Ropeman Safety

[bongo]

I haven't posted in a long time and am sitting in a tree in Ohio reading this.
Don't think I've heard of this before but my buddy was here with me last week and he blew up a Ropeman1. Spring blew up. It wouldn't hold itself on the line without weight on it. He texted me he was half way up a tree. I know he carries a piece of 9mm for self rescue since that LW Climber Blew Up on Me a couple years ago so I told him to tie a prusik on his tether till I could get him a new ascender.
I carry and extra tether and a Beal jammy with me just in case I need it.
So when I made it to him and gave him the other tether with a duck on it he was already 25' up happy as a clam.
I've got Ropeman1 don't use any more because of line size. I have a Kong Duck that I like better than Ropeman1. But my favorite is my CT Rollinglock. Just Saying.
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[Fl Canopy Stalker]

If a person is adjusting the hitch using the Ropeman as a tender I think the hitch would rarely be tight enough to catch, unless that person makes an effort to set the hitch every time he adjusts it. But in light of your points I’ll adjust my estimate to IMO there is almost 0% chance that hitch catches.


Having to set or weight the hitch every time it is adjusted to give it a chance to actually work ties into my second point. There isn’t any appreciable gains in “ease of use” by combining a Ropeman and a hitch.

I agree with you completely, most guys using it in this way, wouldn’t think to tighten it after and also just keeping your tether tensioned or using a hitchc that’s easier to adjust, can often times be easier than combining the two….. I was definitely agreeing with what you said, also yes it’s more likely the distance between the ropeman and hitch wouldn’t be great enough all things considered. I am glad you pointed those things out as many don’t realize when a mechanical rope grab fails, it typically shears the rope… I was simply pointing out that other factors (with the prusik) that could effect the outcome!!! By the way, it’s good to see that each new generation of new to saddle hunter, bring up old threads. To me it shows that everyone on here is helping spread the word on safety…

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

So

Your Ropeman is the one that is easier on your rope. I see no wear on my tether from my Ropeman which is same style as yours. In fact, the area of my tether that goes around tree has more wear from tree bark. At some point, I may swap ends on my tether to put the fresh, unused end around tree. I am also learning all the time. Partly from my own practice and partly from this forum. Lots of useful knowledge shared here by folks with much more experience than me. Happy hunting!

Something to consider when “checking for damage” from your ropeman is inner core integrity. Unless you fall, a ropeman won’t make the outer sheath fray the way prusiks can over time or the way aggressive teeth rope grabs will, however the flat teeth in the ropeman over time and repeat use can cause the core inside the rope to flatten and lose its rigidity. I tell guys to use the thumb and bend test to make sure the inner core isn’t damaged. Sometimes it’s not eye apparent like melting or fraying. Just something to think about when using your ropeman

 

[BTaylor]

I agree with you completely, most guys using it in this way, wouldn’t think to tighten it after and also just keeping your tether tensioned or using a hitchc that’s easier to adjust, can often times be easier than combining the two….. I was definitely agreeing with what you said, also yes it’s more likely the distance between the ropeman and hitch wouldn’t be great enough all things considered. I am glad you pointed those things out as many don’t realize when a mechanical rope grab fails, it typically shears the rope… I was simply pointing out that other factors (with the prusik) that could effect the outcome!!! By the way, it’s good to see that each new generation of new to saddle hunter, bring up old threads. To me it shows that everyone on here is helping spread the word on safety…

You need to quit hiding and post more.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

You need to quit hiding and post more.

I don’t offer much to the site outside of the occasional sarcasm and constant adoration for all the deer you guys are shooting… lol with that said I’ll be back soon. I have a few things left to finalize and thanksgiving to prep for. But to quote Arnold, I’ll be back

 

[cjr4497]

What if the ropeman just breaks? A friction hitch above it would catch and hold you. My point is there is more than one reason to back it up above the device. It would be a cool to see someone do a drop test to see if a friction hitch above an ascender would catch and hold.

 

[GCTerpfan]

What if the ropeman just breaks? A friction hitch above it would catch and hold you. My point is there is more than one reason to back it up above the device. It would be a cool to see someone do a drop test to see if a friction hitch above an ascender would catch and hold.

Agreed. The bigger point I am trying to make is what do you gain? backing up a Ropeman with a hitch makes you deal with a hitch and a Ropeman instead of just a hitch.

 

[cjr4497]

Agreed. The bigger point I am trying to make is what do you gain? backing up a Ropeman with a hitch makes you deal with a hitch and a Ropeman instead of just a hitch.

Yeah, I don't back mine up. I don't see the need. I know people do though.

 

[WannaBMonkey]

Agreed. The bigger point I am trying to make is what do you gain? backing up a Ropeman with a hitch makes you deal with a hitch and a Ropeman instead of just a hitch.

For me, I use the Ropeman for going up and down. The backup hitch is tensioned once at hunting height. At that point I don't do much adjusting. Maybe minor adjustment for amount of lean, which is easy enough to move the Ropeman and hitch in small increments alternating between the two. Once I'm comfy, no more adjusting.

 

[bowhunthard88]

If I'm using a mechanical, I'm not using a backup to that mechanical specifically...

