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Screamer in a bridge?

No, I find it quite pragmatic.
Here is my own personal philosophy with this stuff.

I am going to let procedure and calculated movement deal with 95% of my risk reduction.
I am going to stack the odds in my favor with every piece of gear I choose to make up the other 5%.

So let’s say I have a fall like the one Boyne Bowhunter had described the other day. He was very luckily able to slow his fall by hugging/grabbing the tree on the way down. I think the dynamic rope would greatly aid in a fall like this.

I have basically accepted the fact that if you are one sticking and take a free fall with your tether at your ankles you are going to have a bad day no matter what you are on (so let your procedure eliminate this possibility as much as you can by implementing a linesman belt and using it properly at waist level or above). But if you have a marginal fall, that dynamic rope may be your best friend in getting you back to your car, or maybe even finishing out the hunt if everything is cool.
 
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No, I find it quite pragmatic.
Here is my own personal philosophy with this stuff.

I am going to let procedure and calculated movement deal with 95% of my risk reduction.
I am going to stack the odds in my favor with every piece of gear I choose to make up the other 5%.

So let’s say I have a fall like the one Boyne Bowhunter had described the other day. He was very luckily able to slow his fall by hugging/grabbing the tree on the way down. I think the dynamic rope would greatly aid in a fall like this.

I have basically accepted the fact that if you are one sticking and take a free fall with your tether at your ankles you are going to have a bad day no matter what you are on. But if you have a marginal fall, that dynamic rope may be your best friend in getting you back to your car, or maybe even finishing out the hunt if everything is cool.
^^^^ this though^^^^^ yes! Know your risks, do what you can to mitigate them, then rely on PPE as a back up. And most importantly know your limits and risks because we are all doing this at our own risks
 
That's why my plan is to use the dynamic rope and hitch cord with a screamer as my one-stick climb tether and then change over to my rappel rope/tether one up at height.
 
Looked up the klemheist and it looks like it will work with a loop like a prusik so any idea what length loop is needed? I found the bluewater dynamic cord in sown loops but not sure what length I need. They come in 11" 20" and 44"
 
When they say 11" is that the total length of the loop or the length of the rope itself. I assume its the loop length.
 
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Looked up the klemheist and it looks like it will work with a loop like a prusik so any idea what length loop is needed? I found the bluewater dynamic cord in sown loops but not sure what length I need. They come in 11" 20" and 44"
i would guess a 20”. If you were using a typical prusik, I’d say 11” as I use a 13” prusik on my 10 mm but if you use that 6.5mm on a 9mm rope to tie a klemheist, I would say the 20” would probably work the best
 
When they say 11" is that the total length of the loop or the length of the rope itself. I assume its the loop length.
11" will be too short.
I have 13" ratchet and it barely makes a Klemheist on Oplux.
I can get you some pictures of some hitches tied with different length cords when I get home if you want?

You mentioned the Edelrid tether earlier in this thread. I have one with a Kong Slyde and it's probably about as 'safe' of a tether as your gonna find?

Screenshot_20210722-193400_Gallery.jpg
 
Here is a question I’ve been pondering that is far from the OP, but we’ve already veered off that onto dynamic lines anyway. That Edelreid sewn tether with a stated 4000 lb. break strength looks very good. But I am curious about buying dynamic line by the foot and tying your own eye. When purchasing static line, you can somewhat evaluate what line you feel comfortable with by calculating the knot strength reduction from the starting line strength (ex: MBS times .75 [per selected knot] = final rope strength in application around the tree). But dynamic ropes are not rated by breaking strengths. I know they are rated according to the number of falls they can safely withstand and by the impact force. So if you want to buy dynamic line by the foot and tie a (say, figure 8 on a bight) knot for your eye loop, what characteristics of the rope do you use to make that determination? This is where I get lost on dynamic rope. Can someone who gets this help me understand the impact force rating?
 
