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Ropeman Safety

I came here to post a thread asking a ropeman 1 question, but it looks like it should probably just go here.

With the design of the ropeman 1, it is rated for 10-13mm rope, but isn’t that assuming a certain carabiner diameter? Meaning is there any actual difference in using a 10mm carabiner and a 10mm rope, versus using an 8mm rope and a 12mm carabiner?

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A larger biner shaft diameter is not going to change the grip on the rope. It will make the rope grab harder to slide on the biner. It is speced 10mm minimum. Your life literally hangs on it. Enough said. You want lighter smaller safer more compact? You can have it but you will have to become the ones in ten saddle hunters who will do what all the others are not. Tie a JRB 523 ascender hitch in compact mode. Put it on 8mm rope. Maybe consider rescue tech. If you go this route JRB recommended this hitch cord. It is super strong and slides so easy to move but hitches lock up great under load. https://www.rocknarbor.com/product/sterling-rit-900-6-8mm-hollow-braid/
Want safest lightest fastest system, learn to JRB climb. My whole pack ready to hunt, including the weight of the pack is under 10#. The only weight to add is clothing and weapon. See JRB climbing, he has a group on Facebook, a YouTube channel, and a website. I am 69 so if I can learn it, learn the knots, build my system and climb on it. You can to, if you want to. The only hardware you need are biners. The system has redundant safety. And going up or down, if you let go of everything you stop. You don't fall.
 
1. A ropeman is not rated for a static line fall.
2. Any rope or hardwear rated for more than 1,500lb will cut you in half before it breaks if you fall far enought.
3. Rope elasticity is another factor. Static line may only stretch 3 to 8 percent. Non static line comparison Gold line (10mm) that is use a lot in climbing has a 30 percent stretch rating and a 3,000 pound breaking rating. Example using 10mm Gold Line. Climbing height, 20 feet, you fall 10 feet before arresting on rope and hardware. the rope stretches 30 percnt that is approximately 6 feet. You are 6 feet tall and your protection is attached to your waist. there is a good chance you now have broken anlkes, broken legs, or sever trauma to your back.
There are numerous mathmatical formulas that can be used to compute your fall force on the rope and hardware and you impact force to the ground.
4. The reality is do your homework on your rope, and hardware before you use it.
I can tell you from experience Mr. Newton never lies.
 
1. A ropeman is not rated for a static line fall.
2. Any rope or hardwear rated for more than 1,500lb will cut you in half before it breaks if you fall far enought.
3. Rope elasticity is another factor. Static line may only stretch 3 to 8 percent. Non static line comparison Gold line (10mm) that is use a lot in climbing has a 30 percent stretch rating and a 3,000 pound breaking rating. Example using 10mm Gold Line. Climbing height, 20 feet, you fall 10 feet before arresting on rope and hardware. the rope stretches 30 percnt that is approximately 6 feet. You are 6 feet tall and your protection is attached to your waist. there is a good chance you now have broken anlkes, broken legs, or sever trauma to your back.
There are numerous mathmatical formulas that can be used to compute your fall force on the rope and hardware and you impact force to the ground.
4. The reality is do your homework on your rope, and hardware before you use it.
I can tell you from experience Mr. Newton never lies.
Totally agree with you. Slack is the enemy. That is one of the many benefits to JRB climbing. Slack is minimized to a few inches. The most slack is on your upward move. How much slack depends on your style. If you double shove up on both hitches while simultaneously standing up. You can keep it to a few inches or less. If you stand-up, try and hold your self vertical on the rope and then push your hitches up. You could have slack about as long as your forearm. Personally I find it easier to stand and shove up simultaneously. And since most hunters are on static rope, as you say, manage slack to the barest minimum. That way if you fall it's a few inches and you can laugh and keep climbing. Zero slack coming down on a muenter or ATC, the caution the that comes to mind is break your hitches and of course tend them. But maybe only break then two or three inches. That way if a be stings us or something, if we are startled and let go of everything you only fall a couple of inches.
 