 

[Windstretch]

I don't know a lot about climbing gear but the ropeman 1 is rated at 15 kN. I just started using one and I like it, I just always thought the standard to stay above was 22kN or 5000 lbs. I realize it is highly unlikely I would ever generate this force in a fall, but if I did fall 6 ft for some reason I wouldn't have the 2x safety factor. So why is it okay to accept a lower rating in this case if your setup is only as strong as your weakest point? I'm still getting used to the saddle so I'm still a little nervous about some things when I'm 25 ft in a tree, so I just want to make sure I'm being safe.

Hi I not going to say what most want to hear. But from all I read and all the videos I seen a ropeman is not the right tool. In a fall it can and will cut or strip your outer sheath on your rope.
That is a bad deal at that point.

Remember your life depends on the rope. The choice of equipment used with that rope will dictate your safety level I don't believe a ropeman one or two is safe . I use friction hitches producing knots and prusik tenders.
I can do everything else everyone else is doing and I don't have to worry about a mechanical failure that's probably going to happen
. Specifically my opinion do what you want

 

[Sechelik]

I don't know a lot about climbing gear but the ropeman 1 is rated at 15 kN. I just started using one and I like it, I just always thought the standard to stay above was 22kN or 5000 lbs. I realize it is highly unlikely I would ever generate this force in a fall, but if I did fall 6 ft for some reason I wouldn't have the 2x safety factor. So why is it okay to accept a lower rating in this case if your setup is only as strong as your weakest point? I'm still getting used to the saddle so I'm still a little nervous about some things when I'm 25 ft in a tree, so I just want to make sure I'm being safe.

Both my ropeman 1 and kong duck are collecting dust in the shed. I now only use 6mm trc friction hitches(jrb agile hitch) and the garda hitch footloop on my 8mm sterling oplux. Check out

JRB Tree Climbing - JrbTreeClimbing.com

JRB Tree Climbing and Saddle Hunting Links to: YouTube Channel, Patreon, Facebook Group (private), Facebook Page (public): YouTube Patreon Facebook Facebook Use the following buttons to navigate the website, which is managed by JRB, as an informational service. You can support JRB Tree Climbing...

jrbtreeclimbing.com

 

[Chandler96]

I think you'd have to have a lot of slack in your tether and fall pretty far for your ropeman or duck to break. Unless it just spontaneously burst into pieces, there isn't much to worry about.

 

[bowhunthard88]

While I have no issue trusting my life to these devices when used properly, and I've used the 3 major versions/brands; the failure point is not the device itself, but rather that the device will compromise the rope integrity at a fairly low rating. Typically the rope sheath will be stripped at about 4kN... These devices should not be used in instances where a higher fall factor is a possibility. There are better options for higher fall factor settings.

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

I back mine up above the RM, but it’s not under tension unless I need it to be. I trust the RM but I don’t trust what the RM is doing to the core of my rope, and I always hook up to the prusik before hooking to the RM, just in case I did something funky putting the RM on (I don’t leave on my rope, don’t like it squeezing 24/7). I’m still undecided on the RM for my tether. Might swap to LB or try using it for SRT if I’m feeling groovy in the off-season. I like Wild Country’s videos on ascending with RM1.

 

[Jefferson10940]

I keep seeing about a drop fall and outer sheath tearing.... For starters in our situation, a drop fall is very unlikely unless you do not keep tension on your tether, which is something to be done at all times. If you step off the platform, you will swing to the left or right and into the tree, no real drop.
Second, the strength of the rope is the core not the sheath. The sheath keeps it protected and pretty. if this happens, regain your composure, get back up onto the platform and start packing up. I would not continue to hunt but the rope will be safe enough to get down. Someone even said that if the sheath rips you lose your stopper knot? The stopper knot is the core covered by sheath tied in a knot, tearing the sheath will not affect the knot at all. I can understand the lack of trust in a mechanical device, but if that is you then you are better off not using one. Use a schwabish or something that you can tie. I see no reason to backup a mechanical device, if that is the case, there is no need for it. It negates the only positives of one.

I guess if you do not trust your knot tying abilities, you can back that up with a mechanical ascender?

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! and safe hunting!!

 

[bowhunthard88]

I keep seeing about a drop fall and outer sheath tearing.... For starters in our situation, a drop fall is very unlikely unless you do not keep tension on your tether, which is something to be done at all times. If you step off the platform, you will swing to the left or right and into the tree, no real drop.
Second, the strength of the rope is the core not the sheath. The sheath keeps it protected and pretty. if this happens, regain your composure, get back up onto the platform and start packing up. I would not continue to hunt but the rope will be safe enough to get down. Someone even said that if the sheath rips you lose your stopper knot? The stopper knot is the core covered by sheath tied in a knot, tearing the sheath will not affect the knot at all. I can understand the lack of trust in a mechanical device, but if that is you then you are better off not using one. Use a schwabish or something that you can tie. I see no reason to backup a mechanical device, if that is the case, there is no need for it. It negates the only positives of one.

I guess if you do not trust your knot tying abilities, you can back that up with a mechanical ascender?

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! and safe hunting!!

All correct! The facts are that that is the weak point of the device and that the intended use is NOT to be implemented in a scenario where a slack-line fall of any factor is a risk. For myself, I have no issues trusting my CT Roll'n'lock if I choose to use it.