Ropeman Safety

[Rev]

I wouldn’t really be concerned with either. If it was icing up at such a rate that your ropeman would be comprised, you should no longer be in a tree. That said the ropeman under tension is going to bite the rope whether it’s wet or icy, so you would be ok.

 

[Rev]

I'm new to this "saddle " hunting also. 60-220# and concerned about safety. Been leaving my lineman's belt attached while tethered. The idea of knot under tsg end of ropeman 1 or 2 seems sound. Thank you all

 

[TheTracker]

The prusik shouldn’t be set up below the ropeman, or any other device, because if the device fails it will act as a rope slider and prevent the prusik from binding on the rope. Also always remember to tie double fishermen knots at the ends of any open line so that if you do make a mistake like this in set up you at least have a shot at being caught.

I've had them slip on my tether when my tether was wet, It was pretty cold in the low 40s and it rained/sleet after a few hours my ropeman would slide down my tether and I ultimately left the tree!

 

[LiverEatingJoe]

Are you guys talking about having a back up bridge? I'm new so a little cluless. I have a Mantis and sometimes I look at the stress on that white rope bridge (1/4″ Amsteel Blue bridge at 30″ ?) when I'm clip the carbiner to the tether and I wonder if that rope wont' fray or the splice come undone. (just nightmares I have).

 

[mattsteg]

Are you guys talking about having a back up bridge? I'm new so a little cluless. I have a Mantis and sometimes I look at the stress on that white rope bridge (1/4″ Amsteel Blue bridge at 30″ ?) when I'm clip the carbiner to the tether and I wonder if that rope wont' fray or the splice come undone. (just nightmares I have).

You could certainly add a second slightly longer amsteel bridge (even in the same biner I guess), if worried about fray/wear, but absent the rope being cut or visibly worn I can't expect there would be a problem.

 

[mattsteg]

And they're talking about backing up a ropeman on a tether or lineman belt, in case the ropeman fails.

 

[abock33]

I run a petzl croll chest ascender instead of the rope ropeman. Main reason I own it. It has teeth so wet and icy conditions are not a factor. Rope wear is so I use 11mm bluewater static line. I also have a prussik above that and a biner connecting them. I run my Sterling Chain Reactor PAS off that biner as a backup. I know its overkill but I feel comfortable and that's all that matters.

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[Mike Nutto]

I've been using the ropeman one for two years now. It is an amazing tool! now I don't back up the ropeman on the linemans belt. I was using a static line that was very stiff and hard to tie knots in. I just got the tethered linemen rope, which I believe is Samson predator rope. The rope is awesome! when you handle it you can tell it is durable, and it ties into a knot much easier, as a linemen tool for going up and down trees it works like no other. I do tie a knot in the end as a fall back up. A prusik knot would delete its ability to work on a linemen belt .
Now as a rope tether for hanging in a saddle it is a good tool as well. This is the area I question the most in the saddle. Now I just bought the mantis and they use amsteel as a bridge. Is really cool , but what if it failed? One I'm considering adding a second bridge as a back up. What the rope man does is allow you to adjust easier on your tether rope on the tree, yet your right it shouldn't be your only safety! so you could put a prusik above or below it and attach the loop, then hook it to the carabiner.

 

[Squirrels]

I've been using the ropeman one for two years now. It is an amazing tool! now I don't back up the ropeman on the linemans belt. I was using a static line that was very stiff and hard to tie knots in. I just got the tethered linemen rope, which I believe is Samson predator rope. The rope is awesome! when you handle it you can tell it is durable, and it ties into a knot much easier, as a linemen tool for going up and down trees it works like no other. I do tie a knot in the end as a fall back up. A prusik knot would delete its ability to work on a linemen belt .
Now as a rope tether for hanging in a saddle it is a good tool as well. This is the area I question the most in the saddle. Now I just bought the mantis and they use amsteel as a bridge. Is really cool , but what if it failed? One I'm considering adding a second bridge as a back up. What the rope man does is allow you to adjust easier on your tether rope on the tree, yet your right it shouldn't be your only safety! so you could put a prusik above or below it and attach the loop, then hook it to the carabiner.

Your prusik back up on your tether needs to go above your ropeman. If you place your back up friction hitch below your ropeman and there happens to be a ropeman failure the ropeman would act as a tender and push against your friction hitch not allowing it to grabt/friction/catch on your tether.

 

[kenn1320]

Guess Im the odd man out here. I wear a RC harness and a DIY saddle. The saddle has amsteel bridge/ropeman and the end of the tether has a knot with a biner hooked to my harness. Yes I feel safe.

 

[Mike Nutto]

I think your right it's probably a better idea to connect it from above.
If the ropeman was to fail it could only happen at the spring , or from wear at biner connection.
It's really unlikely to fail though. Yet you never know. I had to think about it for a moment.

Your prusik back up on your tether needs to go above your ropeman. If you place your back up friction hitch below your ropeman and there happens to be a ropeman failure the ropeman would act as a tender and push against your friction hitch not allowing it to grabt/friction/catch on your tether.

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[bigdave1691]

I see a lot of fellow saddle hunters using the ropeman 1, but has anybody used any other like the rollinlock by CT or Duck emergency ascender. The ropeman1 is hard to come by these days.

