Poll: do you check strangers cameras on public land?

[philsanchez76]

I feel bad for your family and any friends “if you have any” if you think that way.

Man we are just discussing here. And you had to go and make it personal. Interesting that my moral code won't allow me to do that but yours will. Just shows everybody is a little different. I don't blame you in the least for believin your view and have no desire to include an insult.

 

[Nutterbuster]

Tom Holland (not the Spiderman kid) has a book called Dominion that actually touches on the modern, western, secular ethical/legal split. That bisection is really an anomaly, with most historical and current societies lacking it. It traces back to middle age Catholicism and the doctrine of religio and seculae. It's a long, but really interesting read.

 

[HuumanCreed]

I would/had stop and waved at cameras. I mark their locations on my GPS/Apps. Same as I do with found tree stand. Then I actually examine the area and try to understand why they setup in the location. Then I move away and try to stay clear. NOT worth it. Its all public land but again, just not worth it.

EDITED: after reading more posts. I will edit my response, and I'll be completely honest. If its on public land, some things are worth it and some illegal actions are worth my reactions. Example, if I happened to walk passed a setup of Beast sticks/stand or high end equipment, I would take it. Or if I see a trail camera setup over a pile of baits, I would take it.

Your illegal acts or disregard of laws/rules removed my guilt of taking your stuff. Simple as that, I can try to justify it, but it would be BS from me to you. Maryland rules is you are not allow to leave tree stand over night, if you do, then take be willing to take the risk. I have left platforms overnight between back to back all day sit, because I was confident I would be back on the tree the next day before light. Would I be completely surprised if it was stolen? Yes, but I would of accepted the outcome and actually be a little impressed that someone was able to find it in the dark. But yeah, any equipment left on public lands are free for all. But for those $40 treestand that you can find at walmart, I leave it because its not worth the hassle. I tried reporting it once but came back to same area a year later and it still there. So nothing would be done by anyone, so why bother.

In regards to cameras, I don't touch them and as a courtesy try to stay away from the area so not to disturbed the other hunter. But if they are baiting or doing other things not allowed, I feel they are removing themselves from the social contract between fellow public land hunters, so I feel no need to let them profit from their actions.

You can unfollowed me now.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

LOL So when you walk through the woods and see a camera on public land you think it’s open to the public for anyone to use and it’s the same as a seesaw you put at a park for kids to play on ?
How are the kindergartners who can’t read or discern what their left hand and right hand is the same as a grown man who is looking at something that isn’t his? A grown man knows better, but a child doesn’t.

No, I don't mess with the cameras. I see them as pressure, pure and simple. I note where they are. I then try to decide if the spot is worth hunting and devoting my time to based on the fact that someone is already pressuring that spot. If I decide to hunt it, I try to determine what time of the week, or time of the season they are there and hunt around them. I am also not careful at all with an area that has camera pressure. I have no idea what they are doing and how they hunt. I go into the spot, hunt it hard and fast and either kill what is there or run it out of the country. Same tactic I use on a permanent stand in a spot that I want to hunt. Most spots other people are hunting don't interest me. The fact that someone else is messing around in that area is one strike against it from the outset. It would have to have a lot of other things going for it.

Like I said, I run a few cameras just for inventory and let them soak for months but I am a realist and know that if I leave something out it may not be there when I get back. I accept that or don't put them out.

As far as the kindergartener analogy goes, there are not many kindergarteners left unsupervised in a park all day to play. Their mamas and daddies would know.

 

[thedutchtouch]

This isn't being lost in the mud. This is the point.

Do gov't rules and laws always define what is ethical? If so, then anyone that rebels against a tyrannical government is in the wrong.

I'm not stating that these particular laws are tyrannical, I'm just taking the general principle to its logical end.

Well you're certainly embracing getting lost in the mud with that question lol Are we talking about personal property being left on public land here or acceptance of laws and the state in general? We can opine until our ears bleed and our thumbs/typing fingers cramp, I have in the past and likely will in the future, but in order to have a conversation about the original point, game cameras on public land, we need to agree to a certain subset of baseline assumptions. Mine are generally that we accept the laws where we live/hunt, and try to follow them, and define that as an ethical hunter. (One who tries to follow the rules). I'm not interested in a "are hunting laws ethical" debate, that's for another thread and I'm guessing you'll get plenty of interaction from @kyler1945 and @Nutterbuster and people who have strong game camera opinions.

If we accept that ethics generally define that we follow the law, and the law clearly states that game cameras are considered abandoned, much like stands can be used by anyone that finds them, then there's not much debate to be had.

People can add additional ethical or moral boundaries on top of those defined by law, but generally we don't accept personal ethics as an excuse for breaking the law. I maintain that legally, and therefore ethically, taking a camera off a tree in public land is no different than picking up trash by the book. My personal ethics still prevent me from taking them, but it's just that, personal. Generally my ethical stance is follow the law and do you.


