Rappel Process

[boyne bowhunter]

I agree, being securely anchored to the tree at all times is critical to safety and I believe rappelling should be the safest way down (besides being fun) but I also feel a need to post a reminder that anytime we leave the ground there is risk involved. It's not just a climbing stick vs rope climbing issue. Everyone needs to be aware of their limitations and experience and use the method they are most familiar/comfortable with to avoid getting themselves in trouble. If that's climbing with sticks (while properly tied in) so be it.

My concern would be that someone unfamiliar reads some of these threads and makes the incorrect assumption that just switching to rope climbing and/or rappelling automatically assures a safe ascension/descension to and from the canopy. Unfortunately that is not the case. The tragic and unfortunate event described in a previous thread here should always serve as reminder to stay within our own means and limitations. I would suggest being thoroughly familiar and comfortable with any new process before taking it on. Also, always learn new things with your feet solidly on the ground.

Saddle Death… Stay safe out there.

I ran across this on the JRB Facebook group. It’s a somber reminder for everyone. Always prepare for worse case scenario’s and stay safe this season. Condolences to his family and friends.

saddlehunter.com

 

[John RB]

I agree, being securely anchored to the tree at all times is critical to safety and I believe rappelling should be the safest way down (besides being fun) but I also feel a need to post a reminder that anytime we leave the ground there is risk involved. It's not just a climbing stick vs rope climbing issue. Everyone needs to be aware of their limitations and experience and use the method they are most familiar/comfortable with to avoid getting themselves in trouble. If that's climbing with sticks (while properly tied in) so be it.

My concern would be that someone unfamiliar reads some of these threads and makes the incorrect assumption that just switching to rope climbing and/or rappelling automatically assures a safe ascension/descension to and from the canopy. Unfortunately that is not the case. The tragic and unfortunate event described in a previous thread here should always serve as reminder to stay within our own means and limitations. I would suggest being thoroughly familiar and comfortable with any new process before taking it on. Also, always learn new things with your feet solidly on the ground.

Saddle Death… Stay safe out there.

I ran across this on the JRB Facebook group. It’s a somber reminder for everyone. Always prepare for worse case scenario’s and stay safe this season. Condolences to his family and friends.

saddlehunter.com

All the details of that accident aren't known. But what is known is that he was on a tether, not a climbing rope. His rope didn't reach the ground. On the ground under him was a rope, presumed to be a rappel rope, and a vest with a figure 8 rappel device and some other stuff, not adequately described to know if it was a platform or a stick. A rope climber would have had a rope in the tree, not a tether. The presumption is that he was one stick climbing and lost his stick, then dropped his stuff. He was on a brand new "saddle" which was really just 2 straps under his thighs. In a loss of footing scenario, we can go unconscious in less than 30 minutes and that's what happened. Autopsy showed no evidence of a cardiac or stroke event. Lots of lessons here: he was tied in, but didn't have an escape plan. He didn't have a real saddle. That lessened his time. He didn't have cell reception or a spotter while experimenting alone in a remote area. (He wasn't hunting.) He didn't have a knife. He didn't have a drop proof system.

Personally, I will never use a tether. I am always on a rope, minimum slack, rappel ready.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, w/JRB15 Coupon at ApeCanyon.com

 

[Ballshooter]

Wow just saw this..so glad I changed this year to a reppel line and have been practicing self rescue from John's videos. One thing that strikes me as odd is that he was found buy a squirrel hunter and was near unconscious only 6 feet off the ground so why didn't the hunter shoot his tether to release him?

 

[John RB]

Wow just saw this..so glad I changed this year to a reppel line and have been practicing self rescue from John's videos. One thing that strikes me as odd is that he was found buy a squirrel hunter and was near unconscious only 6 feet off the ground so why didn't the hunter shoot his tether to release him?

He tried. He had a .22. I am not sure how easy it is to hit a half inch rope 6ft over us and not endanger the guy who is trying to stay conscious while on it, nor how many shots it takes to break it. But I'm sure it's harder than it sounds.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, w/JRB15 Coupon at ApeCanyon.com

 

[Cbigbear]

A useful number could probably be derived from injuries from the arborist industry if you excluded things like chainsaws, gaffs, etc.

It may ballpark you, but in the tree business guys are in/on their gear daily. So you would have to take a ratio of daily usage vs accidents. In my yrs in the tree business the only accidents I witness were user error.

Now on the hunting side you have guys that most likely touch their gear 2-3 mths out the yr at most. You would think this would limit accidents, but on the flip side you have limited experience which may lead to greater user error.

