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scouting help, second year hunter

C

caddis75

Active Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2020
Messages
112
Good evening all,

This is my second season hunting, and I could use a little help identifying what is important and what isn't in what I scouted today in SE PA on public land. I am still searching for my first deer. Yes, I know I am scouting in season. Most times when I scout I don't see anything of note, it seems it's taking me a long time to figure all this out. Do any of the below pos

First up is a saddle, with a pond in the middle of it. No oak trees to speak of, but I located two patches of bare dirt that seemed scraped over. One had a branch right above it and the other had what looked like a little tree stripped and bit off. How can you tell if it's a deer scrape or just a patch of dirt? Last year I called in a deer here, during the rut, but it was beyond what I was comfortable to shoot at. I did a morning sit here yesterday and saw nothing. I found both "scrapes" yesterday. Coming back today, one looked a bit more scuffed up since then, the other looks the same. Each is maybe two feet in diameter.

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Second up is an area of oak trees. I did not find any deer poop, the bedding symbol is where I found some hay bent down encircled by small pine trees, no poop there either. One tree had more tops than full acorns. There is a tree near here that I think I can SRT out of. About 100 yards east of here I spooked two deer in this really tight grouping of small trees as I was walking out at dusk. I only saw tails so no idea if they were bucks. How can you tell if deer are eating a particular acorn?

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This is the only oak tree where I saw acorns, tops of acorns without the acorn, and poop. Just south of this is a steep slope of game trails and sticker bushes. I spooked two bucks out of there last year. This is where I got stuck in a tree last year, lol. The trees are gnarly here, with no straight lines. I found one tree I could SRT out of about 30 yards away, but it's right up against the slope of beds and game trails. I found far less deer poop here this year compared to last year. If I get lucky and shoot one and it gets into that sticker slope, my goodness it'll be a mess to drag it out. It's gotta be 200 yards of sticker bushes down that hill. If I take a gamble and hunt this how do you hunt a bed this close to a food source?
bedding.png

Lastly,

Last weekend I did some scouting in Central PA. I decided to take a long walk along a tiny creek (4-6 feet wide) I found an area of lots of deer poop and three areas of what seem to be scrapes. These are just below a funnel. This forest has fenced-in plots for tree studies so it's essentially a funnel from the top down to the valley bottom. I tested out a 2TC system here as all of the trees here have no branches until 60-80 feet up. The wind switches often in this valley, so I have no idea how to hunt this.

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I definitely can’t answer all your questions but as far as scouting in season goes, don’t feel foolish. In season scouting is the the most important for a public land hunter. You can scout other times of year too but up to the minute knowledge is essential for finding public land deer. So keep doing what you’re doing. Did you take any pics of those scrapes? We could help confirm that way. But they sound like scrapes. Random patches of dirt don’t normally form perfectly under a licking branch. Not sure if you are trying to kill a buck only or just whatever is legal and in shooting range. If your just trying to shoot any deer I’d focus more on the area with food close by and the freshest poop. Maybe hold off on hunting those scrapes for another week or so until the bucks begin frequenting them more as the the pre rut approaches. Do you have any trail cams you can put on those scrapes? Could give you the confidence you need to hunt them in a few weeks.
 
Thanks. No pics of the scrapes. Will do. Buck tag only. I am off today and tomorrow, so I may hunt or scout. There also seem to be a few farms around the SGL that are hunter access cooperatives. I may go knock on their doors as well.
 
if i were you i'd hunt where i found the most abundant and freshest poop. there was a thread on here the other day where a lot of the more seasoned hunters were saying this, andi was sitting in the middle of dropping acorns (with not much poop around) seeing nothing. I can volunteer a possible scrape photo- wondering if this is an older scrape or just a bare spot myself. (edited to add- i'm a second season, just shot my first doe, still don't know what i'm doing hunter myself as well)
 

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I’m in a tree right now so I can’t type a book. Forget everything you’ve probably learned about deer hunting by now. Go out, find areas that are thick and have cover, and look for sign. Poop, tracks, trails, rubs, scrapes and even sometimes hair. When you find an area like this, pick a tree on the edge of the area overlooking an intersection of trails and then go back and hunt it your next hunt. You may see something, you may not. If you hunt this spot a few times and see deer moving somewhere else, go move there. I try not to move after one sighting unless it’s clear I should be there. You can definitely hunt a good spot a handful of times with a chance at a deer. But don’t hunt that spot every day. I have a few spots I’ll hunt 3 or 4 times per season. When you have enough of these spots you can rotate through and then you won’t even have enough time to hunt them all and will probably even forget a few . Good luck!
 