I’m not sure why anyone would have any slack
If you’re using you tether there should be no slack

If you fall while putting a stick up with your lineman’s belt there should be no slack
Granted your face hitting into the tree isn’t going to feel good but it’s probably better than falling 10 or 15 feet if you were t using a lineman belt
 
I’m not sure why anyone would have any slack
If you’re using you tether there should be no slack

If you fall while putting a stick up with your lineman’s belt there should be no slack
Granted your face hitting into the tree isn’t going to feel good but it’s probably better than falling 10 or 15 feet if you were t using a lineman belt
You tube has many videos of people demonstrating how to one stick. And I have seen them with three or four feet of slack at times. Watch them if you haven't, you won't have to watch more than a couple to see it.
Also a lineman's belt is not attached to the tree but around the tree. Personally I think it's fairly safe in a tree at least as big as a basketball with fairly rough or textured bark. In a very small diameter tree and/or a tree with very smooth bark. It can be very unsafe.
 
You tube has many videos of people demonstrating how to one stick. And I have seen them with three or four feet of slack at times. Watch them if you haven't, you won't have to watch more than a couple to see it.
Also a lineman's belt is not attached to the tree but around the tree. Personally I think it's fairly safe in a tree at least as big as a basketball with fairly rough or textured bark. In a very small diameter tree and/or a tree with very smooth bark. It can be very unsafe.
 
You are correct. The ropeman is not intended to be used as a sole life support device. The original ropeman1 from just a couple years ago was only rated for 4 kN! This one came out a year or 2 ago.

To answer your question as to why is it acceptable.... basically that is something that is up to each user to decide on their own. The 22 kN recommendation is intended for arborists, rock climbers, etc. Do they do the same things as us? Not exactly, but they are the closest thing that we have to look to for guidance. Some of the gear used in the hunting industry is rated way below that number. In fact if you look at some of the stuff they are selling, it is pure junk. With just a little bit of knowledge you can make something of higher quality and safer for often much cheaper.

Safety comes first and I do try to stick to that 22 kN number as often as I can. You can also build redundancy into your system. If you put a prussic below your ropeman it would allow you to use the ropeman for the easy adjustment but have the prussik as a backup. If you search around you will find users who are doing this.
Sorry if I am bringing a 'zombie' thread back to life from 2017....hope that is kosher......but some of these topics remain viable years later.

I'm pretty new to saddle hunting......got a used saddle early this fall that I am liking a lot. It came with 9mm Trophyline linemans and 11mm unknown teather with an orange Ropeman 1. After several saddle hunts, it is working well, but last evening I was looking at the Ropeman with the same minor misgivings as the OP had about 'what if'? I like the suggestion of a prusik knot as it is simple, but they have to be under tension to hold in place. How would you make that happen below a Ropeman? Would the prusik need to be attached to the saddle as well so it would lock up should the Ropeman slide?

By the way, I have a Predator 11mm teather rope with sewn loop from EWO and a new Ropeman on the waym along with some Black Diamond carabiners, so that 'unknown' factor is dispelled. Sunday evening I hunted from a pre-set fixed stand and did not feel nearly as secure as in my saddle.....and I have hunted that way for decades.
 
Sorry if I am bringing a 'zombie' thread back to life from 2017....hope that is kosher......but some of these topics remain viable years later.

I'm pretty new to saddle hunting......got a used saddle early this fall that I am liking a lot. It came with 9mm Trophyline linemans and 11mm unknown teather with an orange Ropeman 1. After several saddle hunts, it is working well, but last evening I was looking at the Ropeman with the same minor misgivings as the OP had about 'what if'? I like the suggestion of a prusik knot as it is simple, but they have to be under tension to hold in place. How would you make that happen below a Ropeman? Would the prusik need to be attached to the saddle as well so it would lock up should the Ropeman slide?

By the way, I have a Predator 11mm teather rope with sewn loop from EWO and a new Ropeman on the waym along with some Black Diamond carabiners, so that 'unknown' factor is dispelled. Sunday evening I hunted from a pre-set fixed stand and did not feel nearly as secure as in my saddle.....and I have hunted that way for decades.
Personally, I've never had my Ropeman even think about sliding. But, I don't suppose it's impossible. If you're wanting a Prussic to back it up, most will tell you to have it above the Ropeman so in case the Ropeman damages the rope, the Prussic is on undamaged rope. I have the Ropeman connecting tether to bridge and I connect my linesman to a Prussic above that once I'm at hunting height. Kind of a double back-up. I'm not where I can see my Ropeman at the moment, so I can't remember if yours is the one with the wide less aggressive teeth or the small "needly" teeth. The former is much less likely to chew up your rope. The latter will put much more wear and tear on the rope. Welcome to the saddle hunting family! I've been at it for several years now and haven't looked at my climber stand since. Have fun and be safe!
 
