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Safety challenge.

MattMan81

MattMan81

Well-Known Member
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Jan 13, 2020
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4,994
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The Mitten
Rules are simple. At ground level and with supervision. Take your main climbing method and descending method. Please use caution and only do so if you physically fit. Know your limits.
1. Invert your self and see if you can get back up.
2. Slightly elevate your self with climbing method. Have assistant remove climbing method. Stick, bolts, what ever. Simulate have such device fall away. Lower your self safely to the ground. Use caution if your on a lineman's belt. Maybe try that right at ground level. Not sure if you can simulate hanging on the tree with just a LB? @Fl Canopy Stalker ??
3. If you normal decent it to rappel. Set it up close to ground, and transition to another way down.
The point of the exercise is simulate what can go wrong, and do you really have the stuff to do it?
Hanging from your saddle with nothing under you is different.
I plan to do these as well. But want to challenge everyone else to try and report back. What worked, what didn't, and what are you gonna change.
 
I have system for "emergency" descent and I practice with it on occasion. I still need to try self-rescue from an inverted position.
 
I already tried steps 1-2 on Saturday after reading the death/safety thread. Neighbor guy came over half confused, half amused after he realized I was okay. Falling inverted would be terrifying and disorienting, but in a best-case inverted scenario as I practiced (of course not actually flipping yourself with momentum or smacking your head), it was relatively simple to right myself.

I need to try rappeling without a foot support and see how to make that work, or find an alternate way down.
 
MattMan81 said:
Rules are simple. At ground level and with supervision. Take your main climbing method and descending method. Please use caution and only do so if you physically fit. Know your limits.
1. Invert your self and see if you can get back up.
2. Slightly elevate your self with climbing method. Have assistant remove climbing method. Stick, bolts, what ever. Simulate have such device fall away. Lower your self safely to the ground. Use caution if your on a lineman's belt. Maybe try that right at ground level. Not sure if you can simulate hanging on the tree with just a LB? @Fl Canopy Stalker ??
3. If you normal decent it to rappel. Set it up close to ground, and transition to another way down.
The point of the exercise is simulate what can go wrong, and do you really have the stuff to do it?
Hanging from your saddle with nothing under you is different.
I plan to do these as well. But want to challenge everyone else to try and report back. What worked, what didn't, and what are you gonna change.
Click to expand...
You can simulate hanging by only your linesman loops/belt but your boys won’t be happy with you if you know what I mean (I am referring to an atomic wedgie style nutcracker)) make sure your leg straps are tight for this exercise
 
Loopwing said:
Rappelling without a foot support?
Click to expand...
Rappeling from a hang, not standing on anything, so your hitch is loaded (assuming non-mechanical device). Should be easy but best to test the hitch before you’re at 20’ and you realize the cousin-of-a-prusik you tied won’t let go. Happened to me once, wasn’t fun.
 
Marmuzz said:
Rappeling from a hang, not standing on anything, so your hitch is loaded (assuming non-mechanical device). Should be easy but best to test the hitch before you’re at 20’ and you realize the cousin-of-a-prusik you tied won’t let go. Happened to me once, wasn’t fun.
Click to expand...

If you are climbing on your rappel rope, you can do a couple of things:

1. Attach daisy chain or LB to tree and create foot loop. Stand in foot loop to unload main hitch. Setup rappel system. Rappel.

2. If you are on a leaning tree, and the lean pulls you away from the tree, Option 1 may not be possible. Because of this, you should carry a backup prusik or friction hitch. Attach prusik to rappel rope below main hitch. It should be long enough that you can stand in it or carry something else to attach to it to make a foot loop. Stand on backup hitch to unload main hitch. Slide main hitch down. Sit and lower backup hitch. Repeat until at ground level.

3. Tie a loop in rappel rope below main hitch with a figure 8 on a bight. Stand in loop. Slide main hitch down. Sit and untie loop. Retie another loop at lower height. Repeat until at ground level.

The ability to self rescue is one of the main reasons I got into saddle hunting in the first place. My journey started with an old, outdated upper-body-only treestand harness. I simulated a fall at ground level to see if I could rescue myself. It was painful, collapsed my chest, and I could do nothing to free myself. I cut that harness into pieces that day. Online research led me to a RCH. Smaller, lighter, more comfortable, and the ability to self rescue. The RCH led me to the Sit Drag. The Sit Drag led me to an Aero Hunter Kestrel. The rest is history.
 