So, I pre-set paracord ropes in three places where I saw signs this past Saturday, I can only hunt this SGL on weekends. (city folk here) When can I hunt it again? I am thinking one week may be too soon?
 
Don’t climb a tree until you see deer, in daylight, in a location you can confirm they are in regularly (poop, tracks, beds, rubs, scrapes, etc - and lots of them, fresh, no mistaking their age).

walk around. A lot. Find game trails and follow them all over the properties you’re planning to hunt.

climbing trees without having any concept of where deer are, where they’re going, when they’ll be there, and why, is an unnecessary risk to your life, and a complete waste of time.

Go hunting. As in, learn to hunt. Sitting in a tree is not hunting. It’s killing. If there aren’t deer under the tree, you ain’t killing.

if using a phone map app is your jam, go walk every inch of the properties you hunt, and use the track feature to mark the track you take. And drop pins on every single sign of deer you find. Most importantly, drop pins where you jump deer in daylight. Looking at maps on the computer or phone when you don’t know how to hunt is useless. You’re looking at things you don’t understand. Go get boots on the ground - a lot of them. See it with your eyes. Then when you look at a map on the computer things will make more sense. Also map scouting is overrated. Especially for new hunters. Stop wasting your time. Boots. On. Ground.

leave your climbing method at home. Bring enough food and water to last you. Full day of walking. Then go spend a full day walking.

you can do this type of scouting/learning in big chunks in the beginning of your hunting career, and really shorten the learning curve. Or you can waste hours days and weeks and seasons walking an hour every time you go to the woods, and sitting in a tree for five hours seeing nothing over and over.

choice is up to you.

also what is SGL?
 
@kyler1945 that's good advice, and I can attest that your method is really helpful! I use HuntStand and drop a note in each pin about how fresh the sign I found looked. Then going back later and looking at it, you can sometimes create a connect-the-dots pattern that gives you a better starting point the next time. I had posted a similar thread about some challenges that I was having, so I like the suggestion of leaving the climbing method at home, which would force you to cover ground until you find a good place to set up. Thanks!
 
kyler1945 said:
Don’t climb a tree until you see deer, in daylight, in a location you can confirm they are in regularly (poop, tracks, beds, rubs, scrapes, etc - and lots of them, fresh, no mistaking their age).

walk around. A lot. Find game trails and follow them all over the properties you’re planning to hunt.

climbing trees without having any concept of where deer are, where they’re going, when they’ll be there, and why, is an unnecessary risk to your life, and a complete waste of time.

Go hunting. As in, learn to hunt. Sitting in a tree is not hunting. It’s killing. If there aren’t deer under the tree, you ain’t killing.

if using a phone map app is your jam, go walk every inch of the properties you hunt, and use the track feature to mark the track you take. And drop pins on every single sign of deer you find. Most importantly, drop pins where you jump deer in daylight. Looking at maps on the computer or phone when you don’t know how to hunt is useless. You’re looking at things you don’t understand. Go get boots on the ground - a lot of them. See it with your eyes. Then when you look at a map on the computer things will make more sense. Also map scouting is overrated. Especially for new hunters. Stop wasting your time. Boots. On. Ground.

leave your climbing method at home. Bring enough food and water to last you. Full day of walking. Then go spend a full day walking.

you can do this type of scouting/learning in big chunks in the beginning of your hunting career, and really shorten the learning curve. Or you can waste hours days and weeks and seasons walking an hour every time you go to the woods, and sitting in a tree for five hours seeing nothing over and over.

choice is up to you.

