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Shock Loading and Planning for a Fall when One-Sticking

Fl Canopy Stalker

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I like how their leg loops is really low and the bridge designs. I recently heard about them too, mostly from FB, I dont think they have a present on this forum so its not talked about much. I do not own a single panel anymore but I would definitely give them a try if I dont get a CGM for Christmas.
CGM?
 

GCTerpfan

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I find threads of this type entertaining and sometimes comical even though they are meant to be taken seriously, as everyone should have their personal safety as the most important priority once both feet leave terra firma but let me explain why I say this before y'all vote me off the island. And for the record, this is not meant to insult or belittle anyone by any means, but more of a way to get everyone to step back and really look at the big picture and think rationally.

First let me say that I am a black and white thinker, I don't care about grey areas. The reality of what we do is dangerous, period. It is impossible to make it 100% safe, period. Can we reduce the risks and inherent dangers, yes but by how much we don't and will never really know. Each of us has a different acceptance level of what we deem to be safe and what amount of risk we feel comfortable with.

Devil's advocate time...

So we're concerned about shock loading while one sticking...then why would one be undertaking the climbing method that probably has the hands down highest percentage chance that something can go wrong and when it does, it has the potential of going wrong in a big way? It's the riskiest way to climb, if someone is truly concerned about their well being they shouldn't choose this method. See my point of saying it's comical? We have chosen this method first and then decided to worry about our safety and how to minimize the risks involved when in reality if personal safety was paramount this method should have been avoided. It's like putting the cart before the horse and then trying to make it work.

Now there are ways to reduce the risks and most of us know them but again we each decide just how much of a burden of safety we are willing to employ to feel satisfied that we did our part. Advance the tether with every step we take to keep slack at a minimum or does that take too long so we instead fly up the aider to the top step and then quickly raise the tether from our boots to above our head? The exposed risk time is less than 10 seconds doing it the latter way but makes the climb much quicker... How about using our linesman belt during the entire climb? That's a pita... We'll employ a screamer, well if we advance the tether as we should and keep slack to a minimum a screamer shouldn't be necessary. Maybe we'll use dynamic rope...again, if we keep a short tether the difference between dynamic and static rope on a super short fall is negligible. Don't put our fingers under the tether as we advance it...we only grab it from the top so our fingers won't get trapped... I Are you starting to see the comedy I am referring to? We rationalize safety to justify our means.

This safety concern shouldn't be limited to one sticking either. Gravity doesn't care what was the last piece of equipment we were standing on before she takes hold of us. Sticks, steps, spurs, bolts or ladders, the same staples of safety should be employed at all times those being a tether kept as high and slack free as possible and a linesman belt employed at all times during a climb. These along with vigilance in rope and gear inspections before each and every use will keep the odds of a mishap low but until humans grow wings there will always be that slight chance that something can go wrong no matter how safe we think we are.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this @slonstdy. You have arbitrarily drawn your black and white line at using/not using the one stick method. If we follow your logic and you go back on step like @kyler1945 pointed out. There is risk in climbing trees, so lets not try to find the safest method to climb a tree, lets sit on a bucket. Go back one more step, it's risky to drive a car, lets not make cars safer, lets walk to our hunting grounds. There's more risk in hunting than not, so lets not have hunter safety courses lets just not hunt.

I personally don't one stick for several different reasons but, if I did I would want to do it the safest way possible that still allowed me to accomplish my goals and enjoy my time in the woods. I also think these threads are important because I believe that most hunters, including the ones that one stick, don't truly understand how much force can be generated on very short falls.
 

Fl Canopy Stalker

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The NY Saddle Hunter has alot of good information on using ropes for saddle hunting.

Inregards to linesman rope safety, I think his approach is best. I'm an advocate of using your linesman as a redundant tether system parallel to your main tether since you already have the rope.