Edited to add-:year 1 of hunting I reported stands to DNR on the regular thinking something would happen, nothing happened, I now somewhat better understand their resources and why. Year 2 I started marking stand locations but not reporting just "pattern the hunters". in year 3 it hasn't factored in to kills yet but it might some day. I also get the feeling that I'm convoluting historical hunter sign with current season sign.

 

[Rutman]

In Minnesota it is illegal to leave a camera up on public land overnight. I follow this law but it seems most others do not. I find cameras all over much of the public I hunt. When I find a camera I mark the spot and then share the information with the appropriate game warden.

I know the game wardens go out and retrieve the cameras as I have had them follow up with me and thank me. I do not feel bad about this because the people that leave their cameras on public choose to break the law. I use cameras but only on private land.

I posted this as "Call the appropriate authority" was not an option.

You’re probably the same guy that drives the speed limit in the fast lane…


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[thedutchtouch]

@HuumanCreed sounds like we need to meet up and go on some abandoned stand collection and parking lot dumping missions this summer. Figure we email DNR beforehand and make a get together out of it, Maryland saddle scrappers, what do you say? I've got a hawk crawler cart I'd haul out and could fit a few on it. Middle of summer will guarantee it's abandoned and decrease the likelihood the owner comes out to start trouble, and leaving whatever we find in the lot negates the ",you're stealing someone else's trash" argument. We can discuss in person any high end equipment and how it should be... Set down separately. Lol that'll raise some ethical eyebrows.

 

[thedutchtouch]

You’re probably the same guy that drives the speed limit in the fast lane…


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Amazing that following the law (instead of breaking it like the rest of us do) can become a disparaging statement.


For the eventual "that's not following the law"... Well yes, it is, we don't have enough information to determine if the attempt to pass that got them into that lane is still in progress or if they should keep right.

 

[Jammintree]

@HuumanCreed sounds like we need to meet up and go on some abandoned stand collection and parking lot dumping missions this summer. Figure we email DNR beforehand and make a get together out of it, Maryland saddle scrappers, what do you say? I've got a hawk crawler cart I'd haul out and could fit a few on it. Middle of summer will guarantee it's abandoned and decrease the likelihood the owner comes out to start trouble, and leaving whatever we find in the lot negates the ",you're stealing someone else's trash" argument. We can discuss in person any high end equipment and how it should be... Set down separately. Lol that'll raise some ethical eyebrows.

I’d volunteer to be on this crew and would organize a chapter to do the same in my home neighborhood. You’re all invited. I can think of a couple dozen stands whose ratchet straps have either disintegrated or have been absorbed by the trees cambium.

 

[thedutchtouch]

I’d volunteer to be on this crew and would organize a chapter to do the same in my home neighborhood. You’re all invited. I can think of a couple dozen stands whose ratchet straps have either disintegrated or have been absorbed by the trees cambium.

I'm pretty sure @HuumanCreed is also in Maryland, I thought you were down south somewhere? Perhaps we'll have regu.ional meetings, let's start throwing out dates. Mid July, celebrate our freedom by cleaning up some public land?

 

[Jammintree]

I'm pretty sure @HuumanCreed is also in Maryland, I thought you were down south somewhere? Perhaps we'll have regu.ional meetings, let's start throwing out dates. Mid July, celebrate our freedom by cleaning up some public land?

I’m in western mass.

 

[DroptineKrazy]

"Public" land. Hmmm! Seems to me if I'm out in "public" walking down a sidewalk then it is perfectly fine for you to film me or to "take" my picture so why is it wrong to "take" the pics off of a camera on "public"? Have never done it myself but was just wondering.

 

[thedutchtouch]

I’m in western mass.

Well that's certainly not south, but still not Maryland lol. You can run the New England chapter.

 

[Jammintree]

I don't understand your post s

Well that's certainly not south, but still not Maryland lol. You can run the New England chapter.

We could start a treestand museum

 

[DeadHeadSpread]

Morals don’t kill big bucks. Do unto others as you would never want them to do unto you. The law only matters if you get caught. Steal anything you want, even if you’re not going to use it. Do everything you can to sabotage the other hunters. Moth balls spread around a treestand works wonders. Follow them to their treestand. Blow through bedding areas and chase the deer away from their stand. Flatten their tires with a pretzel stick, that’ll teach them they’re in the wrong area. Spray fox urine on their door handle. Put a dead skunk in the bed of their truck. Only the ruthless remain. Go get that buck!