 

[Horn]

All the details of that accident aren't known. But what is known is that he was on a tether, not a climbing rope. His rope didn't reach the ground. On the ground under him was a rope, presumed to be a rappel rope, and a vest with a figure 8 rappel device and some other stuff, not adequately described to know if it was a platform or a stick. A rope climber would have had a rope in the tree, not a tether. The presumption is that he was one stick climbing and lost his stick, then dropped his stuff. He was on a brand new "saddle" which was really just 2 straps under his thighs. In a loss of footing scenario, we can go unconscious in less than 30 minutes and that's what happened. Autopsy showed no evidence of a cardiac or stroke event. Lots of lessons here: he was tied in, but didn't have an escape plan. He didn't have a real saddle. That lessened his time. He didn't have cell reception or a spotter while experimenting alone in a remote area. (He wasn't hunting.) He didn't have a knife. He didn't have a drop proof system.

Personally, I will never use a tether. I am always on a rope, minimum slack, rappel ready.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, w/JRB15 Coupon at ApeCanyon.com

How would a "real sadde" have helped? No climbers outside of hunting and occasionally caynoneering have the backside support and that's more of a slide protection that support. All other disciplines is a rock climbing style harness, and usually with a belay loop, not a bridge.

 

[John RB]

How would a "real sadde" have helped? No climbers outside of hunting and occasionally caynoneering have the backside support and that's more of a slide protection that support. All other disciplines is a rock climbing style harness, and usually with a belay loop, not a bridge.

Good question. Attach yourself to a tree and see how long you can sit in a saddle with nothing under your feet. Then try it in a Rock climbing harness or anything with just 2 straps. You'll find out that Blood flow and comfort increase with the surface area of the body absorbing the load. The saddle used in this accident had just two small straps. They appeared to only be 1.5" wide. He had no way to get weight on his feet. A modern fall arrest harness comes with a suspension relief strap. But many haven't actually tested it. Many don't realize they need to wait for a rescue. Many don't consider the need for cell reception. Or that their phone can't be out of reach. And a few guys i personally know weren't even bringing the strap because they didn't understand how or why its used. I also have no use for a Fall Arrest Harness. I must always be able to self rescue. If a platform or treestand or ANYTHING my feet are on were to disappear, that's never gonna endanger me seriously.

I am trying to reply with facts. Lotta smart folks will stop and think about it. There's always gonna be a few trolls in any forum with questionable motives. That's no problem. Trolls take jabs but never win a debate. Cheers brother.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, w/JRB15 Coupon at ApeCanyon.com

 

[boyne bowhunter]

There's always gonna be a few trolls in any forum with questionable motives. That's no problem. Trolls take jabs but never win a debate.

If you're referring to me then I suggest you re-read my post. I was just pointing out the fact that accidents can occur to anyone no matter what method they are using. Most people are better off using a method that they're very comfortable with rather than rushing to try something new.

 

[Horn]

Good question. Attach yourself to a tree and see how long you can sit in a saddle with nothing under your feet. Then try it in a Rock climbing harness or anything with just 2 straps. You'll find out that Blood flow and comfort increase with the surface area of the body absorbing the load. The saddle used in this accident had just two small straps. They appeared to only be 1.5" wide. He had no way to get weight on his feet. A modern fall arrest harness comes with a suspension relief strap. But many haven't actually tested it. Many don't realize they need to wait for a rescue. Many don't consider the need for cell reception. Or that their phone can't be out of reach. And a few guys i personally know weren't even bringing the strap because they didn't understand how or why its used. I also have no use for a Fall Arrest Harness. I must always be able to self rescue. If a platform or treestand or ANYTHING my feet are on were to disappear, that's never gonna endanger me seriously.

I am trying to reply with facts. Lotta smart folks will stop and think about it. There's always gonna be a few trolls in any forum with questionable motives. That's no problem. Trolls take jabs but never win a debate. Cheers brother.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, w/JRB15 Coupon at ApeCanyon.com

You can call me dumb in a many underhanded ways as you'd like. I'd prefer it straight forward, if it pleases you.

The victim was inverted, correct? And it was, in fact, the inversion that claimed a life? Correct? You did NOT address any of that. You certainly speak with infinite confidence. I'd like to know your certification, strictly related to rope climbing and the various other methods employed not just by hunters but the climbing and rope access and rescue communities. Not blah blah blah I know such and such. Straight up, I'm certified to teach and certify other guides or professional rescue personnel.

 

[John RB]

You can call me dumb in a many underhanded ways as you'd like. I'd prefer it straight forward, if it pleases you.

The victim was inverted, correct? And it was, in fact, the inversion that claimed a life? Correct? You did NOT address any of that. You certainly speak with infinite confidence. I'd like to know your certification, strictly related to rope climbing and the various other methods employed not just by hunters but the climbing and rope access and rescue communities. Not blah blah blah I know such and such. Straight up, I'm certified to teach and certify other guides or professional rescue personnel.

I was NOT implying you were anything less than a polite gentleman. The troll comment was just an observation of intenet behavior, not related to you, but surrounding the incident in question, that's all. Sorry if if that wasn't clear.

