going to instantly share common values around trail cameras simply isn’t realistic.

Personally I’m still trying to figure out where I stand on trail camera use on public land. My own wrestling with the question is what inspired me to post this poll and initiate this discussion: I want to hear different perspectives on the matter to help me form an opinion. And while I don’t really know ANY of you personally, over time I’ve come to respect and value many of your perspectives and opinions, even when I don’t agree.