Potential failure mode when using Safeguard with ropes less than 9mm.

[Spartan]

Was climbing this evening and on my last move went to cinch up my safeguard. Felt much more resistance than normal, looked down and noticed that the rope had slipped out of the cam tray and past the little stopper bar. Probably snagged on something as I made the move. Rope was Starling 8.2mm, so technically out of spec when using it like this. But I know many other people use ropes less than 8.9mm with it, so just passing it along. I tested with Canyon C-IV as well, and was able to also pull it through the gap and out of the cam tray, but it took some effort. But the Starling 8.2mm pulls through quite easily, and I did measure it as a true 8.2mm.

What would have happened if I put a sudden load on it while the rope was out of the cam tray? I dunno. Don't intend to find out. It did cam over and lock when I tested it in that mode back at the shop, but I certainly wouldn't trust that configuration to perform as expected in a real world situation.

Pic below that I took back at the shop just to illustrate what it looked like. Just passing along for others to consider as they experiment.

 

[Lowg08]

I was studying this before I bought one and rope I ended up with 9mm sterling htp. Just wanted to stay within manufacturer specifications

 

[CZMark]

I posted the same thing about a year ago, that's the reason I now use 9mm rope.

See post #12 in the attached thread.

Madrock Safegaurd and Oplux rope?

I’m sure this has been covered but I want my own thread dedicated to the topic. Lol Who is using Oplux with the Safeguard? I realize it’s not rated correctly. Anyone had any negative results? Anyone backing the Safeguard up on this rope With an Auto-block when rapelleing?

saddlehunter.com

 

[MNFarmHunter]

This is why I use an “8” with my Resc-Tech. A safeguard is fine with C-IV.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[heretic]

Not sure about dynamic rope but specifically discussing failure modes of static 8mm rope (resc tech/oplux) I would be more concerned over using the safeguard as a fall arrest device than I would be about being 0.1mm out of spec (emphasis on the left):

 

[Nchunter1989]

Was climbing this evening and on my last move went to cinch up my safeguard. Felt much more resistance than normal, looked down and noticed that the rope had slipped out of the cam tray and past the little stopper bar. Probably snagged on something as I made the move. Rope was Starling 8.2mm, so technically out of spec when using it like this. But I know many other people use ropes less than 8.9mm with it, so just passing it along. I tested with Canyon C-IV as well, and was able to also pull it through the gap and out of the cam tray, but it took some effort. But the Starling 8.2mm pulls through quite easily, and I did measure it as a true 8.2mm.

What would have happened if I put a sudden load on it while the rope was out of the cam tray? I dunno. Don't intend to find out. It did cam over and lock when I tested it in that mode back at the shop, but I certainly wouldn't trust that configuration to perform as expected in a real world situation.

Pic below that I took back at the shop just to illustrate what it looked like. Just passing along for others to consider as they experiment.


View attachment 66898

I would reach out to Madrock & get their input.

Use what makes you comfortable, but just to be clear & cutdown on mis information- 8.1 IS the minimum spec for single rope/single climber use. At least as of late 2021-early 2022. If anyone has received any different information from Madrock, please let me know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Spartan]

I would reach out to Madrock & get their input.

Use what makes you comfortable, but just to be clear & cutdown on mis information- 8.1 IS the minimum spec for single rope/single climber use. At least as of late 2021-early 2022. If anyone has received any different information from Madrock, please let me know.

Specs from the Mad Rock website:

For rescue / rigging use: 8.1mm to 11mm rope diameter
For climbing use: 8.9mm to 11mm rope diameter

The way I interpret it is what I am doing when one-sticking is climbing, since I am both ascending and at times introducing some slack into the rope as I climb. When it comes to one-stick climbing, it is quite close to lead-climbing, IMO. So not rescue or rigging. So, for me, I apply the 8.9mm to 11mm spec (but as I mentioned, I was knowingly operating out of that spec while testing ropes). With that said, if a person was not one-stick cimbing with the Safeguard, and only installing their Safeguard to hold them at hunting height and to then rappel, then I would consider that to be the "rigging" use, and acceptable for 8.1mm to 11mm rope diameter. Just my opinion and interpretations of the specs.

And to be honest, that was the main reason for posting this and passing it on. Because I know that many people are using Safeguards for climbing in the same way as I am, and using ropes less than 8.9mm, even as low as 8.0mm. Many of those people cite the 8.1mm rigging spec as meaning they are operating it in spec, but I think that is an inaccurate application of the two different specs for how we are using the Safeguards.

 

[Nchunter1989]

Specs from the Mad Rock website:

For rescue / rigging use: 8.1mm to 11mm rope diameter
For climbing use: 8.9mm to 11mm rope diameter

The way I interpret it is what I am doing when one-sticking is climbing, since I am both ascending and at times introducing some slack into the rope as I climb. When it comes to one-stick climbing, it is quite close to lead-climbing, IMO. So not rescue or rigging. So, for me, I apply the 8.9mm to 11mm spec (but as I mentioned, I was knowingly operating out of that spec while testing ropes). With that said, if a person was not one-stick cimbing with the Safeguard, and only installing their Safeguard to hold them at hunting height and to then rappel, then I would consider that to be the "rigging" use, and acceptable for 8.1mm to 11mm rope diameter. Just my opinion and interpretations of the specs.

And to be honest, that was the main reason for posting this and passing it on. Because I know that many people are using Safeguards for climbing in the same way as I am, and using ropes less than 8.9mm, even as low as 8.0mm. Many of those people cite the 8.1mm rigging spec as meaning they are operating it in spec, but I think that is an inaccurate application of the two different specs for how we are using the Safeguards.

No, actually Madrocks interpretation of “climbing” is when the device is being using for multiple person belaying. I can dig up the email I received from them & posted several months ago.

Per Madrock, our use falls under rescue/rigging/specialty: Single person ascent/decent & at height stationary.

There’s been quite a few personal interpretations, and no one had ever actually talked to Madrock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Spartan]

No, actually Madrocks interpretation of “climbing” is when the device is being using for multiple person belaying. I can dig up the email I received from them & posted several months ago.

Per Madrock, our use falls under rescue/rigging/specialty: Single person ascent/decent & at height stationary.

There’s been quite a few personal interpretations, and no one had ever actually talked to Madrock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Interesting. Good to know.

 

[Nchunter1989]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro