Saddle hunting height

[DSInfinite]

Deer can be killed 100’ up a tree. I’ve killed them 25’ or so.

Sure... but at a 100 you might as well be dropping a spear!

 

[HappyChappy]

Sure... but at a 100 you might as well be dropping a spear!

Fully agree!

 

[DSInfinite]

Height in the tree doesn't matter as far as shot angle. Bend at the waist, aim for the exit hole. Some guys aim low. I set up my bow to hit 2" low to accomodate . On really close shots it's different. I use my 30 yd pin for 5 yds and under.. I suggest practicing it before you attempt it.

The key here is practice. A lot of noobs won't register that a near perpendicular shot won't hit as aimed. Gravity has that effect on things, even arrows. Shoot flat at 30 is a bit different than 30 in a tree.
1simplemann is right on with this... trajectory can be deceiving when you're hanging of of tree

 

[JDHoosier]

I saw it mentioned once in the thread but remembering to bend at the waist is very important. I feel that's why some guys feel the need to "aim low" from a stand. It got me a couple of times on close shots until I went home and practiced from elevation. I spine shot two deer one season and forced myself to figure out why I was doing it. I figured it out by shooting off of my deck that's over my walkout basement.

 

[AttackMode]

I saw it mentioned once in the thread but remembering to bend at the waist is very important. I feel that's why some guys feel the need to "aim low" from a stand. It got me a couple of times on close shots until I went home and practiced from elevation. I spine shot two deer one season and forced myself to figure out why I was doing it. I figured it out by shooting off of my deck that's over my walkout basement.

Aiming low also counteracts deer dropping at the sound of your bow and the arrow flying through the air. Bending at the waist won't stop that.

 

[JDHoosier]

Aiming low also counteracts deer dropping at the sound of your bow and the arrow flying through the air. Bending at the waist won't stop that.

Correct. In my mind I guess I was thinking about being higher and having the deer within 15-20 yards.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

It is situational but I try to be 20 feet up most of the time. There are some early season scenarios where this is not necessary as there is plenty of cover. Once the leaves fall I like to go higher. There are times I sit on the ground if that is the only option. When I use my Lone Wolf hand climber I often go 25 to 27 feet.

I think there is a scent and sight advantage to being at least 18 feet up and higher from my limited experience. The times I get picked are times I am lower than 18 feet.

 

[1simplemann]

Aiming low also counteracts deer dropping at the sound of your bow and the arrow flying through the air. Bending at the waist won't stop that.

Not bending at the waist will cause you to hit high. Add the deer dropping and the fact that your aiming downhill. That's a lot to take into consideration. However it can be done. You just have to practice for it.

 

[HappyChappy]

I agree with others that it’s situational. The whole idea that scent goes over their backs is strictly conditional.
I used to cling to the “higher the better” mantra, but after watching milkweed for several years from my high perches, I realized I was often wasting time and energy to reach heights that gained me no net advantage. Fickle air currents, dropping thermals, very light & variable winds, and calm days will usually not carry your scent in a straight line over deer—at least not deer that are approaching your tree from beyond bow range. In these cases, hunting as low as possible while still retaining a sight advantage over brush would seem to be the best height. Here, the idea is that the falling air currents would concentrate your odor on the ground much closer to the base of the tree than if you were hunting high.

As I’ve stated in several places recently, I now hunt with just two sticks—each equipped with a 3-step aider. It gives me the option to hunt as high as I want/need by one sticking with my top stick. Yet, without doing any one-stick moves, I can still get my platform to 18’—and do so very quickly and quietly. Some will say why not just one-stick all the time—it will save you the weight of carrying an extra stick? For me, not *having* to one-stick climb every time is worth the weight of the extra stick.

Some may still argue that higher is better and that’s fine. I’ve enjoyed being liberated from a “must be higher” mindset this season. And I’ve had my best year ever for having bucks within bow range on public land. Killed my PB on public this year and my stand’s platform was 12’ high. And as I’ve mentioned earlier, fickle winds from being sky high have messed me up from 25-30’ in years past—-never allowing the deer to close the 40yd mark for a bow shot. To each his own, but I wanted to mention my experiences in case it helps just one person escape the “always hunt high” illusion. The word “always” is like “never”—neither belong very well in the whitetail woods.

 

[Plebe]

I do think the steep archery shot is a trickier shot, where typical mid body hits can somewhat surprisingly result in single lung only wounds with the arrow traveling below the far side lung.

But "steep" needs to be defined and teased out.

To get an idea of how much difference there is in downward angles of arrow flight in different shot scenarios, plugging values into a right triangle calculator works well. Here is one such tool: https://www.calculator.net/right-triangle-calculator.html. I look at the angle from horizontal (a). (true height is relative to point of impact, not ground level, and height of arrow rest, not feet, if you are taking a hard look, but the comparisons for climbing height work well enough in the general sense).

20 yd shot:
25ft=22.6deg
20ft=18.4deg
15ft=14deg
10ft=9.5deg

10yd shot
25ft=39.8deg
20ft=33.7deg
15ft=26.6deg
10ft=18.4deg

Now consider a deer's chest width, and, by using those angles, you can determine the height of entrance and exit and see the result.

For example: a 1ft thick deer (just for easy math) at 10yds and 25ft height.
Using:
(a) = 39.806deg
b=31ft (10yds + 1ft)
we calculate:
a=25.83373ft

.83373 x 12=10inches from entrance to exit.

Assuming my math is correct.

10inches is a lot of delta between entrance and exit. I consider this a steep shot, and a tricky one.

 

[kyler1945]

I do think the steep archery shot is a trickier shot, where typical mid body hits can somewhat surprisingly result in single lung only wounds with the arrow traveling below the far side lung.

But "steep" needs to be defined and teased out.

To get an idea of how much difference there is in downward angles of arrow flight in different shot scenarios, plugging values into a right triangle calculator works well. Here is one such tool: https://www.calculator.net/right-triangle-calculator.html. I look at the angle from horizontal (a). (true height is relative to point of impact, not ground level, and height of arrow rest, not feet, if you are taking a hard look, but the comparisons for climbing height work well enough in the general sense).

20 yd shot:
25ft=22.6deg
20ft=18.4deg
15ft=14deg
10ft=9.5deg

10yd shot
25ft=39.8deg
20ft=33.7deg
15ft=26.6deg
10ft=18.4deg

Now consider a deer's chest width, and, by using those angles, you can determine the height of entrance and exit and see the result.

For example: a 1ft thick deer (just for easy math) at 10yds and 25ft height.
Using:
(a) = 39.806deg
b=31ft (10yds + 1ft)
we calculate:
a=25.83373ft

.83373 x 12=10inches from entrance to exit.

Assuming my math is correct.

10inches is a lot of delta between entrance and exit. I consider this a steep shot, and a tricky one.

If a deer is close, and I’m up high, I prefer one of two scenarios:

facing straight to me or away. At 5 yards, I’m confident I’ll hit +-1.5” left and right. I aim dead center of spine. I’ve yet to not drop a deer I’ve purposely spine shot them. I’ve also drawn down on a couple because I couldn’t get settled due to body positioning and be confident I could make the shot. Hitting high or low here doesn’t matter - knowing that does wonders for shot concentration.

or, I like a quarter in either direction. This is more about terminal performance of the arrow. If I’m taking away some of my margin for error, I want the arrow doing more work when it enters. If I risk only getting one lung because of shot angle, I like adding stomach, liver, heart, offside shoulder bone, etc, as much as possible to the list of things the arrow might encounter. Extend the path of damage.

Agree close steep shots reduce margin of error. I’ve trailed a lot of one lung hits for hunting buddies. It’s not fun.

 

[DroptineKrazy]

Don't forget guys. If the deer is at 5 yards there is also the option of letting the deer get farther out for a better shot angle but that might burn you with no shot. The key to the shot angle problem is to just practice a lot from height with your hunting gear under as real conditions as possible and you will become ''One with the arrow" and know exactly where to aim at different angles and distances. It's a great confidence boost too. I usually shoot all spring and most of the summer with my feet on the ground but about 2 or 3 weeks before the season starts I am shooting from a tree in my yard at unknown distances at my 3 D big buck target. I know not everyone can do this but for those who can it is 100% worth the effort. Also helps out with climbing methods with all the practice.

 

[1simplemann]

Don't forget guys. If the deer is at 5 yards there is also the option of letting the deer get farther out for a better shot angle but that might burn you with no shot. The key to the shot angle problem is to just practice a lot from height with your hunting gear under as real conditions as possible and you will become ''One with the arrow" and know exactly where to aim at different angles and distances. It's a great confidence boost too. I usually shoot all spring and most of the summer with my feet on the ground but about 2 or 3 weeks before the season starts I am shooting from a tree in my yard at unknown distances at my 3 D big buck target. I know not everyone can do this but for those who can it is 100% worth the effort. Also helps out with climbing methods with all the practice.

That is an option. However it's been my experience over the years that you had better shoot at the 1st opportunity you get especially if your trying to shoot a a mature buck. They have a habit of getting away if you wait too long. Ideal shot opportunities on mature bucks are hard to come by. You better capitalize as soon a possible. The key to this is being prepared. That can mean alot of things. Shooting the right equipment, tuning your bow, Practicing that 5 yd shot, shooting unknown distances, practicing your climbing method, clearing out your entrance and exit routes, pre-setting your trees, trimming out that one branch to that specific trail, post season scouting, etc. Doing the work ahead of time so that when that one opportunity comes, your ready and can take advantage of it. It alot of hard work. Some people call it luck. I have a definition of luck. Luck is when PRACTICE, PREPARATION and PERSISTANCE meets opportunity. If you do those three P's then most likely you will succeed. I've had many opportunities over the years where I didn't capitalize. When that happens, I always ask myself a question. Why didn't I get that deer? It's almost always one of those three P's. Then I try to change that so next time I'm ready. With that being said, If your just trying to kill a deer or any buck and you apply the previously stated hard work then waiting for the ideal shot opportunity would be best. If they get away, another opportunity will soon present itself. (Usually) LOL. It's deer hunting and you can't predict it all.

