Ropeman Safety

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

It would be cool to see a drop test to prove it works.

A drop test to see if a friction hitch tied off a few inches above the ascender works? Or a drop test to see if a ropeman really snaps your tether in a fall?

 

[GCTerpfan]

A drop test to see if a friction hitch tied off a few inches above the ascender works? Or a drop test to see if a ropeman really snaps your tether in a fall?

I can't speak for @cjr4497 but, I would like to see a drop test to see if a hitch tied above your ascender would work. I have doubts the hitch would have time to grab before encountering the cut/damaged rope.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I can't speak for @cjr4497 but, I would like to see a drop test to see if a hitch tied above your ascender would work. I have doubts the hitch would have time to grab before encountering the cut/damaged rope.

I’m trying to get up to Ga to drop test a new prototype as soon as I am caught up… I will add that drop to the roster and record it for everyone. It might be a couple months so y’all be patient but I’ll definitely record it and post it here…. As long as posting a you tube drop test doesn’t violate the vendor rules (I’ll be sure not to be advertising or promoting sales in the video)

 

[sojourner]

I can't speak for @cjr4497 but, I would like to see a drop test to see if a hitch tied above your ascender would work. I have doubts the hitch would have time to grab before encountering the cut/damaged rope.

I cannot speak for [mention]GCTerpfan [/mention]but I would like the below question to be addressed/discussed.

Along that line, we do, or should, be tying a stopper knot at the end of our ropes (in case a friction hitch slips or doesn’t catch, to keep it from flying off the main rope and causing an unintended fall).

How would one tie a stopper knot between the friction hitch and the ropeman?

I ask this question because (1) I really do not see “backing up” a ropeman with a friction hitch tied above the ropeman is really a safe backup and (2) if I am incorrect, then I have confidence that [mention]Fl Canopy Stalker [/mention] would be able to shed some light on this.

Thx!

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I cannot speak for [mention]GCTerpfan [/mention]but I would like the below question to be addressed/discussed.

Along that line, we do, or should, be tying a stopper knot at the end of our ropes (in case a friction hitch slips or doesn’t catch, to keep it from flying off the main rope and causing an unintended fall).

How would one tie a stopper knot between the friction hitch and the ropeman?

I ask this question because (1) I really do not see “backing up” a ropeman with a friction hitch tied above the ropeman is really a safe backup and (2) if I am incorrect, then I have confidence that [mention]Fl Canopy Stalker [/mention] would be able to shed some light on this.

Thx!

This is two fold… anytime a friction hitch is used there should be a stopper knot. However it’s not ideal to have a stopper knot above your mechanical as it would limit your mechanicals range…. The friction hitch back up is similar in theory to an auto block. In that instance the mechanical should damage the rope but it would also absorb enough force in doing so that your hitch should have time to bite and hold as long as the hitch is a few inches above the rope grab (ascender, ropeman whatever). If you are comfortable being a little further away from the tree while leaning and you know you won’t shorten your ropeman beyond the point where you tie the knot, a stopper knot above the ascender to guarantee no friction hitch slippage would not hurt anything simply because a knot in a 5400 lbs rope would still be more than twice as strong as the ropeman.

 

[barlow96]

I don't know a lot about climbing gear but the ropeman 1 is rated at 15 kN. I just started using one and I like it, I just always thought the standard to stay above was 22kN or 5000 lbs. I realize it is highly unlikely I would ever generate this force in a fall, but if I did fall 6 ft for some reason I wouldn't have the 2x safety factor. So why is it okay to accept a lower rating in this case if your setup is only as strong as your weakest point? I'm still getting used to the saddle so I'm still a little nervous about some things when I'm 25 ft in a tree, so I just want to make sure I'm being safe.

1 Kn is 225lbs.

So 15 kn is 3375. A one person load that is plenty. 22 kn is what we used in rescue world for 2 people load. I know I am very late to the conversation.

 

[sojourner]

This is two fold… anytime a friction hitch is used there should be a stopper knot. However it’s not ideal to have a stopper knot above your mechanical as it would limit your mechanicals range…. The friction hitch back up is similar in theory to an auto block. In that instance the mechanical should damage the rope but it would also absorb enough force in doing so that your hitch should have time to bite and hold as long as the hitch is a few inches above the rope grab (ascender, ropeman whatever). If you are comfortable being a little further away from the tree while leaning and you know you won’t shorten your ropeman beyond the point where you tie the knot, a stopper knot above the ascender to guarantee no friction hitch slippage would not hurt anything simply because a knot in a 5400 lbs rope would still be more than twice as strong as the ropeman.

Thx for your reply. I thought I might be missing something, but apparently not. It just seems adding extra gear and complexity because someone may not be comfortable tying their own non-prusic friction hitch is not a good way to go. All just my opinion. I’ll stick with a distel and a tender.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

1 Kn is 225lbs.

So 15 kn is 3375. A one person load that is plenty. 22 kn is what we used in rescue world for 2 people load. I know I am very late to the conversation.