Actually, I treat other guys stuff on public land with the utmost respect. Even if I can legally touch their camera, I’m not going to. Even if their stand is there after it should have been removed according to the law, I don’t mess with it. Only time I ever messed with something is someone had a mineral block 20 yards from their ladder stand, illegally. I thought you pathetic turd, get a life, and I threw the mineral block into a beaver pond. I woulda done it even if the guy was sitting in his stand at the time.

If you legally view my card, put it back unaltered and don’t mess up my cam, well I guess touché to you, enjoy the pics.

 

[DeadHeadSpread]

Not gonna lie, that’s pretty lame. Obviously no one is perfect but that just not right. That’s literally wasting someone else hard ended time off in the woods. Kinda makes me wonder what else shady he does in the sense.

I remember that video. Ironically, the guy he was messing with was a trail cam thief according to what Dan Infalt said in the video. If someone stole one or more of my cams and I knew who it was, I would likely do worse.

 

[thedutchtouch]

Morals don’t kill big bucks. Do unto others as you would never want them to do unto you. The law only matters if you get caught. Steal anything you want, even if you’re not going to use it. Do everything you can to sabotage the other hunters. Moth balls spread around a treestand works wonders. Follow them to their treestand. Blow through bedding areas and chase the deer away from their stand. Flatten their tires with a pretzel stick, that’ll teach them they’re in the wrong area. Spray fox urine on their door handle. Put a dead skunk in the bed of their truck. Only the ruthless remain. Go get that buck!

Actually, I treat other guys stuff on public land with the utmost respect. Even if I can legally touch their camera, I’m not going to. Even if their stand is there after it should have been removed according to the law, I don’t mess with it. Only time I ever messed with something is someone had a mineral block 20 yards from their ladder stand, illegally. I thought you pathetic turd, get a life, and I threw the mineral block into a beaver pond. I woulda done it even if the guy was sitting in his stand at the time.

If you legally view my card, put it back unaltered and don’t mess up my cam, well I guess touché to you, enjoy the pics.

There is a very large difference between advocating an off season stand removal and the various forms of sabotage, pretty much all of which are illegal due to hunter harassment or animal carcass disposal laws etc. It's relatively annoying to keep drawing that distinction. Finding a stand in July on public is the same as finding a beer can or a bottle during season.

To be very clear: during season, I am not touching anyone's stuff, though legally/morally/ethically I could, I just don't want to risk a confrontation with a nonethical person if they "catch me" and have an issue with it. There is no way a stand with rotting straps that's up in July is anything other than an abandoned, likely worthless stand.

But in reality we've also gotten WAY off topic, the original question was do you look at photos on people's cameras. I haven't done that either yet, mainly because I never have a card reader on me. Ethically I don't believe I am taking anything from anyone by looking at a photo. Camera is still there, photo is too, I didn't take anything. Touched, interacted with for sure but that's not illegal/unethical in my opinion. I apply the same ethics when I visit a museum or walk down the street, if my eyes can see it it's not theft. Touching someone's garbage (in the form of an "abandoned" camera) in order to see the digital images within furthermore doesn't constitute theft to me. That's the act in question here, when does looking at photos on a device abandoned on public land become unethical, or why do so many of you over-extend your own ethics to protect the unethical hunter?

Let's take me as that unethical hunter- I run two cameras, they've been out for months. Let's assume for this argument that they are on public land. I know I'm not supposed to leave stuff in the woods overnight, but choose to anyway, that's not an ethical decision. Why do I deserve your ethics to steer clear of my garbage? (I believe this is the point @HuumanCreed is trying to make, just stronger/in a different way that's ruffling some feathers).

Are all of you going to tell me you close your eyes when you see a wma name or unit number mentioned? Or that you look away when you think you recognize landmarks in a photo online? Give me a break, it's a camera left sitting in the woods illegally. If I found a camera in a bar, I'd give it to the bartender. Odds are the very first thing they do? Look at the photos to try to see if they can identify a customer.

The rambling has begun, that's enough for now

 

[Horn]

There is a very large difference between advocating an off season stand removal and the various forms of sabotage, pretty much all of which are illegal due to hunter harassment or animal carcass disposal laws etc. It's relatively annoying to keep drawing that distinction. Finding a stand in July on public is the same as finding a beer can or a bottle during season.

To be very clear: during season, I am not touching anyone's stuff, though legally/morally/ethically I could, I just don't want to risk a confrontation with a nonethical person if they "catch me" and have an issue with it. There is no way a stand with rotting straps that's up in July is anything other than an abandoned, likely worthless stand.