Personally, I've never had my Ropeman even think about sliding. But, I don't suppose it's impossible. If you're wanting a Prussic to back it up, most will tell you to have it above the Ropeman so in case the Ropeman damages the rope, the Prussic is on undamaged rope. I have the Ropeman connecting tether to bridge and I connect my linesman to a Prussic above that once I'm at hunting height. Kind of a double back-up. I'm not where I can see my Ropeman at the moment, so I can't remember if yours is the one with the wide less aggressive teeth or the small "needly" teeth. The former is much less likely to chew up your rope. The latter will put much more wear and tear on the rope. Welcome to the saddle hunting family! I've been at it for several years now and haven't looked at my climber stand since. Have fun and be safe!
I tried to post a pix of my Ropeman, but SH would not allow it because the 'file was too big'? Anyway, the teeth are parallell lines and not "needly" teeth. My current Teather is in excellent shape with no sign of wear. I don't think the fellow I got it from used it too much. And thanks for the kind welcome.....learning every time and gaining confidence.
 
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I tried to post a pix of my Ropeman, but SH would not allow it because the 'file was too big'? Anyway, the teetch are parallell lines and not "needly" teeth. My current Teather is in excellent shape with no sign of wear. I don't think the fellow I got it from used it too much. And thanks for the kind welcome.....learning every time and gaining confidence.
Your Ropeman is the one that is easier on your rope. I see no wear on my tether from my Ropeman which is same style as yours. In fact, the area of my tether that goes around tree has more wear from tree bark. At some point, I may swap ends on my tether to put the fresh, unused end around tree. I am also learning all the time. Partly from my own practice and partly from this forum. Lots of useful knowledge shared here by folks with much more experience than me. Happy hunting!
 
Sorry if I am bringing a 'zombie' thread back to life from 2017....hope that is kosher......but some of these topics remain viable years later.

I'm pretty new to saddle hunting......got a used saddle early this fall that I am liking a lot. It came with 9mm Trophyline linemans and 11mm unknown teather with an orange Ropeman 1. After several saddle hunts, it is working well, but last evening I was looking at the Ropeman with the same minor misgivings as the OP had about 'what if'? I like the suggestion of a prusik knot as it is simple, but they have to be under tension to hold in place. How would you make that happen below a Ropeman? Would the prusik need to be attached to the saddle as well so it would lock up should the Ropeman slide?

By the way, I have a Predator 11mm teather rope with sewn loop from EWO and a new Ropeman on the waym along with some Black Diamond carabiners, so that 'unknown' factor is dispelled. Sunday evening I hunted from a pre-set fixed stand and did not feel nearly as secure as in my saddle.....and I have hunted that way for decades.
You don't backup a device below it. It serves no purpose if the ascender cuts the rope. You would install a friction hitch above the ropeman and attach it to the the carabiner your ropeman is on or a separate carabiner.

The ropeman won't slip if you are using rope that is within the proper size range. The smaller you go the more likely the rope is to cut in a shock loading situation. This would be the reason for backing up the ropeman with a friciton hitch above the device. The ropeman is designed for positioning and ascending a rope, not falling on a rope. It is perfectly safe for a lineman's belt or a tether.

The NY Saddle Hunter youtube helped me a lot when I was getting started. This a good one on backing up an ascender:
 
You don't backup a device below it. It serves no purpose if the ascender cuts the rope. You would install a friction hitch above the ropeman and attach it to the the carabiner your ropeman is on or a separate carabiner.

The ropeman won't slip if you are using rope that is within the proper size range. The smaller you go the more likely the rope is to cut in a shock loading situation. This would be the reason for backing up the ropeman with a friciton hitch above the device. The ropeman is designed for positioning and ascending a rope, not falling on a rope. It is perfectly safe for a lineman's belt or a tether.

The NY Saddle Hunter youtube helped me a lot when I was getting started. This a good one on backing up an ascender:
Thanks so much for sharing the video. That is very reasonable in terms of both cost and solution for a minimalist backup on the teather using a Ropeman. Now I will need to find some suitable prusik rope for the 11mm Predator teather on the way.
 
Thanks so much for sharing the video. That is very reasonable in terms of both cost and solution for a minimalist backup on the teather using a Ropeman. Now I will need to find some suitable prusik rope for the 11mm Predator teather on the way.

