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Recall on some BlackDiamond biners!

flinginairos

Well-Known Member
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Sep 19, 2014
Messages
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Saw this over on Archerytalk and thought I would pass the info along!!

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Thanks! I'll have to follow the inspection instructions for my Positron biners.
 
These biners came with the newer webs. Butch sent out a letter last week
 
I think the ones recalled are the Quick draw carbiners. I bought a rack of them for accessory carbiners to hold gear on to my saddle and returned them when I found out about the recall. I know they are rated for strength but the rule that we climb by is to only trust a locking carbiner for life support. Is anyone using a wire gate carbiner for their life support? I recommend at least a locking one if not a double or triple locking one. They take a little practice opening them with one hand and it's better than having a wire gate open while climbing. It happens.
 
DaveT1963 said:
I use wire gate ones on my lineman's belt all the time
I think a locking carabiner would be better here Dave. From past experience if I forget to screw my carabiner on my lineman's belt it is very possible that while I am twisting around the gate can be pushed open and it is possible it could slip off. For me, making sure that carabiner is closed is one of the most important things I do because if it did open it could be catastrophic.
 
redsquirrel said:
DaveT1963 said:
I use wire gate ones on my lineman's belt all the time
I think a locking carabiner would be better here Dave. From past experience if I forget to screw my carabiner on my lineman's belt it is very possible that while I am twisting around the gate can be pushed open and it is possible it could slip off. For me, making sure that carabiner is closed is one of the most important things I do because if it did open it could be catastrophic.

X3?

No doubt it will be safer and probably wiser to use a locking carbineer (I use double locking on my tether and my bridge). I only use the wire ones on my lineman's belt while I am using my sticks to climb. The ones I use have pretty heavy springs on them and it would require quit a bit of force to get them opened by accident. I kept my belt tight by leaning back into it - just has never been a problem. But, once again, it is a risk that I have weighed out and for me, climbing in the dark, I prefer to have an easy to use carbineer so I can take it on/off easily to go over branches, etc., but it is a risk not everyone should assume.

I also don't climb much over 17-18 foot these days - you guys hiking up to 30 foot would have to pry my finger and toe nails from the tree...... I would have three tethers, lineman's belts, etc..... truth is I use my lineman's belt more for convenience to lean against while I set the next stick/platform. Once I do that I tether in quickly.

I seldom have any real pressure on it actually. Now if my stick or platform broke, I trust that they will hold and aside from being slammed into my stick/tree.... I am pretty sure I would be OK... shaken a little but OK. I have said it before, but to me, this is actually the most risky thing I think we do in saddle hunting, and while I am climbing I am paying a lot of attention and going slow. The risk of a wire gate opening while I am climbing and the loop working over the post at the same time to me is almost non-existent in all actuality. Now could the carbineer fail if I free fall? I suppose it could but once again, I don't see how a free fall is going to happen if using a lineman's belt properly and it is rated for climbing......

In the end it is just a risk I personally choose to accept knowing that I still am NOT relying just on my equipment but trusting that I will stay engaged and watch for potential things that might snag on the wire gate and open it. So far, I have never had that happen.
 
I hear you Dave. I have done the same evaluation for myself. I found that my transitions from linemans belt to tether was the most likely place that something could go wrong, and a non locking carabiner on the linemans belt increases my chances of something going wrong.
 
redsquirrel said:
I hear you Dave. I have done the same evaluation for myself. I found that my transitions from linemans belt to tether was the most likely place that something could go wrong, and a non locking carabiner on the linemans belt increases my chances of something going wrong.

Do you not have separate carbineers for your lineman's belt, bridge and tether? I never unhook my lineman's belt until I am completely tethered in - I don't find that transition risky at all the way I am doing it? I also use my tether as a second lineman's for crossing voer branches - same thing I never unhook one until another is secured?
 
It's more about having an unexpected fall when attached with a lineman's belt. Most of this risk can be mitigated by avoiding back clipping positioning with the lineman's belt. I prefer a quick locking carabiner as its your last line of defense.
 
DaveT1963 said:
redsquirrel said:
I hear you Dave. I have done the same evaluation for myself. I found that my transitions from linemans belt to tether was the most likely place that something could go wrong, and a non locking carabiner on the linemans belt increases my chances of something going wrong.

Do you not have separate carbineers for your lineman's belt, bridge and tether? I never unhook my lineman's belt until I am completely tethered in - I don't find that transition risky at all the way I am doing it? I also use my tether as a second lineman's for crossing voer branches - same thing I never unhook one until another is secured?