Technically 1 kN is 224.8 pounds it’s usually rounded up for easy math lol

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

1 Kn is 225lbs.

So 15 kn is 3375. A one person load that is plenty. 22 kn is what we used in rescue world for 2 people load. I know I am very late to the conversation.

However a ropeman is not rated to 15kN. So that’s not true. A ropeman 1 and 2 meet requirements of EN 567 for a rope grab which means they only hold to 1000 lbs (4kN) I have no idea where that 15kN stuff was ever a thought for a rope grab

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I a

Thx for your reply. I thought I might be missing something, but apparently not. It just seems adding extra gear and complexity because someone may not be comfortable tying their own non-prusic friction hitch is not a good way to go. All just my opinion. I’ll stick with a distel and a tender.

I agree. I’ve never given any thought to a stopper knot above the mechanical so I went to the tree and tried it. It worked but it was annoying. Ideally just leave 3 or four inches between the ropeman and the friction hitch, then cinch the hitch any time you adjust the mechanical. If tied properly, It would grab well above where the mechanical failed (if that happened)

 

[cjr4497]

A drop test to see if a friction hitch tied off a few inches above the ascender works? Or a drop test to see if a ropeman really snaps your tether in a fall?

To see if the friction hitch backup works. I posted several videos showing what could happen if you took a decent fall on just an ascender.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

To see if the friction hitch backup works. I posted several videos showing what could happen if you took a decent fall on just an ascender.

Oh.. on our you tube channel we have videos of multiple drops from all sorts of angles and distances being performed with a 300 lbs dummy and every drop there used our tether with a simple prusik hitch. Not one time did the friction hitch fail (one time it did slide almost 20” because it wasn’t tightly weighted before the drop, however it still caught several inches before the stopper knot

 

[cjr4497]

Oh.. on our you tube channel we have videos of multiple drops from all sorts of angles and distances being performed with a 300 lbs dummy and every drop there used our tether with a simple prusik hitch. Not one time did the friction hitch fail (one time it did slide almost 20” because it wasn’t tightly weighted before the drop, however it still caught several inches before the stopper knot

Cool, got a link?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Cool, got a link?

I’ll send it to you through private message just in case. (I don’t want to violate any vendor rules).

 

[dk_ace]

I came here to post a thread asking a ropeman 1 question, but it looks like it should probably just go here.

With the design of the ropeman 1, it is rated for 10-13mm rope, but isn’t that assuming a certain carabiner diameter? Meaning is there any actual difference in using a 10mm carabiner and a 10mm rope, versus using an 8mm rope and a 12mm carabiner?

D

 

[WannaBMonkey]

Very interesting question. I'm not going to attempt to answer it but I look forward to seeing the responses. I get your logic but I don't know the answer. Never even gave that a thought before.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I came here to post a thread asking a ropeman 1 question, but it looks like it should probably just go here.

With the design of the ropeman 1, it is rated for 10-13mm rope, but isn’t that assuming a certain carabiner diameter? Meaning is there any actual difference in using a 10mm carabiner and a 10mm rope, versus using an 8mm rope and a 12mm carabiner?

D

Email wild country from their web page and see they suggest. I’m assuming the cam pushes to the same far side of the hole regardless which means it wouldn’t matter and you don’t use 8mm rope, but I could be mistaken. On their link they have a contact us section at the bottom email that question and screen shot the reply here so others will know

 

[dk_ace]

Email wild country from their web page and see they suggest. I’m assuming the cam pushes to the same far side of the hole regardless which means it wouldn’t matter and you don’t use 8mm rope, but I could be mistaken. On their link they have a contact us section at the bottom email that question and screen shot the reply here so others will know

I’m using it for the time being, but to be safe I’m also clipped into the prussic I put just above it. I can easily adjust the position on the rope with the ropeman this way because the prussic isn’t being pulled very tight. If the ropeman were to fail, I’m on the prussic.

After looking closer at how these ascenders work, I think that’s the better way to use them anyway. The closer I looked at it the less comfortable I was with depending on it at that height.

D

 

[TommyDee]

Answer is to not use the ropeman In your system, more cons than pros, just my opinion. If you have the right cord on the right rope with the right hitch and a cheap tender, it can operate as smooth one-handed as a ropeman in my experience. I’m no expert, just bought tethers from latitude with my saddle 2 years ago, and their setup achieves that with what appears to be sterling 6 mm TRC on 8 mm oplux, swabisch, a little tender strap riggged on a very basic carabiner. I’m sure other vendors on here probably achieve the same in their kits, but i don’t know. Stopper knot at end of tether, of course. Quieter, cheaper, lighter, safer, In my opinion nearly as smooth to adjust for tether and linesman adjustments, or at least smooth enough. Remember, you’re hunting, so you shouldn’t be moving around adjusting things constantly.

 

[WannaBMonkey]

Personally, I have complete faith in my Ropemans. As long as you keep the slack out of your ropes, I don't see it failing you.