Also just my two cents as a man who has been through certified climbing school, maybe @Topdog could back me up on this or not? But in the video, he says when you cut out you ride the tree down. (Keep in mind the tall guy that is not in the video was the actual arborist) I’ve seen a little slip on telephone poles which would be like smooth bark trees, I definitely didn’t ride down the pole, I crashed into pretty hard and slid an inch or two from the rope rolling, but I keep my linesman above my waist at all times. I’ve cut out and I’ve never rode down more than a couple inches. His idea with the carabiner is a bad idea. Using a couple prusiks or some accessory cord as friction on the front side of the tree would work to keep it tight in the event of a fall. However you still do not want to allow it to slack and fall below your waist. Yes buck squeezes eliminate the worry of the rope grabbing, but again MOST saddles linesman loops wouldn’t sustain a true free fall on a 1.5:1 factor. Normally you’re about 12-14” out from the tree while on the linesman rope, even if you squeezed the linesman rope to the tree, if you climb up with it down by your knees and fall, you’re gonna wish you were dead because 100% of that force is going to your waist where it attaches to your riggers/safety belt. The injuries you’d sustain would be life altering or perhaps lethal. So instead of worrying about tree squeezes, my opinion is worry about using your linesman rope properly with it above your waist and you slightly leaning away yo keep tension to it. Just my observation. I do still adore the videos and content NY saddles hunter guys put out. They are great. I just don’t want people on here thinking a tree squeeze is a cure all so that you can allow slack into your system
 
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bj139

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I have been employing a cinched srt method with either a stick or platform so that the only time my climbing line is not weighted is when stepping on one of the two. Now there is a moment when there is a minor amount of slack introduced but I am using a lanyard at this time. I use a saddle that is designed for climbing and am familiar with hitches and other equipment specifically used for vertical applications. Leaving the ground is an inherent risk and thought must be employed. I am afraid that the race to get the highest in the least amount of moves with some sketchy equipment can prove problematic. We as a saddle hunting community do things that are questionable at best compared to U.S. standards for rope access and totally not up to par with European standards( for instance using 2 lines for accent). If anyone chooses to add risk to an already dangerous endeavor that is a personal thing but please educate and get some training as we all want to return home safely after the hunt.
With SRT, my rope is always weighted, a major advantage, IMHO. Of course, if you don't fall, it is no advantage. Take your choice.
 

_Dario

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Another thought I had about this today. This is kind of morbid but hear me out.

If you were one sticking and instead of your tether being attached to your saddle’s bridge, what if it was really a noose around your neck. How high would you be willing to climb up your aider and stick without advancing the tether? Would you wear a linesman belt?

I know my answers would be, as often as I could and yes I would wear a linesman belt. Just a fun little light hearted exercise to jog through next time you are climbing.
 

Fl Canopy Stalker

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Another thought I had about this today. This is kind of morbid but hear me out.

If you were one sticking and instead of your tether being attached to your saddle’s bridge, what if it was really a noose around your neck. How high would you be willing to climb up your aider and stick without advancing the tether? Would you wear a linesman belt?

I know my answers would be, as often as I could and yes I would wear a linesman belt. Just a fun little light hearted exercise to jog through next time you are climbing.
I mean that’s an excellent point. I think I’d keep my linesman rope secured and my climbing motion would be micro lol I could see it now, every aider would be 6” long :sweatsmile:
Excessive but still a unique way of analyzing it
 

slonstdy

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I'm going to have to disagree with you on this @slonstdy. You have arbitrarily drawn your black and white line at using/not using the one stick method. If we follow your logic and you go back on step like @kyler1945 pointed out. There is risk in climbing trees, so lets not try to find the safest method to climb a tree, lets sit on a bucket. Go back one more step, it's risky to drive a car, lets not make cars safer, lets walk to our hunting grounds. There's more risk in hunting than not, so lets not have hunter safety courses lets just not hunt.

I personally don't one stick for several different reasons but, if I did I would want to do it the safest way possible that still allowed me to accomplish my goals and enjoy my time in the woods. I also think these threads are important because I believe that most hunters, including the ones that one stick, don't truly understand how much force can be generated on very short falls.
I think you guys missed my point about me being a black and white thinker so let me try to clarify.

The point I was trying to get across is that I see climbing as a dangerous task no matter how it's done, and that steps to reduce the danger/make it safer are not making it exponentially safer or risk free but are being done more so by the climber to give themselves that "feel good about themselves" feeling or convince themselves that it's ok to proceed and that the chance of hurting themselves is reduced to almost nil. As long as one's body is elevated the danger will always be present, gravity is a constant. It's this false sense of security which is allowing one to justify the undertaking is what I was attempting and failed to illustrate.

