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Self rescue for newbies as well as experienced saddle users.

DMTJAGER

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
404
Was literally 100% ready to jump in both feet into saddle hunting then I read several treads detailing the need for being able to 100% reliably self reuse in the event of a climbing equipment failure.

This has caused me to pause and very seriously re-evaluate my hunting from all elevated platforms. My issue is I have use Cranford screw in tree steps for 90% of my climbing into and out of trees. I have NEVER had a failure or issue of any kind with my Cranford SITS and I own over 50 and have used them for 20+ years.
I always use a lineman's belt and are an absolute stone cold expert in installing tree steps so they are properly supported and at a correct angle periductular to the tree so as no aspect of the step is exposed to unacceptable and dangerous forces and I do this without exception. In my own testing none 3 or 4x once properly installed I literally couldn't get a Cranford step to bend if installed correctly even by jumping up and down on it and I weigh between 230 and 270lbs. depending on what year I did the test. I have used Cranford screw in steps for literally hundreds of hunts without a single failure or problem of any kind. I have left my CSITS in trees for as long as 6 possibly 7 months again these same steps still work perfectly today.

I have absolute faith in my Cranford steps. Now my LWCS I have only used a few times bit liked them more strictly from a convivence and effort aspect. It requires MUCH less effort to attach one strap then three screw in steps.

So I have a few questions and a request.

First the request.
Could the saddle experts of this great sight please pool their knowledge and develop either a picture show or video of various simple to use methods and or systems of self rescue in the event of a climbing stick or step failure and post it here. Including every piece of equipment and where to buy it. I think that would be awesome.
I have been stand hunting for 35+ years and only less than half even used a FBH and only went to a safety rope a few years ago. I never even gave my climbing system failing a seconds worth of thought until now. So not surprisingly I have no idea how to equip myself for self rescue from 25' up in a tree I suddenly can not get down from especially after finding myself in a worse case scenario catastrophic climbing system/equipment failure.

Now for my question. Are as high a quality as money can buy like Cranford screw in steps made from hardened steel significantly more robust and less prone to failure than strap on sticks as to make them the superior choice? I understand they are a no-go on much of public land but I hunt more on private land and steps are usually OK.

Is it even possible to calculate how much added risk is possible by using a aider system or platforms to your sticks?

Lastly other than DRT and SRT what is the safest most reliable low risk climbing method if not high quality screw in steps?

I am going to have to do some thinking on this before I spend over $400 on a Saddle and additional climbing equipment.

I hope the most experienced members of this site can come up with a way to help saddle hunters especially total novices such as I with developing a self rescue system as that's something a person with ZERO knowledge certainly could use all the experienced help with they can get,
And I hope I am not asking to much of people or being unrealistic in my requests.
 
If you are already using screw in steps i would assume the methods you've used throughout the past 20 years will serve you fine, my get down is my self rescue, which is 30' of rappel rope, a black diamond figure 8, and a prussic. I carried this while I was using bolts even though I climbed up and down using them. If I had to I could single stick my way back down the tree but its a total PITA, hence the reppel gear. I would be sure to bring a tether and linemans everytime, that way if something looks or feels off you can secure yourself to the tree a 2nd way and figure it out. Most of the self rescue stuff seems to be about sticks kicking out, because if your tether or linemans breaks chances are self rescue starts at ground level.

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Easily do-able with an appropriate rope and no other hardware assuming you are wearing a saddle or harness and there is a crotch in the tree capable of supporting your weight. Doubled rope system/ moving rope system with a Blake’s or taughtline hitch.

A lot of stiffer kernmantle type ropes won’t work well, just too stiff to get the wraps and turns on the hitch to grip right. A hitch cord will allow kernmantle ropes to be used.
Haven’t personally handled Samson Predator, but looks to be similar construction as Velocity and Vortex so it should take a Blake’s or TLH well.

It’s not a bad way to go for accessing the tree too, either footlock the tail or body thrusting or a foot asc
 
If I'm reading and understanding your concerns properly, it sounds like you want a how-to on how to get down the tree if you dropped your climbing system or had a piece fail on you and that left you hanging off of the tree. If you are safety conscious you would always be attached to the tree via the linemans belt or tether. So if you were to fall it shouldn't be far at all but you could potentially be hanging there out of reach of your previous step.

Personally after saddle hunting the last few seasons im not overly concerned about this and would just wing it in the situation to get to my last step.

If you're really concerned you could carry an extra aider or step/stick up with you in case this situation occurred. Then you could use the "one stick method" to get down to your last secure step or all the way to the ground if you wanted. Search the forum for "one stick method" or better yet just go to YouTube and watch some videos. DIY sportsman has a good video on how to do it with a stick, as well as with an aider.



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I think youre thinking waaaaay to much about this? its just hunting and its just climbing the tree like hunters have been doing for the past 30-40 years. pick a way to get up the tree practice very slowly and make sure youre tied in.
 