Obviously there are situations that nobody can plan for, but I have tried to think of nearly every failure situation that could happen while climbing and what I could do to get myself out of it.

Another situation that nobody talks about is if you climb via your rappel rope only and do not carry a spare tether, what happens if you get your rappel rope stuck up in the tree? This happened to me once. The rope got stuck on a weird tree bump when I tried to pull it down. I had to ability to SRT back up to the girth hitch, but did not feel safe doing so since the girth hitch was not complete.

Solution: I used the opposite (ground) end of the rope to create another girth hitch so that I could one-stick climb back up to free the end that was stuck.

I carry a number of items in my pack and in my dump pouches for self rescue, and I always climb with my backpack on so that I have access to said items. Hopefully, I never have to use most of them, haha. :p
 
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With my system I am always on a weighted climbing line so if my stopping point (W.E. step) slipped out I go nowhere. Now when I need to unweight my climbing line to advance it up the tree I am connected by a cinched lanyard that is tight and no slack is introduced. Using aiders with sticks is another ball of wax and chance of a slip out is increased. I of course am using a hybrid srt device that I can ascend,hang and descend so some of the safety factors are already in place. I can't imagine a time when I would become inverted and also I use a climbing saddle not a hunting saddle.
 
Have you guys actually practiced?
My thoughts are I can plan for plan B to happen. But have I tried it. Things are easy to do when standing on a platform. I just need to try it in a much similar way. Like on a LB sucked to the tree. I may panic a little since I could have lost a lot of mobility. Or I just smashed the tree so my air is knocked out, or I cut my leg and bleeding. Maybe I jumped a few feet on my rappel line quickly and my knot or device jammed.
These other things could add some stress to the situation. So I am advocating we all actually try to safely simulate the rescue to know what sort of things will or can complicate it. Like being tight to the tree on a short rope. Try a bigger tree, a smaller tree. Smooth tree, ruff bark tree. Chances are if you take a fall it will be in darkness. So could you do it blind folded? Say you feel and it knocked your head lamp off.
I'm just lobbying we should take some time to practice those things so your memory will have some extra knowledge should it happen.
 
I am an advocate of having 2 connections especially when there is a possibility of kickout or unstable platform etc. We should always practice for as many unforeseen problems that might occur but has been reiterated numerous times don't allow slack into your system.
 
I did some rock climbing years ago - it is not so much being upside down as it is the shock from falling on a static rope (vs a dynamic). Always have your lines tight - no slack. Youd be surpised how little slack could jar you if you slipped. A slip can be a violent choatic experience, especially on a static rope that has slack in it.

Majority of tree stand accidents, this could include saddle hunting, are the transition from sticks/ladder to platform.
 
I have not tried this but. Three years ago when I got my first saddle I was not a 100% confident in the system. I spent a lot of time couple feet off the ground to build confidence. I made my self slip from platform while leaning around tree to see what would happen. Other times I would make myself go inverted and was able to right myself fairly easy even being a big guy. I’m sure being couple feet vs hunting height things change drastically. As far has having a backup plan well not gonna lie haven’t really thought about that until now :disappointed:. Guess that’s on my to do list.
 
PancreasBroke said:
I did some rock climbing years ago - it is not so much being upside down as it is the shock from falling on a static rope (vs a dynamic). Always have your lines tight - no slack. Youd be surpised how little slack could jar you if you slipped. A slip can be a violent choatic experience, especially on a static rope that has slack in it.

Majority of tree stand accidents, this could include saddle hunting, are the transition from sticks/ladder to platform.
Click to expand...
This. Ditto for me - climbing background. Throw even 6 inches of slack in the system and fall on it, you’ll never leave slack again. These are not dynamic ropes - nor should they be. Even rapping too quickly and sudden stop - ‘I’ve got that bruising feeling…’ sing it with me now…
 
I keep a variety of continuous loops and a Kong Duck with me as backups. Rarely I've needed to take a step up after I've packed my rope ascender, so I set the Kong on my rappel rope and girth hitch a continuous loop through the opening, which gives me a tempory moveable foot loop. You could easily do this with a friction hitch instead; all you really need are two continuous loops.
 
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