Autopsy said: "positional asphyxiation resulting in death". As I understand things: he went unconscious due to the lack of bloodflow, then inverted due to loss of muscle control and nothing to keep him upright, then suffocated when inverted. That's a normal sequence of events.

Here's something i found on the web:

"Inversion and positional asphyxiation cause death by impairing breathing and circulation, where the body's position—like hanging upside down—causes organs to put pressure on the diaphragm, limiting lung expansion. This restriction to breathing, known as pulmonary ventilation, coupled with blood pooling and difficulty returning blood to the heart, leads to a dangerous lack of oxygen (hypoxia), respiratory failure, and ultimately death."

Another link, note the timeline:

https://workzonesafety-media.s3.amazonaws.com/workzonesafety/files/documents/training/factheets/ARTBA_Fall_Fact_Sheet_Suspension_Trauma.pdf

JrbTreeClimbing.com, w/JRB15 Coupon at ApeCanyon.com

 

[John RB]

If you're referring to me then I suggest you re-read my post. I was just pointing out the fact that accidents can occur to anyone no matter what method they are using. Most people are better off using a method that they're very comfortable with rather than rushing to try something new.

Agree and not referring to you. Cheers

JrbTreeClimbing.com, w/JRB15 Coupon at ApeCanyon.com

 

[Horn]

I haven't thought of, or played around with any ideas, to make this work like Brockys set up for a guide atc from post #20 but I am very happy with how that's working for a single line rappel. Definitely can be refined some. Not sure both bridges are necessary, but I'm using the configuration anyway so it's okay. Less carabiners would be cool but I'm a touch under 10 pounds with everything except any extra layers so, that's fine too. I got the dog bone at REI for 12 or $15? I don't recall but if climbers will whip, I will hang lol

 

[gcr0003]

View attachment 121178
I haven't thought of, or played around with any ideas, to make this work like Brockys set up for a guide atc from post #20 but I am very happy with how that's working for a single line rappel. Definitely can be refined some. Not sure both bridges are necessary, but I'm using the configuration anyway so it's okay. Less carabiners would be cool but I'm a touch under 10 pounds with everything except any extra layers so, that's fine too. I got the dog bone at REI for 12 or $15? I don't recall but if climbers will whip, I will hang lol

I prefer WLR hitch on smaller line. I think it it is worth a try. With it you can make longer legs and don’t need that dog bone thing. I like my figure 8 though.

Side tangent, that pear shaped carabiner looks huge on that small line. Like the Burger King BK burger and the dude with small hands.

 

[Black Titan]

I got some new hardware. Excited to try it out. Loving SRT but have been itching to try rope walking.



Compared to RADs, there's a bit of weight savings until you add the foot ascender.



BT

 

[Horn]

I prefer WLR hitch on smaller line. I think it it is worth a try. With it you can make longer legs and don’t need that dog bone thing. I like my figure 8 though.

Side tangent, that pear shaped carabiner looks huge on that small line. Like the Burger King BK burger and the dude with small hands.

I'll have to check into a long legged WLR, I'll probably need more hitch cord but I need more anyway.

I love that carabiner, but it is a huge HMS. I wish is came in Petzels sm size because apparently The King and I have the same size hands

 

[gcr0003]

I'll have to check into a long legged WLR, I'll probably need more hitch cord but I need more anyway.

I love that carabiner, but it is a huge HMS. I wish is came in Petzels sm size because apparently The King and I have the same size hands

 

[Brocky]

View attachment 121178
I haven't thought of, or played around with any ideas, to make this work like Brockys set up for a guide atc from post #20 but I am very happy with how that's working for a single line rappel. Definitely can be refined some. Not sure both bridges are necessary, but I'm using the configuration anyway so it's okay. Less carabiners would be cool but I'm a touch under 10 pounds with everything except any extra layers so, that's fine too. I got the dog bone at REI for 12 or $15? I don't recall but if climbers will whip, I will hang lol

Hownot2 has some new cord in, this is a 4mm Dragon hitch, all Vectran, with relaxed cover, tied on itself. A Soft Sticht seemed a little iffy, the soft ring version felt totally secure.

 

[phatkaw]

^^^ I like the bungee strap trick!

 

[neonomad]

Hownot2 has some new cord in, this is a 4mm Dragon hitch, all Vectran, with relaxed cover, tied on itself. A Soft Sticht seemed a little iffy, the soft ring version felt totally secure.

@brocky I’m not able to keep up with everybody’s idiosyncrasies, you climb and hunt on 3 oz of rope?

 

[Brocky]

I would use the 4mm for a hitch cord and a LB, where two sections are loaded. The picture was showing how well it grabs.
I don’t hunt, here for the tree climbing part, and like to read about deer behavior from you all.



I like a less robust tether for my Wrench, and no pulley. A couple other diy wrenches.