Nothing but a rope and saddle. Blake’s is gonna perform better, but depending why you’re rescuing yourself, the taughtline is worth knowing since it can be tied with one hand after a little practice.
Dead simple, no other gear needed, and it’ll be permitted at an ITCC competition. Don’t count on winning the comp lol but it would be allowed. It’s safe and reliable.
Now considered old school among arborists, but totally worth knowing in case I drop part of the RopeRunner or whatever fancy gadget I’ve come to rely on.
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I bought and carry a Treestand Wingman. It can lower me to the ground . All I have to do is put it around the tree clip it to my bridge and lower myself slowly to the ground. Check out the website at Treestand Wingman. I take my time and also check my equipment regularly and try to be as safe as possible but if something happens my Treestand Wingman is in a pouch on my saddle. Be safe and remember steady and slow is the way to go .
 
I think youre thinking waaaaay to much about this? its just hunting and its just climbing the tree like hunters have been doing for the past 30-40 years. pick a way to get up the tree practice very slowly and make sure youre tied in.
You very well could be right. The reason above all others I use screw in tree steps vs other climbing systems is they are made of hardened steel vastly more durable than hardened aluminum and essentially one single stand alone part which is by there very design far less subject to failure as a climbing stick who's construction consists of 6-10× more parts all subject to failure and are by venrture of a much larger number of parts has to have a much larger chance of a part failure I use screw in tree steps is because I unlike my Aluminum climbing sticks I can and do test each one prior to use using quite harsh forces and lastly steel doesn't fatigue from repeated use like Aluminum does
But screw in steps are more difficult to install but I'll continue to use them and use my sticks only when absolutely necessary
I am thinking a Cranford hardened steel steps chances of breaking after proper installation are extremely extremely small much less than a climbing sticks chances of failing
 
I use the one stick method with an “oh crap” 550 cord attached to it and my saddle. I also climb with my rappelling rope, an extra carabiner, and prusic. I actually sticked out the other day rushing to get in my tree. My tether caught me and I just put the stick back on like nothing ever happened.
 
You should read/watch videos about different climbing methods. Many, like 1 sticking, are very similar to the concept of a climbing tree stand. With 1 sticking, you use your tether around the tree like the top of the climber and the stick like the bottom of the climber (in essence). Once you grasp that, then you can self-rescue with anything that serves the purpose of the stick (or bottom of the climber). You just have to take the pressure off the tether (using a stick, a step, a sling around the tree, you lineman's lanyard wrapped around the tree with a foot hold attached to it, etc) so you can slide the tether down a bit. Then slide your stick/step/etc down and use it again to take weight off the tether. Rinse and repeat until you get to the ground or a stick on the tree etc.

This is one reason why I don't climb huge diameter trees. If something happens, I want to be able to reach around the tree a bit to steady myself while I'm doing all this.

There isn't a step by step easy guide to self-rescuing while saddle hunting. You just have to read and think about it and maybe try some things out.

I carry 3 things to self-rescue (and all can do it on their own with a tether): strap on steps, an 8 foot amsteel daisy chain, and a lineman's lanyard and 3 foot sling that I can use together.

I think the main thing to do first when hanging from your tether and needing to self-rescue is: settle down, look around at the scenario, think about the tools and techniques you have at your disposal, and then think. I would probably sit there in my saddle for at least 2 to 5 minutes and think and let my heart rate go down. Saddles and rock climbing harnesses do not cause suspension trauma (edit: I might be wrong here and I’m thinking in comparison to 5 point harnesses that we all know act like tourniquets real fast) and you can sit there until help arrives (you should contact help before attempting your self-rescue, if you can). Then start making slow movements so you don't make things worse or drop the gear you need.
 
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You should read/watch videos about different climbing methods. Many, like 1 sticking, are very similar to the concept of a climbing tree stand. With 1 sticking, you use your tether around the tree like the top of the climber and the stick like the bottom of the climber (in essence). Once you grasp that, then you can self-rescue with anything that serves the purpose of the stick (or bottom of the climber). You just have to take the pressure off the tether (using a stick, a step, a sling around the tree, you lineman's lanyard wrapped around the tree with a foot hold attached to it, etc) so you can slide the tether down a bit. Then slide your stick/step/etc down and use it again to take weight off the tether. Rinse and repeat until you get to the ground or a stick on the tree etc.

This is one reason why I don't climb huge diameter trees. If something happens, I want to be able to reach around the tree a bit to steady myself while I'm doing all this.

There isn't a step by step easy guide to self-rescuing while saddle hunting. You just have to read and think about it and maybe try some things out.

I carry 3 things to self-rescue (and all can do it on their own with a tether): strap on steps, an 8 foot amsteel daisy chain, and a lineman's lanyard and 3 foot sling that I can use together.