I do have separate carabineres and I do transition like you. The most risky point for me is when I have put on the lineman's belt and am taking off my tether. If the lineman's belt isn't hooked up properly, when I go to put weight on it for the first time at hunting height is when I'll find out.
 
redsquirrel said:
DaveT1963 said:
redsquirrel said:
I hear you Dave. I have done the same evaluation for myself. I found that my transitions from linemans belt to tether was the most likely place that something could go wrong, and a non locking carabiner on the linemans belt increases my chances of something going wrong.

Do you not have separate carbineers for your lineman's belt, bridge and tether? I never unhook my lineman's belt until I am completely tethered in - I don't find that transition risky at all the way I am doing it? I also use my tether as a second lineman's for crossing voer branches - same thing I never unhook one until another is secured?

I do have separate carabineres and I do transition like you. The most risky point for me is when I have put on the lineman's belt and am taking off my tether. If the lineman's belt isn't hooked up properly, when I go to put weight on it for the first time at hunting height is when I'll find out.

That's why I always lean back into my lineman's as I slowly give slack into my tether. I double check everything and just don't assume I have a good hook up - I look and verify. When we get hurt/increase risk is when we stop paying attention or start taking things for granted. Guess the military just ingrained in me to run through a mental checklist - step-by-step. For me it is practice and training (repeating these steps) over the course of spring and summer that ingrains them. I am overly cautious in just about all I do as I am a little afraid of heights.
 
BassBoysLLP said:
It's more about having an unexpected fall when attached with a lineman's belt. Most of this risk can be mitigated by avoiding back clipping positioning with the lineman's belt. I prefer a quick locking carabiner as its your last line of defense.

This was my thinking as well. Looking at the wire carabiners, Im not sure they would be fall rated? Id use them for clipping on gear, but not for personal weight bearing use.
 
kenn1320 said:
BassBoysLLP said:
It's more about having an unexpected fall when attached with a lineman's belt. Most of this risk can be mitigated by avoiding back clipping positioning with the lineman's belt. I prefer a quick locking carabiner as its your last line of defense.

This was my thinking as well. Looking at the wire carabiners, Im not sure they would be fall rated? Id use them for clipping on gear, but not for personal weight bearing use.

You guys must be using your lineman's belt way differently then I do? If a stick (or my platform before I tether in) broke and came off the tree (only way I can really foresee "a fall" while using a lineman's belt) I would not fall as much as I would be skidding down a tree until I hit my next stick? My wire gate carbineers are rated to 23 K (only slightly behind the rating on most locking carbineers) if I remember right (I'll have to check). But I keep my lineman's belt pretty tight and inch it up as I am taking each step up? I don't use it as a flip line like when using gaffs. Heck I am more worried that if a step did break what would I impale myself on. Just not getting where everyone thinks they are going to free fall, for some distance, and then hit a dead stop at the end of some static rope/strap?

Anyways, the best precaution is to practice climbing while keeping slack out your lines... or at least a very minimal amount.
 
Black Diamond Neutrino Wiregate Carabiner
Major axis strength closed: 24kN
Minor axis strength: 7kN
Major axis strength gate open: 7kN

Black Diamond Vaporlock locking Screwgate Carabiner
Major axis strength closed: 24kN
Minor axis strength: 8kN
Major axis strength gate open: 7kN

Peltz William D design locking carabiner
Major axis strength closed: 25kN
Minor axis strength: 7kN
Major axis strength gate open: 7kN

Not a lot of difference until you get to steel
Sterling Steel Autolock Carabiner
Major axis strength closed: 45kN
Minor axis strength: 16kN
Major axis strength gate open: 18kN
 
There is nothing wrong with wire gate carabiners. In fact, they are preferred in freezing, wet conditions.
 
I have a couple wire gate ones too. But I don't worry so much about a carabiner falling as I worry about possibly cutting a rope or webbing , or some other equipment failure.
I have worried that the buckle on my sling might come unfastened while I'm pivoting (sometimes to the point of facing the opposite direction so the belt is critical) or something like that. I've worried that my stitching isn't adequate. I've worried that a step or stick might break.
Anything can happen, we just have to be aware of and try to minimize the dangers.
I try to keep a secondary safety in place at all times, but you just never know. The dang tree could fall.
Be careful and have fun.

Shaun.
 
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