• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Saddle Death… Stay safe out there.

I don’t think 60 year old men should climb trees with saddle gear either. Not because they can’t. Because WHEN they get injured, the cost of that injury is on average, much higher than the cost to a 25 year old with the same injury. We have tons of older members climbing trees. I support their right to do it. I also know there’s some with higher bone density, flexibility, dexterity, spatial awareness, training, etc. than many 25 year olds.

Just because I don’t think the risk is worth it, and just because those older guys who climb this way do think it’s worth it, doesn’t change the facts. A 60 year old breaking a rib, or an ankle, or a hip, or a back, is at far greater risk of losing significant quality of life, than a 25 year old. Pretending that isn’t so, is dumb.

I’m not 25. It’s ok to say things out loud that don’t make us feel good.
While I don't disagree with your points. I am sixty years old, almost 61and I can out run, out climb, climb higher and faster than a lot of 25 year olds. I think the whole key here is to KNOW the risks and your limitations and if the activity is not suited to your abilities then don't do it. Unfortunately a lot of people are not honest with themselves when judging the abilities. Most people don't think of the "oh sh*t what if this happens factor" and this gets them in trouble.
 
As a big guy (315 lbs this morning), I have not taken any offense to the comments about weight and physical conditioning playing a part in choosing how we hunt. I'm 6'3", so I carry the weight well and don't look as heavy as I am, but I'm also not as flexible as I used to be and dealing with joint injuries due to the weight and my previous profession. So for me, things like one-sticking are off the table, just because I can't see a way I could do it comfortably and safely in my current state. There is nothing wrong with admitting you shouldn't do something because of the physical limitations you have based on your current weight and ability.

I choose to climb SRT and on occasion 2TC because it's within my ability to do safely and confidently, and all the gear I'm using is rated for my phat ass. Part of the problem I have as a big guy is finding things that are rated for my weight, which is why I like the systems I'm using now because it's all designed to carry more than I weigh. I see nothing wrong with the folks on this site that are pointing out that a persons physical attributes have an impact on their ability to climb, self rescue, and the additional risk layers it adds if something were to go wrong. My wife says all the time "when you fall, you fall hard!" I'm confident that if I fall 10 feet, its going to significantly damage me more than someone half my weight falling the same distance and landing the same way.

2 things I see a lot that disturb me:

One is seeing some people chase the lighter and quicker options but forgoing the safety aspect. If it takes longer for me to get set up so I can climb safely, so be it. Or else I don't need to be in a tree. And there should be nothing wrong with others calling out that risk when its from a place of concern, which is what I consistently see on this site. Lots of concern for doing this thing we love, safely.

Two is this glorification of being overweight/obese. I agree that no one should be shamed for how they look, but we as a society shouldn't be celebrating these unhealthy lifestyles. If you choose to be overweight/obese, that's your choice, but you have to come to terms you may not be able to do all the things that a smaller or healthier person can. And I'm by no means trying to say that a larger person is inherently unhealthy, it depends on their body type. But if you're bigger, and I say this a member of that group, we have to come to terms with the limitations and risks that come along with it. To ignore that is dangerous itself.

And that's all before considering other underlying health issues that may also impact your abilities.
 
If I was the boss and had to make a physical ability test prior to someone climbing and sitting in a saddle for hours it would probably be semi difficult. Touch ur toes, 5 pull ups, 20 push ups and 20 situps, and 50 butterfly kicks and maybe some duck walking...

What would ur requirements be if u were in charge of others safety?...just physical requirements...rope training comes later after they pass the physical
 
While I don't disagree with your points. I am sixty years old, almost 61and I can out run, out climb, climb higher and faster than a lot of 25 year olds. I think the whole key here is to KNOW the risks and your limitations and if the activity is not suited to your abilities then don't do it. Unfortunately a lot of people are not honest with themselves when judging the abilities. Most people don't think of the "oh sh*t what if this happens factor" and this gets them in trouble.

I literally make your points in my post, almost verbatim. People can’t separate their individual experience from the bigger picture. Human nature is tough to overcome I reckon…
 
As a big guy (315 lbs this morning), I have not taken any offense to the comments about weight and physical conditioning playing a part in choosing how we hunt. I'm 6'3", so I carry the weight well and don't look as heavy as I am, but I'm also not as flexible as I used to be and dealing with joint injuries due to the weight and my previous profession. So for me, things like one-sticking are off the table, just because I can't see a way I could do it comfortably and safely in my current state. There is nothing wrong with admitting you shouldn't do something because of the physical limitations you have based on your current weight and ability.

I choose to climb SRT and on occasion 2TC because it's within my ability to do safely and confidently, and all the gear I'm using is rated for my phat ass. Part of the problem I have as a big guy is finding things that are rated for my weight, which is why I like the systems I'm using now because it's all designed to carry more than I weigh. I see nothing wrong with the folks on this site that are pointing out that a persons physical attributes have an impact on their ability to climb, self rescue, and the additional risk layers it adds if something were to go wrong. My wife says all the time "when you fall, you fall hard!" I'm confident that if I fall 10 feet, its going to significantly damage me more than someone half my weight falling the same distance and landing the same way.