I think the main thing to do first when hanging from your tether and needing to self-rescue is: settle down, look around at the scenario, think about the tools and techniques you have at your disposal, and then think. I would probably sit there in my saddle for at least 2 to 5 minutes and think and let my heart rate go down. Saddles and rock climbing harnesses do not cause suspension trauma and you can sit there until help arrives (you should contact help before attempting your self-rescue, if you can). Then start making slow movements so you don't make things worse or drop the gear you need.

Can you explain why saddles and RCH do not cause suspension trauma?
I was under the impression that any time your legs dangle with no weight on them, then ST will occur.
I worked in a steel mill for a few years and they made us watch safety videos and suspension trauma was often a topic.
 
Can you explain why saddles and RCH do not cause suspension trauma?
I was under the impression that any time your legs dangle with no weight on them, then ST will occur.
I worked in a steel mill for a few years and they made us watch safety videos and suspension trauma was often a topic.

Hey Tom, I probably stuck my foot in it then.

I am comparing it to 5 point harnesses that quickly choke your femoral artery. In comparison, RCHs and saddles cup your butt and don’t put nearly as much force on that groin/inner thigh area. I was going off that they are used to sit and rappel also, but that is a shorter time than maybe 8 hours free dangling.

I’ll edit my post. Thanks.
 
Hey Tom, I probably stuck my foot in it then.

I am comparing it to 5 point harnesses that quickly choke your femoral artery. In comparison, RCHs and saddles cup your butt and don’t put nearly as much force on that groin/inner thigh area. I was going off that they are used to sit and rappel also, but that is a shorter time than maybe 8 hours free dangling.

I’ll edit my post. Thanks.
I was not calling you out so I apologize if it sounded that way. I really did want to know if there was some aspect of saddles and RCH that prevented suspension trauma (ST). I've seen a few safety videos on fall restrain devices and ST was always presented as the victim hanging from a restraint device and the leg muscles being under zero tension. When we stand or support our weight, our leg muscles are in a certain amount of flex which assists in pumping the blood back out of our legs. But when we are suspended with no weight on our legs, massive amounts of our blood will "pool" in our legs and eventually lead to ST which can be fatal. I was not under the impression that ST is caused by the femoral artery being chocked. I should also mention that rescue of a victim that is experiencing ST can also lead to severe complications if not handled correctly.

I will admit that I'm not well versed in ST (although I probably know slightly more than the average hunter that has never heard of ST), so take my statements as "ball park" stuff, as I'm trying to recall from industrial safety videos that I watched almost 10 years ago.
The bottom line is that suspension trauma is a very real thing and every hunter that climbs trees needs to be aware of it, and how to address self rescue should they find themselves dangling from a harness, saddle, or the device. ST can happen fairly quickly so don't think that your buddy will come help you in an hour or so...you will most likely be dead by then.

And "do as I say and not as I do" but a safety device to prevent ST is to carry a strap that you can clip to your tether which will allow you step onto a loop in the strap. Doing that will allow you to put weight onto your legs and prevent ST. I don't carry a strap but I do use a 12 foot tether which would allow me to create a "standing loop" from the tag end. It's one more reason why I think it's crazy to use ultra short tethers that some guys use. 12 foot tethers are not a hassle.
Everybody needs to do their own research on ST and how to prevent it or address it.
 
I was not calling you out so I apologize if it sounded that way. I really did want to know if there was some aspect of saddles and RCH that prevented suspension trauma (ST). I've seen a few safety videos on fall restrain devices and ST was always presented as the victim hanging from a restraint device and the leg muscles being under zero tension. When we stand or support our weight, our leg muscles are in a certain amount of flex which assists in pumping the blood back out of our legs. But when we are suspended with no weight on our legs, massive amounts of our blood will "pool" in our legs and eventually lead to ST which can be fatal. I was not under the impression that ST is caused by the femoral artery being chocked. I should also mention that rescue of a victim that is experiencing ST can also lead to severe complications if not handled correctly.

I will admit that I'm not well versed in ST (although I probably know slightly more than the average hunter that has never heard of ST), so take my statements as "ball park" stuff, as I'm trying to recall from industrial safety videos that I watched almost 10 years ago.
The bottom line is that suspension trauma is a very real thing and every hunter that climbs trees needs to be aware of it, and how to address self rescue should they find themselves dangling from a harness, saddle, or the device. ST can happen fairly quickly so don't think that your buddy will come help you in an hour or so...you will most likely be dead by then.