also what is SGL?
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Thanks. Yeah, the first season I sat a lot and saw nothing, minus one deer. I am basically scouting, wandering around, setting paracord presets basically as practice. I did about 7 miles of wandering this Saturday following game trails. I carried my kit to build some endurance but didn't hunt. An SGL is state game land, common in Pennsylvania. They are small parcels where hunting is allowed.
 
kyler1945 said:
Don’t climb a tree until you see deer, in daylight, in a location you can confirm they are in regularly (poop, tracks, beds, rubs, scrapes, etc - and lots of them, fresh, no mistaking their age).

walk around. A lot. Find game trails and follow them all over the properties you’re planning to hunt.

climbing trees without having any concept of where deer are, where they’re going, when they’ll be there, and why, is an unnecessary risk to your life, and a complete waste of time.

Go hunting. As in, learn to hunt. Sitting in a tree is not hunting. It’s killing. If there aren’t deer under the tree, you ain’t killing.

if using a phone map app is your jam, go walk every inch of the properties you hunt, and use the track feature to mark the track you take. And drop pins on every single sign of deer you find. Most importantly, drop pins where you jump deer in daylight. Looking at maps on the computer or phone when you don’t know how to hunt is useless. You’re looking at things you don’t understand. Go get boots on the ground - a lot of them. See it with your eyes. Then when you look at a map on the computer things will make more sense. Also map scouting is overrated. Especially for new hunters. Stop wasting your time. Boots. On. Ground.

leave your climbing method at home. Bring enough food and water to last you. Full day of walking. Then go spend a full day walking.

you can do this type of scouting/learning in big chunks in the beginning of your hunting career, and really shorten the learning curve. Or you can waste hours days and weeks and seasons walking an hour every time you go to the woods, and sitting in a tree for five hours seeing nothing over and over.

choice is up to you.

also what is SGL?
Click to expand...

So I’ve been thinking about this a lot since i read it a few hours ago, and I have a few questions.

Is it of no concern to be walking around in the middle of the day bumping deer left and right?
I did this this past Saturday on a new property, bumped 3 bucks and a doe, learned a lot. I guess where I’m struggling with this concept is what to do with what I’ve learned. I’m questioning if I should set up where I bumped some of these deer or if they’ll move somewhere else.

Also where I’m not putting the dots together is how to connect walking around all day with getting into a tree. I’ve read so many people say that they walk and walk all day and then get into a tree and kill deer, aren’t you pushing deer around all day doing this? How can you walk and walk where the deer are laying down sign without pushing them out of the area?
 
Chimney7 said:
So I’ve been thinking about this a lot since i read it a few hours ago, and I have a few questions.

Is it of no concern to be walking around in the middle of the day bumping deer left and right?
I did this this past Saturday on a new property, bumped 3 bucks and a doe, learned a lot. I guess where I’m struggling with this concept is what to do with what I’ve learned. I’m questioning if I should set up where I bumped some of these deer or if they’ll move somewhere else.

Also where I’m not putting the dots together is how to connect walking around all day with getting into a tree. I’ve read so many people say that they walk and walk all day and then get into a tree and kill deer, aren’t you pushing deer around all day doing this? How can you walk and walk where the deer are laying down sign without pushing them out of the area?
Click to expand...

Good questions.

if you’re talking about public land then no I don’t have any concerns about walking around bumping deer. If it’s not me, someone else will be doing it so it might as well be me learning out there. If you’re on private this could change. You can be a little more delicate because the deer have a controlled amount of pressure

Should you set up where you bumped deer? Maybe sometimes. If it’s a soft bump as in maybe the deer just heard you coming but never smelled you cuz the wind was in your favor and didn’t see you either. These deer won’t blow at you, they’ll just kind of bound off. If it was late enough in the evening and those deer ran away up wind of me, I’d definitely set up there. They were there for a reason and there’s a really good chance they will come back even if it’s just out of curiosity. If it’s a hard bump and they see and smell me and storm off blowing, i would not set up there because they likely won’t come back to inspect until well after dark.

