Sewing Pattern Details on Manufactured Saddles

[Ontariofarmer]

Good to hear! Tethrd is as well. Are there any others? Just because it has pretty stitching doesn’t mean it will pass a drop test....that is the more important thing.


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I feel confident all the saddles I have used are safe, drop test or not.
If we did drop tests comparisons of all the saddles out there, I am positive the ropeman one that I use and that tethrd promotes is the weakest link in a system. That is why New Tribes does not use them I expect.
But I bet the stitching will affect longevity. I am sure the recon would do as well in a drop test as a phantom and is stitched perfectly. The same could be said for a JX3 or almost anything NewTribes has made.
Despite the visibly poor stitching in the H2 and Phantom I have zero concerns about them either. I think they are both safe enough for me.

Maybe less marketing and better quality control should be a new Tethrd goal.
Comfort and weight are still number one for me anyway. And I like using the weakest link in my saddle system the ropeman.
If the phantom is the most comfortable light weight saddle out there I will use it even if the stitching ain’t pretty. But when it is a pricey saddle you expect good quality stitching.


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[Homebrew454]

Some of the photos show minimal or even no stitchng straight across the strap as the TL and Aero saddles have. Is there really a correct stitch pattern or is enough total stitches strong enough?

Some of the saddles have hidden support stitch patterns due to placement of webbing.

There is a ton of info in the diy section on proper stitch patterns. I always like to refer people to this link below as it has a lot of valuable information with associated testing.

The mantis I owned (only saddle I bought) had some stitching that had loose tension. I'm sure it was life supportive and fine but it looked rushed. I just make my own saddles now. I trust my stitching and tested it in some ways myself.

How to Sew Webbing Loops

Learn what the strongest stitch patterns are for sewing webbing loops and how to sew webbing for load bearing applications using a handy formula.

www.sailrite.com

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[iamcorey]

In terms of testing, i would bet all are tested to one degree or another. I'm not so concerned about a drop test considering the insignificant amount of slack in the system at any one time. As pointed out ad nauseam your fall will be into the tree and not directly down.

 

[bj139]

Some of the saddles have hidden support stitch patterns due to placement of webbing.

There is a ton of info in the diy section on proper stitch patterns. I always like to refer people to this link below as it has a lot of valuable information with associated testing.

The mantis I owned (only saddle I bought) had some stitching that had loose tension. I'm sure it was life supportive and fine but it looked rushed. I just make my own saddles now. I trust my stitching and tested it in some ways myself.

How to Sew Webbing Loops

Learn what the strongest stitch patterns are for sewing webbing loops and how to sew webbing for load bearing applications using a handy formula.

www.sailrite.com

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Copied directly from the Sailrite webbing tests. My question is answered. I should have read it more closely in the first place.
They also speculate that the cross stitching is necessary to support the W pattern or the box-x for maximum strength..

"Break Test Observations & Conclusions

As shown in the chart, there was no clear “winning” stitch pattern. The good news is that all of our stitching passed within reason, meaning that it’s not the stitch pattern that matters, it’s the amount of stitching. As long as you sew the minimum inches required according to the stitch formula, your sewn loop will be strong enough for load bearing applications. Some stitching did break lower than its expected stitching MBS, such as samples 310 and 311, so we suggest calculating your required stitching MBS, and then adding a few extra inches of stitching for an added safety factor. Sewing 10 bar tacks proved to be unnecessary. The expected stitching MBS was always higher than the webbing’s published MBS — especially on the 2-inch webbing — proving that 10 bar tacks was an excessive amount. We feel confident that eight bar tacks would be sufficiently strong enough.

What’s interesting is that samples 310 and 311 both broke at exactly 4,300 lbs., even though 311 only had six rows of W stitching whereas sample 310 had seven rows of stitching. From this fact, we theorize that if you sew the diagonal, W or box X stitch patterns, you need to add independent reinforcement stitches above and below the stitch pattern. The results indicate that it is these reinforcements that hold the stitching to a reasonable breaking strength and without these, the diagonal, box X and W patterns would have failed at a much lower breaking point."