Now I'm all in on safety and reducing the chances of injury by sharing information but the reality in this day and age is that folks believe in what they want to believe in as long as it fits their narrative and if it doesn't, then it's cast aside or cancelled. I'm only trying to reinforce the thought that what we do is dangerous and it should be on the forefront of everyone's mind on each climb no matter how many safety protocols are in place.

Now I never said I avoid dangerous undertakings, hell it seems I've had an affinity towards them my whole life. I choose to accept risky propositions for what they are and I don't down play them or make them into something else to make myself feel better. I do know my mind is highly focused and my senses heightened in those times when exposure is high. Idk maybe I'm an adrenaline junkie. What puzzles me is how the fudge you guys put black and white thinker to mean I don't one stick?? If you ain't one stickin then you ain't climbing the right way in my book!

Be safe everyone!
 

Fl Canopy Stalker

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I think you guys missed my point about me being a black and white thinker so let me try to clarify.

The point I was trying to get across is that I see climbing as a dangerous task no matter how it's done, and that steps to reduce the danger/make it safer are not making it exponentially safer or risk free but are being done more so by the climber to give themselves that "feel good about themselves" feeling or convince themselves that it's ok to proceed and that the chance of hurting themselves is reduced to almost nil. As long as one's body is elevated the danger will always be present, gravity is a constant. It's this false sense of security which is allowing one to justify the undertaking is what I was attempting and failed to illustrate.

Now I'm all in on safety and reducing the chances of injury by sharing information but the reality in this day and age is that folks believe in what they want to believe in as long as it fits their narrative and if it doesn't, then it's cast aside or cancelled. I'm only trying to reinforce the thought that what we do is dangerous and it should be on the forefront of everyone's mind on each climb no matter how many safety protocols are in place.

Now I never said I avoid dangerous undertakings, hell it seems I've had an affinity towards them my whole life. I choose to accept risky propositions for what they are and I don't down play them or make them into something else to make myself feel better. I do know my mind is highly focused and my senses heightened in those times when exposure is high. Idk maybe I'm an adrenaline junkie. What puzzles me is how the fudge you guys put black and white thinker to mean I don't one stick?? If you ain't one stickin then you ain't climbing the right way in my book!

Be safe everyone!
I ain’t climbing right then because I’m ropes or hooks or ladders lmao all of my methods minimize slack in my system. I don’t disagree with what you were saying. You made very valid points but so did @kyler1945. You’re right, doing anything at elevation is dangerous. I can also tell you that the vast majorities of people injured where I work, are not injured from climbing or working at heights, they are injured from arch flash or silly things like tripping over something on their way to the truck. If your gear is inspected and used properly, the odds of serious injury while in a saddle is absolutely exponentially lower. Which is why it is important to take that safety first approach. Other than that I feel like you articulated your opinion very well and I now understand your black and white thought process. Well put sir
 

Islandshooter

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I ain’t climbing right then because I’m ropes or hooks or ladders lmao all of my methods minimize slack in my system. I don’t disagree with what you were saying. You made very valid points but so did @kyler1945. You’re right, doing anything at elevation is dangerous. I can also tell you that the vast majorities of people injured where I work, are not injured from climbing or working at heights, they are injured from arch flash or silly things like tripping over something on their way to the truck. If your gear is inspected and used properly, the odds of serious injury while in a saddle is absolutely exponentially lower. Which is why it is important to take that safety first approach. Other than that I feel like you articulated your opinion very well and I now understand your black and white thought process. Well put sir
Couldn’t agree more that inspecting your gear is paramount. know the limits of your equipment and your own abilities. Use backups where you think they are prudent. Plan for a worst case scenario. train as if you’re doing the actual thing. As k good questions of knowledgeable people. Have fun and enjoy the outdoors.
 

GCTerpfan

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that steps to reduce the danger/make it safer are not making it exponentially safer or risk free but are being done more so by the climber to give themselves that "feel good about themselves" feeling or convince themselves that it's ok to proceed and that the chance of hurting themselves is reduced to almost nil. As long as one's body is elevated the danger will always be present, gravity is a constant. It's this false sense of security which is allowing one to justify the undertaking is what I was attempting and failed to illustrate.
In that case this is the part that I disagree with. The forces generated in a short fall are real and can be severe. Having a screamer or some type of deceleration device could very easily be the difference between a lifetime of annoying back issues (or worse) and simply having to change your underwear.
 

_Dario

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Just leaving this here!!

 
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