how to connect walking around with finally climbing a tree at the end of your walk about: ideally I get into the woods with 4-5 hours before legal shooting light is up. Depending on which way the wind is blowing I will pick destinations spots to go inspect for sign all while paying attention to any sign I might pass while walking there. If all goes perfect I begin to find tracks and trails and scat and I’m marking all of this as I go. My goal is to try to be up a tree with 2 or 3 or so hours of shooting light left. But if I haven’t found super fresh looking sign as in it was made only hours ago, I will not set up. if This is the case I will usually keep scouting until 1 hour or legal light left and then I’ll park myself in a spot where I can at least observe an area in hopes to see some deer moving and gather intel for another day. Sometimes the opposite happens and I find super fresh sign at 1 pm. Now that’s wayyy to early to set up and if I’ve found something that gives me so much confidence that I’ll be seeing deer there, I will slowly back out and go scout a completely different area and return to this one a little later in the evening to set up there. This is an example where I would not want to keep walking through the area and blow deer out because I’m banking on the deer being there that evening and don’t want to upset that particular pattern.

this was long but hope it makes sense. And these are just my experiences with Learning through trial and error. I think the ultimate goal is to build woodsmanship skills and you can only do that by walking around the woods. Can’t really do it by just sitting in trees.
 
Chimney7 said:
So I’ve been thinking about this a lot since i read it a few hours ago, and I have a few questions.

Is it of no concern to be walking around in the middle of the day bumping deer left and right?
I did this this past Saturday on a new property, bumped 3 bucks and a doe, learned a lot. I guess where I’m struggling with this concept is what to do with what I’ve learned. I’m questioning if I should set up where I bumped some of these deer or if they’ll move somewhere else.

Also where I’m not putting the dots together is how to connect walking around all day with getting into a tree. I’ve read so many people say that they walk and walk all day and then get into a tree and kill deer, aren’t you pushing deer around all day doing this? How can you walk and walk where the deer are laying down sign without pushing them out of the area?
Click to expand...

Don’t sell yourself short. Our brains are pattern recognition devices. How many patterns can you start to pick up on if you’re just sitting in a tree? Not very many. You don’t need all the answers from an Internet forum. Go walk around. You’ll start to see patterns, and develop strategies based on those.

I’m giving you a very general, loose description of the concept. That’s because every property, geographical region, hunter, etc are different. What remains the same is that if you sit in a tree with no deer under you, you ain’t killing any deer.

bump deer - walk to where the deer was. Why was it there? Food or bedding or sex or travel to one of those three. When will the deer be there again? Hunt there if that time is during shooting hours. Maybe don’t hunt it that day. Maybe you do. It matters not. Stop worrying about what to do with ONE spot or sighting or sign. Go find dozens of them. Patterns emerge, time lapses, and you’ll know what to do.

my guess js You’re not having success because you’re not identifying enough high leverage situations, not because you smell bad or you don’t have the right climbing method.
 
I have kicked bucks or walked through the beds, I mean in them, on more than one occasion and had opportunities shortly after. It's not the preferred way of course. But spooking a deer off a bed once isn't the end of the world. It's usually a great insight into how to kill it. Just walk around until you find one. Sign is good and all, but seeing a deer is better. When you jump one walk over and figure it out, and then try it. And then just repeat that until you start to figure it out.
 
If you your new to hunting a foundation of hunting public land dan Infalt dvds. He covers buck bedding how play the wind and other topics. He also gives different hunting strategies for different habitats like farm country hill, marsh, swamps. He has great dvds that covers those topics. Jon Eberhart covers the rut really good to his dvds very good also. The hunting public and adrenaline whitetails use these guys as thier foundation of knowledge. Buy dvds its worth it save yourself from guessing and wasting time.
 
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If you your new to hunting the foundation hunting public land dan Infalt is a good resource. He covers buck bedding how play the wind and other topics. He also gives different hunting strategies for different habitats like farm country hill country marsh swamps. He has great dvds that covers those topics. Jon Eberhart covers the rut really good to his dvds very good also. The hunting public and adrenaline whitetails use these guys as thier foundation of knowledge. Buy dvds its worth it save yourself from guessing and wasting time.
 
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