 

[enkriss]

I am all for testing. I see companies saying “tested at a 3rd party facility”. What does that even mean? Who is this 3rd party facility? What are their credentials? What makes their testing any more trust worthy than Joe Schmo trying to sell his DIY saddle tested in a multitude of hold my beer type scenarios?

 

[boyne bowhunter]

I am all for testing. I see companies saying “tested at a 3rd party facility”. What does that even mean? Who is this 3rd party facility? What are their credentials? What makes their testing any more trust worthy than Joe Schmo trying to sell his DIY saddle tested in a multitude of hold my beer type scenarios?

Theoretically a third party tester is generally an independent test lab (hopefully with accredited test certifications in the subject matter) with no ties to the manufacturer (other than getting paid) who performs tests to a standardized set of criteria. This criteria is a little fuzzy right now as standards don't currently exist specifically for saddles but the testing can be performed in based on the already established requirements for tree stands, climbing gear and safety harnesses (aka TMA).

I work in the commerical aerospace industry and we have to have our products third party tested to standards established and accepted by the FAA, typically DO-160 (the aerospace industry equivalent of TMA).

I wouldn't be surprised to see a standardized set of test criteria developed for hunting saddles in the near future with the growing popularity of the saddles. The current TMA standards were the result of accidents that happened to hunters from shoddy workmanship and/or design deficiencies in the early days of commercial tree stands.

 

[flinginairos]

Theoretically a third party tester is generally an independent test lab (hopefully with accredited test certifications in the subject matter) with no ties to the manufacturer (other than getting paid) who performs tests to a standardized set of criteria. This criteria is a little fuzzy right now as standards don't currently exist specifically for saddles but the testing can be performed in based on the already established requirements for tree stands, climbing gear and safety harnesses (aka TMA).

I work in the commerical aerospace industry and we have to have our products third party tested to standards established and accepted by the FAA, typically DO-160 (the aerospace industry equivalent of TMA).

I wouldn't be surprised to see a standardized set of test criteria developed for hunting saddles in the near future with the growing popularity of the saddles. The current TMA standards were the result of accidents that happened to hunters from shoddy workmanship and/or design deficiencies in the early days of commercial tree stands.

Those standards are currently in the works but it’s a lengthy process. I bet it will be two years before we see a standard for saddle equipment.


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[boyne bowhunter]

Those standards are currently in the works but it’s a lengthy process. I bet it will be two years before we see a standard for saddle equipment.


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Definitely nothing moves quickly. I guess "near future" is a relative term and probably a poor choice of words. To be honest I'm still on the fence about a one size fits all set of standards such as TMA but having grown up during the age of tree stand development I can certainly understand why some minimum set of safety testing standards could be beneficial.

 

[bj139]

I started this thread just to see the details on sewing that are used by commercial saddle manufacturers so I could sew my own DIY saddles in a similar manner for my own safety. Thanks for the examples all who posted. If anyone has any photos from other saddle makers I would like to see them.

 

[BTaylor]

Definitely nothing moves quickly. I guess "near future" is a relative term and probably a poor choice of words. To be honest I'm still on the fence about a one size fits all set of standards such as TMA but having grown up during the age of tree stand development I can certainly understand why some minimum set of safety testing standards could be beneficial.

I started a minute or two ago too and agree with understanding the need for standards. Not sure if it makes more sense for TMA to create a set of standards or just follow the standards already in place for climbing gear.

 

[Homebrew454]

I started this thread just to see the details on sewing that are used by commercial saddle manufacturers so I could sew my own DIY saddles in a similar manner for my own safety. Thanks for the examples all who posted. If anyone has any photos from other saddle makers I would like to see them.

I would recommend looking at Biggta5 stitching and doing something similar. That stitching could be stronger than the webbing's rating itself.

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[iamcorey]

Does TMA standards being established and met mean that those saddles will get shelf space at big box stores?

 

[mtsrunner]

Does TMA standards being established and met mean that those saddles will get shelf space at big box stores?