But in reality we've also gotten WAY off topic, the original question was do you look at photos on people's cameras. I haven't done that either yet, mainly because I never have a card reader on me. Ethically I don't believe I am taking anything from anyone by looking at a photo. Camera is still there, photo is too, I didn't take anything. Touched, interacted with for sure but that's not illegal/unethical in my opinion. I apply the same ethics when I visit a museum or walk down the street, if my eyes can see it it's not theft. Touching someone's garbage (in the form of an "abandoned" camera) in order to see the digital images within furthermore doesn't constitute theft to me. That's the act in question here, when does looking at photos on a device abandoned on public land become unethical, or why do so many of you over-extend your own ethics to protect the unethical hunter?

Let's take me as that unethical hunter- I run two cameras, they've been out for months. Let's assume for this argument that they are on public land. I know I'm not supposed to leave stuff in the woods overnight, but choose to anyway, that's not an ethical decision. Why do I deserve your ethics to steer clear of my garbage? (I believe this is the point @HuumanCreed is trying to make, just stronger/in a different way that's ruffling some feathers).

Are all of you going to tell me you close your eyes when you see a wma name or unit number mentioned? Or that you look away when you think you recognize landmarks in a photo online? Give me a break, it's a camera left sitting in the woods illegally. If I found a camera in a bar, I'd give it to the bartender. Odds are the very first thing they do? Look at the photos to try to see if they can identify a customer.

The rambling has begun, that's enough for now

I think you're doing a fine job of making points and comparisons.
You're a lot better at words than I am!

Also unrelated to you Dutch.

@TK161BOONER, still curious if your cell cam, that isn't abandoned because it remotely sends you pictures lays claim to a spot. Is it attended or not? My raised shoot house identifies as a camera, therefore it's somehow still my private property even when I left it unattended on public land right?

 

[DeadHeadSpread]

There is a very large difference between advocating an off season stand removal and the various forms of sabotage, pretty much all of which are illegal due to hunter harassment or animal carcass disposal laws etc. It's relatively annoying to keep drawing that distinction. Finding a stand in July on public is the same as finding a beer can or a bottle during season.

To be very clear: during season, I am not touching anyone's stuff, though legally/morally/ethically I could, I just don't want to risk a confrontation with a nonethical person if they "catch me" and have an issue with it. There is no way a stand with rotting straps that's up in July is anything other than an abandoned, likely worthless stand.

But in reality we've also gotten WAY off topic, the original question was do you look at photos on people's cameras. I haven't done that either yet, mainly because I never have a card reader on me. Ethically I don't believe I am taking anything from anyone by looking at a photo. Camera is still there, photo is too, I didn't take anything. Touched, interacted with for sure but that's not illegal/unethical in my opinion. I apply the same ethics when I visit a museum or walk down the street, if my eyes can see it it's not theft. Touching someone's garbage (in the form of an "abandoned" camera) in order to see the digital images within furthermore doesn't constitute theft to me. That's the act in question here, when does looking at photos on a device abandoned on public land become unethical, or why do so many of you over-extend your own ethics to protect the unethical hunter?

Let's take me as that unethical hunter- I run two cameras, they've been out for months. Let's assume for this argument that they are on public land. I know I'm not supposed to leave stuff in the woods overnight, but choose to anyway, that's not an ethical decision. Why do I deserve your ethics to steer clear of my garbage? (I believe this is the point @HuumanCreed is trying to make, just stronger/in a different way that's ruffling some feathers).

Are all of you going to tell me you close your eyes when you see a wma name or unit number mentioned? Or that you look away when you think you recognize landmarks in a photo online? Give me a break, it's a camera left sitting in the woods illegally. If I found a camera in a bar, I'd give it to the bartender. Odds are the very first thing they do? Look at the photos to try to see if they can identify a customer.

The rambling has begun, that's enough for now

Thanks for the sermon dude. Lucky for me I live in PA and my trail cams can legally remain on public land 24/7/365 and not be considered “abandoned”, so the ethically challenged can’t equate them to trash to justify messing around with them.

 

[TK161BOONER]

I think you're doing a fine job of making points and comparisons.
You're a lot better at words than I am!

Also unrelated to you Dutch.

@TK161BOONER, still curious if your cell cam, that isn't abandoned because it remotely sends you pictures lays claim to a spot. Is it attended or not? My raised shoot house identifies as a camera, therefore it's somehow still my private property even when I left it unattended on public land right?

No.
I had a guy sit 45 yards away from me one year on public land when I shot a 160” buck during gun season, I didn’t have the right to tell him to leave its public land , just because my camera is in a location anyone can hunt that spot it’s “public land” but it IS NOT A PUBLIC CELL CAMERA … sorry you have a hard time understanding.
Also I don’t hunt over my cameras , they are just there to let me know what deer are in that area.
I have my cell cameras set up in two locations, one area is 7.45 hours from my house and the other is 11.50 hours, so when someone tampers with my camera I have to make a 7.45 hour or 11.50 hour one way trip to fix my cameras.