And "do as I say and not as I do" but a safety device to prevent ST is to carry a strap that you can clip to your tether which will allow you step onto a loop in the strap. Doing that will allow you to put weight onto your legs and prevent ST. I don't carry a strap but I do use a 12 foot tether which would allow me to create a "standing loop" from the tag end. It's one more reason why I think it's crazy to use ultra short tethers that some guys use. 12 foot tethers are not a hassle.
Everybody needs to do their own research on ST and how to prevent it or address it.
The femoral artery part might cause a more rapid loss of consciousness, and 5-pt harnesses force you into a vertical orientation with awkward self rescue. Saddle and rch give a better ability to move around, adjust your orientation, and self rescue.
 
I was not calling you out so I apologize if it sounded that way. I really did want to know if there was some aspect of saddles and RCH that prevented suspension trauma (ST). I've seen a few safety videos on fall restrain devices and ST was always presented as the victim hanging from a restraint device and the leg muscles being under zero tension. When we stand or support our weight, our leg muscles are in a certain amount of flex which assists in pumping the blood back out of our legs. But when we are suspended with no weight on our legs, massive amounts of our blood will "pool" in our legs and eventually lead to ST which can be fatal. I was not under the impression that ST is caused by the femoral artery being chocked. I should also mention that rescue of a victim that is experiencing ST can also lead to severe complications if not handled correctly.

I will admit that I'm not well versed in ST (although I probably know slightly more than the average hunter that has never heard of ST), so take my statements as "ball park" stuff, as I'm trying to recall from industrial safety videos that I watched almost 10 years ago.
The bottom line is that suspension trauma is a very real thing and every hunter that climbs trees needs to be aware of it, and how to address self rescue should they find themselves dangling from a harness, saddle, or the device. ST can happen fairly quickly so don't think that your buddy will come help you in an hour or so...you will most likely be dead by then.

And "do as I say and not as I do" but a safety device to prevent ST is to carry a strap that you can clip to your tether which will allow you step onto a loop in the strap. Doing that will allow you to put weight onto your legs and prevent ST. I don't carry a strap but I do use a 12 foot tether which would allow me to create a "standing loop" from the tag end. It's one more reason why I think it's crazy to use ultra short tethers that some guys use. 12 foot tethers are not a hassle.
Everybody needs to do their own research on ST and how to prevent it or address it.
My first thought is the JX3 users say they don't need a platform and their legs can dangle. Maybe having a platform is good anyway. I stand up on mine every 15 minutes or so just to relieve butt pressure or go into the relaxation position.

Here is an article I just found.
 
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Anybody else using the Treestand Wingman?
If so where do you hook up to you’d saddle so you don’t come down upside down?
 
Anybody else using the Treestand Wingman?
If so where do you hook up to you’d saddle so you don’t come down upside down?
As a starting point your bridge is made for hangin. Or a second shortbridge if you want to back it up.
 
I was not calling you out so I apologize if it sounded that way. I really did want to know if there was some aspect of saddles and RCH that prevented suspension trauma (ST). I've seen a few safety videos on fall restrain devices and ST was always presented as the victim hanging from a restraint device and the leg muscles being under zero tension. When we stand or support our weight, our leg muscles are in a certain amount of flex which assists in pumping the blood back out of our legs. But when we are suspended with no weight on our legs, massive amounts of our blood will "pool" in our legs and eventually lead to ST which can be fatal. I was not under the impression that ST is caused by the femoral artery being chocked. I should also mention that rescue of a victim that is experiencing ST can also lead to severe complications if not handled correctly.

I will admit that I'm not well versed in ST (although I probably know slightly more than the average hunter that has never heard of ST), so take my statements as "ball park" stuff, as I'm trying to recall from industrial safety videos that I watched almost 10 years ago.
The bottom line is that suspension trauma is a very real thing and every hunter that climbs trees needs to be aware of it, and how to address self rescue should they find themselves dangling from a harness, saddle, or the device. ST can happen fairly quickly so don't think that your buddy will come help you in an hour or so...you will most likely be dead by then.

And "do as I say and not as I do" but a safety device to prevent ST is to carry a strap that you can clip to your tether which will allow you step onto a loop in the strap. Doing that will allow you to put weight onto your legs and prevent ST. I don't carry a strap but I do use a 12 foot tether which would allow me to create a "standing loop" from the tag end. It's one more reason why I think it's crazy to use ultra short tethers that some guys use. 12 foot tethers are not a hassle.
Everybody needs to do their own research on ST and how to prevent it or address it.

Hey Tom, not at all! I just realized I was parroting what I'd read about this without checking into it, and it turns out I was wrong. I take that seriously and I'm glad you opened my eyes, so thanks for helping there.

When I switched to a rock climbing harness years ago (before saddle hunting), a selling point for it on various forums was that the RCHs (and saddles) don't squeeze the artery and allow self-rescue. I thought that was all suspension trauma was. It seems that's just one type of suspension trauma.
 
My favorite climbing method is the LWHC seat. It's very simple and easy for me. You should know I'm 67 years old. I also repel down, if my seat should ever break I still can repel down the tree.
 
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