 

[DSInfinite]

@1simplemann a guy I once knew was very fond of saying “preparation is not wasted time”
Make all the difference!

 

[1simplemann]

@1simplemann a guy I once knew was very fond of saying “preparation is not wasted time”
Make all the difference!

It's so true. Last winter and spring we put ton of time into pre season prep work. In the 1st 10 hunts this year, we either killed a P & Y, had a mature buck in range, or had a up and coming rack buck in range. Most of it due to the preparation.

 

[DroptineKrazy]

That is an option. However it's been my experience over the years that you had better shoot at the 1st opportunity you get especially if your trying to shoot a a mature buck.

This is true but I was talking deer in general not just mature bucks.

 

[1simplemann]

Don't forget guys. If the deer is at 5 yards there is also the option of letting the deer get farther out for a better shot angle but that might burn you with no shot. The key to the shot angle problem is to just practice a lot from height with your hunting gear under as real conditions as possible and you will become ''One with the arrow" and know exactly where to aim at different angles and distances. It's a great confidence boost too. I usually shoot all spring and most of the summer with my feet on the ground but about 2 or 3 weeks before the season starts I am shooting from a tree in my yard at unknown distances at my 3 D big buck target. I know not everyone can do this but for those who can it is 100% worth the effort. Also helps out with climbing methods with all the practice.

I agree totally. On deer in general, it's better to wait especially if your inexperienced. On mature bucks? No way. Shoot the 1st opportunity you get. It'll burn you more times than not if you wait. Case in point. My hunting partner shot a nice 10pt this year at 6-7 yds, 23' high. He tipped over in sight. High left lung entrance, low right lung exit. Anyway, he came in fast and blew threw the 1st shooting lane at 15yds. He then started to circle around the tree and stopped perfectly broadside at 6-7yds. IF he continued on that path, he most likely would have given my partner a 20yd quartering away shot. However, Why take the the chance? A lot can go wrong from 6 yd to 20yd. Anything can happen. My partner had practiced for a 5 yd shot from high in a tree and knew he could make it. He shot him perfectly. He was rewarded with 2nd largest buck he's ever taken w/ a bow.

 

[JDHoosier]

If a deer is close, and I’m up high, I prefer one of two scenarios:

facing straight to me or away. At 5 yards, I’m confident I’ll hit +-1.5” left and right. I aim dead center of spine. I’ve yet to not drop a deer I’ve purposely spine shot them. I’ve also drawn down on a couple because I couldn’t get settled due to body positioning and be confident I could make the shot. Hitting high or low here doesn’t matter - knowing that does wonders for shot concentration.

or, I like a quarter in either direction. This is more about terminal performance of the arrow. If I’m taking away some of my margin for error, I want the arrow doing more work when it enters. If I risk only getting one lung because of shot angle, I like adding stomach, liver, heart, offside shoulder bone, etc, as much as possible to the list of things the arrow might encounter. Extend the path of damage.

Agree close steep shots reduce margin of error. I’ve trailed a lot of one lung hits for hunting buddies. It’s not fun.

I had a doe once that came in straight on and ended up turning broadside then quartering away hard before I felt comfortable drawing on her. She was less than 5 yards away from the stand when I shot. The arrow went in between her shoulder and spine, hitting the interior part of both lungs and it managed to nick the aorta. That was the shortest non spine tracking job I've had.

 

[Plebe]

If a deer is close, and I’m up high, I prefer one of two scenarios:

facing straight to me or away. At 5 yards, I’m confident I’ll hit +-1.5” left and right. I aim dead center of spine. I’ve yet to not drop a deer I’ve purposely spine shot them. I’ve also drawn down on a couple because I couldn’t get settled due to body positioning and be confident I could make the shot. Hitting high or low here doesn’t matter - knowing that does wonders for shot concentration.

or, I like a quarter in either direction. This is more about terminal performance of the arrow. If I’m taking away some of my margin for error, I want the arrow doing more work when it enters. If I risk only getting one lung because of shot angle, I like adding stomach, liver, heart, offside shoulder bone, etc, as much as possible to the list of things the arrow might encounter. Extend the path of damage.

Agree close steep shots reduce margin of error. I’ve trailed a lot of one lung hits for hunting buddies. It’s not fun.

I don't advocate these shots necessarily, but it is a good reckoning of factors effecting lethality if shooting in those scenarios...degree of difficulty, individual skill, terminal damage.

 

[1simplemann]

I had a doe once that came in straight on and ended up turning broadside then quartering away hard before I felt comfortable drawing on her. She was less than 5 yards away from the stand when I shot. The arrow went in between her shoulder and spine, hitting the interior part of both lungs and it managed to nick the aorta. That was the shortest non spine tracking job I've had.

Exactly! They don't go far. Good job.