The problem with backing up a Ropeman with a friction hitch is that in a fall a friction hitch slips some length before it catches. That length is probably determined by a variety of factors like how the hitch is dressed, condition of rope, material of rope, length of fall, etc. I think there is a 0% chance that the prusik in the video above would have enough rope to catch in a fall significant enough that the Ropeman shears the tether.

In the video he demonstrates that it takes two hands to slack the ropeman/friction hitch combo, so the only thing he is gaining by using the Ropeman is the ability to adjust the tether one handed in one direction. Many hithes with a tender will adjust single handedly in both directions. Even if it takes two hands to take up slack with a friction hitch almost all of them can be adjusted down the tether with one hand, so you don't really gain anything by using a Ropeman/friction hitch combo over just using a friction hitch.
 
The problem with backing up a Ropeman with a friction hitch is that in a fall a friction hitch slips some length before it catches. That length is probably determined by a variety of factors like how the hitch is dressed, condition of rope, material of rope, length of fall, etc. I think there is a 0% chance that the prusik in the video above would have enough rope to catch in a fall significant enough that the Ropeman shears the tether.

In the video he demonstrates that it takes two hands to slack the ropeman/friction hitch combo, so the only thing he is gaining by using the Ropeman is the ability to adjust the tether one handed in one direction. Many hithes with a tender will adjust single handedly in both directions. Even if it takes two hands to take up slack with a friction hitch almost all of them can be adjusted down the tether with one hand, so you don't really gain anything by using a Ropeman/friction hitch combo over just using a friction hitch.
I agree to an extent however…. Factors to consider a) is the hitch above already snagged tightly? That will limit the slip some, b) if a fall occurred, the ropeman would absorb 1000 lbs of that fall force before it broke the rope and engaged the hitch meaning the hitch would only receive the residual force post the ropeman failure, which theoretically would be much less than falling solely on a friction hitch. Less force means less slip especially if the hitch was already tight
 
I agree to an extent however…. Factors to consider a) is the hitch above already snagged tightly? That will limit the slip some, b) if a fall occurred, the ropeman would absorb 1000 lbs of that fall force before it broke the rope and engaged the hitch meaning the hitch would only receive the residual force post the ropeman failure, which theoretically would be much less than falling solely on a friction hitch. Less force means less slip especially if the hitch was already tight
That's the exact thing I was about to mention. Since I use my linesman rope connected to a Prussic about 18" above my Ropeman, I have equal tension on the Ropeman and my backup Prussic at all times once at hunting height. The way I have it set up means zero slide of the Prussic. I'm more likely to croak in a car accident on my way out hunting than from a fall!
 
In the discussed configuration, the RM 1 could shred the rope and then the Pruisic would have no stopper knot below it. Depending on the condition of the remaining rope, it may still hold. I'm only thinking the pruisic needs to be as high as possible above the RM 1 to give it time to catch.
 
A properly tied hitch/rope setup, especially something like the Sticht hitch, could negate the use of a mechanical device... I have and run both, and trust both, but my main use tether and lineman's both have Arbsession hitches with the TX5 tenders. Another saddle has both with a Beal Jammy sling in a Sticht Hitch without a tender.
 
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I agree to an extent however…. Factors to consider a) is the hitch above already snagged tightly? That will limit the slip some, b) if a fall occurred, the ropeman would absorb 1000 lbs of that fall force before it broke the rope and engaged the hitch meaning the hitch would only receive the residual force post the ropeman failure, which theoretically would be much less than falling solely on a friction hitch. Less force means less slip especially if the hitch was already tight

If a person is adjusting the hitch using the Ropeman as a tender I think the hitch would rarely be tight enough to catch, unless that person makes an effort to set the hitch every time he adjusts it. But in light of your points I’ll adjust my estimate to IMO there is almost 0% chance that hitch catches. :)


Having to set or weight the hitch every time it is adjusted to give it a chance to actually work ties into my second point. There isn’t any appreciable gains in “ease of use” by combining a Ropeman and a hitch.
 
For folks that feel like they need to back up everything and worry about safety margins on climbing rated gear, you are probably best served hunting from the ground.

Climbing gear is rated to give margin for climbers who may fall on their gear. Learn how to keep slack out of your system. It cannot be stated enough, a saddle set up is for fall prevention, NOT fall arrest. I currently used a KONG duck on 8mm rope with no back up, only one bridge and only one tether.
 
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