2 things I see a lot that disturb me:

One is seeing some people chase the lighter and quicker options but forgoing the safety aspect. If it takes longer for me to get set up so I can climb safely, so be it. Or else I don't need to be in a tree. And there should be nothing wrong with others calling out that risk when its from a place of concern, which is what I consistently see on this site. Lots of concern for doing this thing we love, safely.

Two is this glorification of being overweight/obese. I agree that no one should be shamed for how they look, but we as a society shouldn't be celebrating these unhealthy lifestyles. If you choose to be overweight/obese, that's your choice, but you have to come to terms you may not be able to do all the things that a smaller or healthier person can. And I'm by no means trying to say that a larger person is inherently unhealthy, it depends on their body type. But if you're bigger, and I say this a member of that group, we have to come to terms with the limitations and risks that come along with it. To ignore that is dangerous itself.

And that's all before considering other underlying health issues that may also impact your abilities.

Thank you for your reasonable response, especially from your specific perspective.
 
I don’t think 60 year old men should climb trees with saddle gear either. Not because they can’t. Because WHEN they get injured, the cost of that injury is on average, much higher than the cost to a 25 year old with the same injury. We have tons of older members climbing trees. I support their right to do it. I also know there’s some with higher bone density, flexibility, dexterity, spatial awareness, training, etc. than many 25 year olds.

Just because I don’t think the risk is worth it, and just because those older guys who climb this way do think it’s worth it, doesn’t change the facts. A 60 year old breaking a rib, or an ankle, or a hip, or a back, is at far greater risk of losing significant quality of life, than a 25 year old. Pretending that isn’t so, is dumb.

I’m not 25. It’s ok to say things out loud that don’t make us feel good.
I'm going to bring up again, that I think we have to distinguish saddle hunting from some of the different climbing methods that have become associated with saddle hunting. Read some of my thoughts on my personal choice for using wild edge stepps as my climbing system in my stepps love thread I just created.

My father is 70. He saddle hunts. He climbs a tree using screw in steps like he has for probably 60 years. Ok 50. They used to use giant nails before screw in steps, or nail on boards to climb. If he was hunting in a treestand he would be climbing the exact same way. There is nothing inherently more dangerous about saddle hunting than tree stand hunting other than the climbing methods some people have chosen to use with whatever training they do or don't have on it.
 
Cross-link to promote education. Recommend the video to anyone who wants to know more about the risks, and how quickly a person can be overcome by suspension trauma. For folks interested in all the details, there's also a link to the medical paper at the bottom of the same post.

 
Thoughts and prayers to his family. We know the dangers and I appreciate all the safety things we talk about on this forum. For me switching to hitches and no longer using my CT Roll N Lok was one of those

Let’s all be safe this season so we can all come home alive. Not the way I want to be reminded of safety. We are all here to support each other and help each other become more safe
What's wrong with a CT Roll-N-Lock? Asking because I recently purchased one and as soon as I have a saddle, was planning to get familiar with it.
 
I'm going to bring up again, that I think we have to distinguish saddle hunting from some of the different climbing methods that have become associated with saddle hunting. Read some of my thoughts on my personal choice for using wild edge stepps as my climbing system in my stepps love thread I just created.

What kind of safety systems do guys using hang ons use other than a safety harness when they get to the hang on
 
I think most of us are equally safe saddle hunting. Where we differ is from the ground to our platform.
Some want to drag ropes around and tie pretty, dressed knots in the woods...Some use steps.. some spike it up the tree.
My point is we make it as easy to hunt or as hard to as we want. It comes down to priorities.
Is yours to kill deer? Do you need to climb a tree to do it?
When I started out I wanted to climb higher, get down faster. I wanted to.... I dont even know.
It cost alot of money and time to find out I was killing more deer off the ground then in a tree. Just so I could post in the contest last year I climbed up a stick and a half and stuck one... so I could say I could... then I disconnected my tether, climbed down my one stick and aider and jumped the last 3 feet to earth.
Saddle, deer and dinner. Those were the priorities.
Above the #1 of coming home to my family.
I'm sorry for the gentleman and his family.
BUT...
IMHO this was a climbing accident, not a saddle hunting. We have no reason to need to be arborists to put some red on the ground.
 
I'm going to bring up again, that I think we have to distinguish saddle hunting from some of the different climbing methods that have become associated with saddle hunting. Read some of my thoughts on my personal choice for using wild edge stepps as my climbing system in my stepps love thread I just created.

My father is 70. He saddle hunts. He climbs a tree using screw in steps like he has for probably 60 years. Ok 50. They used to use giant nails before screw in steps, or nail on boards to climb. If he was hunting in a treestand he would be climbing the exact same way. There is nothing inherently more dangerous about saddle hunting than tree stand hunting other than the climbing methods some people have chosen to use with whatever training they do or don't have on it.