Here is a question I’ve been pondering that is far from the OP, but we’ve already veered off that onto dynamic lines anyway. That Edelreid sewn tether with a stated 4000 lb. break strength looks very good. But I am curious about buying dynamic line by the foot and tying your own eye. When purchasing static line, you can somewhat evaluate what line you feel comfortable with by calculating the knot strength reduction from the starting line strength (ex: MBS times .75 [per selected knot] = final rope strength in application around the tree). But dynamic ropes are not rated by breaking strengths. I know they are rated according to the number of falls they can safely withstand and by the impact force. So if you want to buy dynamic line by the foot and tie a (say, figure 8 on a bight) knot for your eye loop, what characteristics of the rope do you use to make that determination? This is where I get lost on dynamic rope. Can someone who gets this help me understand the impact force rating?
I have two thoughts on this. The first is that climbers use the figure 8 to tie in all the time because it maintains a greater percentage of strength than many other knots. Also since a dynamic line will result in less force generated, they are graded on the number of falls they can sustain instead of just their individual breaking strengths. In most falls of less than 6’ at a 1:1 fall factor or less, a 300 lbs man would generate about 3100 lbs of force on a static line. That would be nowhere near the breaking strength of the dynamic rope and on a dynamic line that exact same fall only generates about 1700 lbs of force. However you are concerned of the loss from the tied eye… so let’s say a figure 8 loses 40% of ropes strength (most site calculate that number as closer to 30 %) but worse case scenario is the rope at the knot can hold 2400 lbs. since the eye is girth hitched to the tree, the knot itself would see much less force than what was generated. One thing to consider is where the girth hitch occurs will also be weaker. Most likely the weakest link of the system. So the weakest link will still be at least 2400 lbs breaking strength for that dynamic rope that would only generate estimated 1700 lbs if you weigh 300 lbs and fall 6’ with your bridge level with the tether where it hitches the tree. That would be a gnarly fall. The more realistic fall though would be if you were one sticking and you have 2’ of slack in your tether, then you climb until the tether’s girth hitch is down by your knees giving you the ability to fall 3.5 to 4’ on only 2’ of slacked rope. Your fall distance is now almost twice as long as the rope has slack (to absorb shock). These are high fall factors and they are the most dangerous no matter what type of rope you are on. They are capable of generating massive amounts of force, sometimes up to 30 kN (almost 7000 lbs) although the more realistic number is about 18 kN ( about 4000 lbs). Even if you used a screamer, and it absorbed 3kN of force (675 lbs) it wouldn’t matter. That’s why I said what I said involving falls using screamers. Again there are other factors such as if you are able to decelerate the fall by grabbing a tree or banging into your stick. Also when forces are measured they are measuring them using dummies that do not absorb shock like our bodies do. The type of saddle you wear makes a difference. But regardless those types of worst case scenario falls can be fatal, especially while using a work positioning harness
 
I think I follow... I guess the core of my question is how to pick the right dynamic line.

(I feel as though I get static lines. It either breaks or it doesn't depending on the force applied to the rope vs. its listed breaking strength. That's pretty easy to calculate. The far important question is can your body undergo the kNs experienced in the fall; which is frankly a small threshold far under the rope's capacity. Dynamic lines seem very ambiguous to me. If there is a good-better-best approach to picking a good dynamic line, that's what I'm trying to understand—and I was wondering if the impact force rating would be a useful metric in that determination.)

However, if I understand your reply correctly, that’s a moot point because like static lines, dynamic ropes are so strong that if you were to suffer a fall significant enough to approach its breaking strength, regardless of knot selection, sewn eye, strength reduction, whatever... your spine is toast anyway. So assuming you are climbing with procedures to mitigate as much fall risk as possible, it doesn't much matter what dynamic line you use... just pick one?

But, options. Where I'm getting hung up is if dynamic ropes have differing elongations, impact force ratings, etc., is there a way to pick one that gives you the best chance at surviving the fall?

Sorry if I seem dense. I feel like the dynamic concept makes sense to me... the intricate technical differences among dynamic ropes does not. But I can also get climbing on a super long line with a counterbalancing belayer is a veeery different scenario than one sticking.
 
I think I follow... I guess the core of my question is how to pick the right dynamic line.

(I feel as though I get static lines. It either breaks or it doesn't depending on the force applied to the rope vs. its listed breaking strength. That's pretty easy to calculate. The far important question is can your body undergo the kNs experienced in the fall; which is frankly a small threshold far under the rope's capacity. Dynamic lines seem very ambiguous to me. If there is a good-better-best approach to picking a good dynamic line, that's what I'm trying to understand—and I was wondering if the impact force rating would be a useful metric in that determination.)