 

[bongo]

I see a lot of fellow saddle hunters using the ropeman 1, but has anybody used any other like the rollinlock by CT or Duck emergency ascender. The ropeman1 is hard to come by these days.

I use a Duck on my 8mm tether.


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[g2outdoors]

Now I just bought the mantis and they use amsteel as a bridge. Is really cool , but what if it failed?

Did you know Samson Amsteel Blue (7,700 lb) is almost 30% stronger than Samson Predator (6,000 lb)?

Also, remember when you tie a knot in Predator, or any rope for that matter, you weaken it 30%-40% (depending on who you ask). When you splice Amsteel you retain 90% strength.


Sent from my Galaxy S8.

 

[g2outdoors]

Does anyone have any specific examples of the Ropeman failing? I'd like to see the circumstances surrounding it.

Sent from my Galaxy S8.

 

[Mike Nutto]

Does anyone have any specific examples of the Ropeman failing? I'd like to see the circumstances surrounding it.

Sent from my Galaxy S8.

It's a good question Greg. I've been really looking at how we actually set up in the tree.
Now I've noticed two other companies. I won't mention names because I know you own a company. They make their tree rope or tree tether w another loop at the end. All things aside safety is the biggest factor here. You really never know what could happen. Let's say somehow your bridge got cut and you didn't realize it and it snapped. Your on the ground w a broken back! The saddle is your safety harness. I want a longer tree tether w a second loop that I can pass through where the bridge holds. This very conversation got me thinking. As for the ropeman failing I have no incidents. But time has a way of making things break and human error make things happen. Chasing deer getting up early makes you tired and forget things. I think the ropeman one is awesome I use it all the time I need a second one to be able to adjust on the tree better but I'm telling you now I'm hooking to the pursik knot and hooking a longer tree tether through my saddle. My girlfriend's father is permentlt disabled from a motor cycle crash , I would never want to end up like him

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[elk yinzer]

Does anyone have any specific examples of the Ropeman failing? I'd like to see the circumstances surrounding it.

Sent from my Galaxy S8.

I don't. I've toyed around with doing some amatuer testing to replicate worst case real world scenarios.

There is a British research study that cites 4kN failure. It is linked and cited throughout this thread a couple times.

A 200 lb person falling 3 feet with a fall factor of 1 generates roughly 5 kN of impact force on the system. Based on the British study that is enough to be concerned.

Granted, your point has been that a 3 foot fall "should" not happen in saddle hunting and for sure I get that. But with some sketchy climbing practices or off-label use as a treestand type harness, it is absolutely plausible.

 

[Mike Nutto]

Did you know Samson Amsteel Blue (7,700 lb) is almost 30% stronger than Samson Predator (6,000 lb)?

Also, remember when you tie a knot in Predator, or any rope for that matter, you weaken it 30%-40% (depending on who you ask). When you splice Amsteel you retain 90% strength.


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Greg I believe it , I'm using it on your saddle. Here is my point can it be cut can it fray? I'm cautioning on the side of error. Your using predator for your tree tether are you not? It can be spliced as well. I don't think it is a matter of it actually breaking. My point would be what if something happens to the rope , or the bridge , it could happen with predator rope. Greg I have a friend who does tree work been climbing for over twenty years and fell, it's one wrong miscalculation and your on the ground. He broke his ankle his linemens belt saved him. So do you think it's a better idea to be safe then sorry?

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[elk yinzer]

Did you know Samson Amsteel Blue (7,700 lb) is almost 30% stronger than Samson Predator (6,000 lb)?

Also, remember when you tie a knot in Predator, or any rope for that matter, you weaken it 30%-40% (depending on who you ask). When you splice Amsteel you retain 90% strength.


Sent from my Galaxy S8.

Not meaning to call you out Greg, but in my view, that is not a fully accurate comparison to extend to real world usage because MBS fails to account for shock loading. Amsteel is made of dyneema which performs poorly in compsrison to nylon in tests involving shock loading.

We can debate til the cows come home that there shouldn't be slack in a saddle system, and once set up at height and saddle hunting, I agree. But I think with the vast majority of climbing methods, shock loading is a risk and without proper diligence high impact forces can be generated with even falls of 2 or 3 feet. Just something for us to keep in mind with Amsteel. I'd like to see it tested more, I can't find any tests where Amsteel is shock loaded.

 

[g2outdoors]

Greg I believe it , I'm using it on your saddle. Here is my point can it be cut can it fray? I'm cautioning on the side of error. Your using predator for your tree tether are you not? It can be spliced as well. I don't think it is a matter of it actually breaking. My point would be what if something happens to the rope , or the bridge , it could happen with predator rope. Greg I have a friend who does tree work been climbing for over twenty years and fell, it's one wrong miscalculation and your on the ground. He broke his ankle his linemens belt saved him. So do you think it's a better idea to be safe then sorry?

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I'm all for being safe. That's why I use a stronger rope (Amsteel) and a stronger attachment method (splice). To me, it's a superior, and safer method in every way. I would expect my tether, Ropeman, or carabiner to fail before the Amsteel bridge.

I'm not advocating anyone should be less safe. The reason I quoted your post is because I assumed (maybe incorrectly?) that you thought Amsteel was a less safe option. I wanted to point out that Amsteel is actually a safer/stronger option even though it's a little outside the conventional box. Hope that makes sense.

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