I agree. However, the saddle enables methods that are not possible with a tree stand harness. All methods that rely on rope hanging (SRT, JRB, one stick, 2TC) should not be assumed as safer just because you’re always attached to a tree. biggest learnings here for me, and I’m still relatively new to bowhunting and saddlehunting:

1. CLimbing alone is inherently high risk, particularly if you have not mastered self-rescue techniques, or are in not great shape. My personal prereq is 5 pull-ups. If i can’t do those, I’ll start blind hunting, or set up ladder stands. . I don’t agree with WHEN you get injured, i feel climbing injuries can be prevented, and i feel advanced techniques are the key. (Why arborists yielding chainsaws all day use ropes).
2. All techniques relying on ropes should be considered advanced. This community should create a free YouTube video course to reinforce a bunch of basic carabiner/rope/self rescue techniques, how to tie a Munter/Prussic, alpine butterfly, etc. as a prerequisite to advanced techniques, to be practiced at ground level. Or better yet, an in person course that we have the vendors provide at local meets where they can also sell their products, Tethrd included. We should split the platform/climbing techniques forum into 3 forums: platforms/ROS, climbing sticks and standard climbing techniques (sticks and bolts, maybe allow 1 cable aider), advanced techniques (1 stick, JRB, SRT, DRT, all rope techniques, 2TC, aider assisted). Just because an accomplished lanky climber can teach a 13 year old to 1 stick on YouTube, that doesn’t mean you don’t need to learn a lot of basics about knots, hitches, self rescue, static falls, etc, etc as a prerequisite for it to be considered safe.

This all said, i truly believe the advanced techniques can be safer and more efficient than sticks, but only aFTER we master some basic skills, with reliable, simple equipment.

3. I know about suspension trauma from hunter safety course, but I’ve not really heard it mentioned here. some great info on tether slack that has probably saved a few people here, but not much else. If there’s threads on saddles best suited for support of advanced climbing techniques/suspension trauma prevention, I’ve not seen them.

4. I think some of the criticism from the pros on here, while warranted, might go a bit too far. This is a saddlehunting forum, it’s a risky activity to begin with. I personally don’t believe the victim of this accident would wish us to stop innovating new techniques as a result of this. I very much appreciate John RB, and others on here that share their techniques, even ones that are slightly riskier. We just need to carefully couch them as advanced, and make sure people go through some basics first.

While we don’t know exactly what Happened, these are themes. I think that with lots of seasons opening this saturday, it’s good to allow this thread to persist a few more days, maybe we save someone from doing their first rappel attempt after their opening day evening sit. But after that, i think we should move on for sake of the family, IMO.
 
Just found this. Maybe it was posted here already.


This was more a climbing accident, as has been pointed out. Saddles don't need any bad press that they don't deserve. Also, accidents from regular tree stands are so common that they don't even get mentioned in the press.
 
This was more a climbing accident, as has been pointed out. Saddles don't need any bad press that they don't deserve. Also, accidents from regular tree stands are so common that they don't even get mentioned in the press.

I get why there’s an attempt to distinguish between saddle hunting and climbing but not sure I agree. Most/all hunters climb a tree to hunt from a saddle, so I consider that a required part of the saddle hunting process. The “bad” press has led me and many others new to the sport, which is most of us, to re-think the what, why, how’s and what-if’s of what we are doing, which for me has been good. Every climb has a new set of circumstances that you will never exhaust; for example, I just got caught in a surprise thunderstorm my first weekend hunting and one-sticking/rappelling right at dusk. Needless to say I haven’t done any hunting much less any rappelling in a thunderstorm. Much of what I currently do to ascend/descend the tree I learned on this “saddle hunting” forum. I am likely guilty of getting caught up in the novelty and challenge of saddle hunting and may be advancing my technique faster than my experience dictates. However, I have some rock climbing experience and consider myself in good shape, and also consider myself very meticulous when learning something new. With all that said, I don’t think the average person on here considers saddle hunting separate from climbing. I do agree though that there are more difficult/technical climbing methods and that those may not fit with “traditional” saddle hunting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I don’t think 60 year old men should climb trees with saddle gear either. Not because they can’t. Because WHEN they get injured, the cost of that injury is on average, much higher than the cost to a 25 year old with the same injury. We have tons of older members climbing trees. I support their right to do it. I also know there’s some with higher bone density, flexibility, dexterity, spatial awareness, training, etc. than many 25 year olds.

Just because I don’t think the risk is worth it, and just because those older guys who climb this way do think it’s worth it, doesn’t change the facts. A 60 year old breaking a rib, or an ankle, or a hip, or a back, is at far greater risk of losing significant quality of life, than a 25 year old. Pretending that isn’t so, is dumb.

I’m not 25. It’s ok to say things out loud that don’t make us feel good.
Man if we followed your logic old people couldn't even ride a bicycle because they can fall off and get hurt. LOL no really I think its great that older men still hunt and saddle hunt. If we stopped doing things that were dangerous because of the consequences of an injury than we couldn't even drive down the road because you are more likely to have a car wreck than have an injury from a saddle fall.
 
Just found this. Maybe it was posted here already.

I guess one good thing(or bad maybe in this circumstance) that I read in the article is that even if you get inverted unconscious you still cant fall out of your saddle.
 
Back
Top