However, if I understand your reply correctly, that’s a moot point because like static lines, dynamic ropes are so strong that if you were to suffer a fall significant enough to approach its breaking strength, regardless of knot selection, sewn eye, strength reduction, whatever... your spine is toast anyway. So assuming you are climbing with procedures to mitigate as much fall risk as possible, it doesn't much matter what dynamic line you use... just pick one?

But, options. Where I'm getting hung up is if dynamic ropes have differing elongations, impact force ratings, etc., is there a way to pick one that gives you the best chance at surviving the fall?

Sorry it that seems dense. I feel like the dynamic concept makes sense to me... the intricate technical differences among ropes does not. But I can also get climbing on a super long line with a counterbalancing belayer is a veeery different scenario than one sticking.
Just make sure you pick one rated as a “single rope.” The twins and doubles are smaller diameter and lighter but must be used in tandem. I got the Edilrid Eco Boa cuz I got it for a good deal. It’s rated to give 30-40% stretch and survive I think 6-7 falls. It’s 9.6 mm diameter. Any of the major rope manufacturers will make rope in this range.
 
I think I follow... I guess the core of my question is how to pick the right dynamic line.

(I feel as though I get static lines. It either breaks or it doesn't depending on the force applied to the rope vs. its listed breaking strength. That's pretty easy to calculate. The far important question is can your body undergo the kNs experienced in the fall; which is frankly a small threshold far under the rope's capacity. Dynamic lines seem very ambiguous to me. If there is a good-better-best approach to picking a good dynamic line, that's what I'm trying to understand—and I was wondering if the impact force rating would be a useful metric in that determination.)

However, if I understand your reply correctly, that’s a moot point because like static lines, dynamic ropes are so strong that if you were to suffer a fall significant enough to approach its breaking strength, regardless of knot selection, sewn eye, strength reduction, whatever... your spine is toast anyway. So assuming you are climbing with procedures to mitigate as much fall risk as possible, it doesn't much matter what dynamic line you use... just pick one?

But, options. Where I'm getting hung up is if dynamic ropes have differing elongations, impact force ratings, etc., is there a way to pick one that gives you the best chance at surviving the fall?

Sorry if I seem dense. I feel like the dynamic concept makes sense to me... the intricate technical differences among dynamic ropes does not. But I can also get climbing on a super long line with a counterbalancing belayer is a veeery different scenario than one sticking.
Get a single rope, the number of falls determines how many shocks it can take before failure and then check the rated force generated…. Since it’ll be much shorter obviously it’ll be a higher force than the original length but regardless, dynamic rope will lower impact forces.
 
11" will be too short.
I have 13" ratchet and it barely makes a Klemheist on Oplux.
I can get you some pictures of some hitches tied with different length cords when I get home if you want?

You mentioned the Edelrid tether earlier in this thread. I have one with a Kong Slyde and it's probably about as 'safe' of a tether as your gonna find?

View attachment 50210
Been on vacation. Yes please send the pictures with the cord lengths. Thanks
 
11" will be too short.
I have 13" ratchet and it barely makes a Klemheist on Oplux.
I can get you some pictures of some hitches tied with different length cords when I get home if you want?

You mentioned the Edelrid tether earlier in this thread. I have one with a Kong Slyde and it's probably about as 'safe' of a tether as your gonna find?

View attachment 50210

Thanks for sharing the pic. How well does the slyde move for adjustments on that rope? Been contemplating a set up like that.
 
Thanks for sharing the pic. How well does the slyde move for adjustments on that rope? Been contemplating a set up like that.
It takes up slack great!
I struggle a little when lengthening my tether... (my wrists ain't very flexible anymore)
 
It takes up slack great!
I struggle a little when lengthening my tether... (my wrists ain't very flexible anymore)
The Camp Swing is similar to Slyde, but releases much easier when used upside down from its intended use. It comes with rope that doesn’t work very well, and configured to only be extend arms length, with the device attached to the anchor point. Attaching it to the saddle limits the length to that of the rope.

The 8.9mm Swift is about as small as can be used, like the Slyde if the cord bypasses itself it slips. I was able to release using the Swift while hanging from it under full control, by simply push down on the tab.
580C399D-567E-4101-9971-1408B16835AD.jpeg
 
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