TrophyLine used to be in those stores. I can’t remember if they had TMA stamp.
My personal opinion is that TMA is a joke. Basically a good ole’ boys network that doesn’t understand or care to understand saddle hunting and our needs. Look at it this way-TMA wouldn’t approve any rock climbing harness. Think about that.

 

[bj139]

I would recommend looking at Biggta5 stitching and doing something similar. That stitching could be stronger than the webbing's rating itself.

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Where can I find the Biggta5 thread on how to sew saddles?
Why would emulating commercial saddle manufacturers not be good? They seem to have an interest in making saddles as safe as possible.

I found this thread with pictures. Are these really good stitches?

Modified Sit Drag clone

New to saddle hunting (started at the beginning of the year) and started with a Sit drag which I love, then moved to a XL Mantis. When I bought the Mantis I told myself if I didn’t fall in love with right away I would sell it. Needless to say after a dozen sits I sold it. Now I loving my Sit...

saddlehunter.com

 

[gcr0003]

Where can I find the Biggta5 thread on how to sew saddles?
Why would emulating commercial saddle manufacturers not be good? They seem to have an interest in making saddles as safe as possible.

I found this thread with pictures. Are these really good stitches?

Modified Sit Drag clone

New to saddle hunting (started at the beginning of the year) and started with a Sit drag which I love, then moved to a XL Mantis. When I bought the Mantis I told myself if I didn’t fall in love with right away I would sell it. Needless to say after a dozen sits I sold it. Now I loving my Sit...

saddlehunter.com

@bj139 i wouldn’t go bashing other people’s sewing just to prove a point. Go look at some of @biggta5 more recent sewing it’s improved tremendously. I don’t think it’s fair to pull stuff from 8-10 months ago...

 

[bj139]

@bj139 i wouldn’t go bashing other people’s sewing just to prove a point. Go look at some of @biggta5 more recent sewing it’s improved tremendously. I don’t think it’s fair to pull stuff from 8-10 months ago...

That was the first search that popped up. I didn't bash his sewing. You brought it up. You must think it looks bad. I really didn't know.
This is why I wanted to limit this to manufactured saddles figuring that they know best. Please stick to the point from now on.

 

[bj139]

I am sorry if this thread offended anyone. That was not my intent. I just wanted to know how manufacturers sew their saddles for best strength.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

I am sorry if this thread offended anyone. That was not my intent. I just wanted to know how manufacturers sew their saddles for best strength.
This thread should probably be closed and put to rest.
Please close.

I am sorry the question got off track. No one should be offended by facts


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[bj139]

I am sorry the question got off track. No one should be offended by facts


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My original question was answered by the Sailrite post and it took one of the members here to point that out so I am satisfied. I have the information I need to sew a few saddles with adequate strength. It would have been nice to have seen a few photos of other saddle sewing details. Thanks for posting.

 

[Homebrew454]

Where can I find the Biggta5 thread on how to sew saddles?
Why would emulating commercial saddle manufacturers not be good? They seem to have an interest in making saddles as safe as possible.

I found this thread with pictures. Are these really good stitches?

Modified Sit Drag clone

New to saddle hunting (started at the beginning of the year) and started with a Sit drag which I love, then moved to a XL Mantis. When I bought the Mantis I told myself if I didn’t fall in love with right away I would sell it. Needless to say after a dozen sits I sold it. Now I loving my Sit...

saddlehunter.com

I was recommending looking at the stitching he used from the pictures in this/your thread. That would be a good stitching method to secure your main life support webbing (the 2 inch webbing).

I used a similar stitch pattern on my build last year. It is buried in my storage unit (moving in a month) and covered with fleece so I can't show it.

The one I made based on the phantom I just used standard box stitches. If you use the Sailrite link as a guide, it comes down to the amount of stitching that will hold. Their findings indicate that it is more the total amount of quality stitching than the shape of the stitch.

The panels or mesh are not life supporting. I just used 4 rows of stitching to secure my mesh to the seat belt webbing.


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