Shooters shoot thoughts..

[gcr0003]

I was fooling around with my Recurve yesterday and trying different string release/grip methods as well as different anchor points and aiming methods. I currently shoot 1 up, 2 under but I have a hard time lining up my shot left to right without canting the bow since I am unable to get my eye over enough to the arrow to line it up. I tried 3 under and the gap method and I was impressed at how simple and accurate the methods were. I was stacking arrows out to 20 yards which before now had been hard for me. The thing I didn’t like is that it felt wrong to me. The whole aiming part and even the release was strange. Something about “instinctive” (which I use loosely) shooting is what draws me to traditional archery in the first place. Like I said earlier I discovered that canting my bow I was able to get my eye over the arrows to line up my shot. I’m not completely against this method but I am curious if there is another drawing method or anchor point with split shooting that will allow me to achieve this without canting my bow. Maybe I should stick with the three under shooting. Ole Cam Hayes or whatever his name is went to this method for similar reasons described. What say yee SH old timers and trad gurus?

 

[Nutterbuster]

Your first shot you ever take is instinctive. The rest all involve your brain calculating the hold in some way. You wanna make it easy for that little ball of fat? Gap shoot.

Not gap shooting to me is like taking a ahotgun and instead of sighting down the barrel, shooting from the hip.

 

[Jtaylor]

Gap shoot for awhile if you're accurate with that method and eventually it'll feel "instinctive."

 

[gcr0003]

Your first shot you ever take is instinctive. The rest all involve your brain calculating the hold in some way. You wanna make it easy for that little ball of fat? Gap shoot.

Not gap shooting to me is like taking a ahotgun and instead of sighting down the barrel, shooting from the hip.

... come on now @Nutterbuster I know that. Hence the (which I use loosely). I simply mean that the wang and bang method of draw and shoot is appealing to me. I like not having to think about the shot. Right now I’m just a split finger purist. I’m also stubborn and rather make something difficult work then taking the easy route. I think that’s a big difference in how we hunt and what we enjoy about hunting. I want to go to a traditional bow because it’s harder. I only started deer hunting because of archery, and a big part of that was for the challenge. If I wanted to be the most efficient at killing stuff I’d use a rifle, but that hasn’t appealed to me. I still haven’t become an expert compound archery hunter and yet I am pulled more and more towards traditional gear.

Ok, back on point. My main question, which was poorly emphasized before. How can I center my eye over my arrow without canting? If it’s impossible I’ll decide which direction I want to go from there.

 

[gcr0003]

Gap shoot for awhile if you're accurate with that method and eventually it'll feel "instinctive."

I’d have to get over my self imposed feeling of it being cheating first haha

 

[Nutterbuster]

I’m also stubborn and rather make something difficult work then taking the easy route

Then put your saddle and camo away, turn off OnX, and log out of the forums. Take the scope off your rifle, stick the barrel in your hitch receiver, and lean on it.

There. It just got REALLY hard.

 

[gcr0003]

Then put your saddle and camo away, turn off OnX, and log out of the forums. Take the scope off your rifle, stick the barrel in your hitch receiver, and lean on it.

There. It just got REALLY hard.

I asked trad gurus and old timers for advice. Just because you’re an old spirit doesn’t make you an old timer and I know you aren’t a trad guru shooting that sacrilegious xbow.

All joking aside, just curious what some of y’all shoot, have shot, and why? Anchor points that work and why? Aiming style that works and why? Grips that work for you and why? That kind of thing. Don’t let @Nutterbuster scare y’all off.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I have nothing against any method a guy "aims" his trad bow, so do whatever works best for you. This is similar to the discussion on arrows...The "accepted" way may not be the right way for you.
Here's my thoughts on it for me, my way that works for me.

When hunting from a tree, I think canting the bow is not the most effective style. With a cant, the area needed for bow limb clearance of tree trunk, etc is greater. With a cant, you have a higher chance of limb tips hitting the tree trunk when you have to shoot towards the back side of the tree. But if you cannot shoot accurately with a vertical bow, then you have to live with a cant.

Maybe it took me a million arrows to ingrain it in my brain, but I do now shoot instinctive. Once I start my draw, I'm not consciously looking at the arrow. I raise the bow and point it toward the target and then draw (split finger), hit my corner of my mouth with my middle finger and release. I continue "aiming" thru the entire draw process. I don't draw, then aim...I'm actually aiming before I even begin the draw and I continue holding on target all the way thru the time of release. I get everything "locked in" with my bow arm and head before I begin my draw. I've found that if I plant my chin on my shoulder, my head stays in a consistent position relative to the bow and my bow arm. It helps me to be in the exact same head/eye/bow arm position with every shot. For me, planting my chin on my shoulder has made a big difference in my consistency of my form. Some days when I just don't seem to be shooting well, I realize that I'm lifting my head in order to "meet" the drawing hand. That screws me up. Bring the draw hand to the anchor, keeping the head in a stationary position. Turning, tilting, or adjusting the head during the draw makes too many inconsistencies for me. Plus, the distance from my bow hand to my anchor point is always exactly the same from shot to shot when I plant my chin on my shoulder. A "floating" head creates inconsistent draw length and also creates variation in bow torque.

I shot 3 under many years ago when I was trying to learn. I'm not sure if it was how the bow was tillered, or poor tuning, but I never was happy with my arrow flight. But since I'm shooting instinctive now and not looking at the arrow during the draw process, then there is not really any good reason to have the arrow closer to my eye.

I really dislike a swing draw. I want my bow up and pointed toward the target before I start to draw. It allows me to know my limb tips have clearance. Flexing the limbs before you are on target does not assure me that my tips won't hit an obstruction as they come forward during the shot. It's happened to me.
Plus, a swing draw creates more movement at the moment of truth. A "static" draw takes only the movement of my draw arm. Less chance of being busted.

 

[gcr0003]

I have nothing against any method a guy "aims" his trad bow, so do whatever works best for you. This is similar to the discussion on arrows...The "accepted" way may not be the right way for you.
Here's my thoughts on it for me, my way that works for me.

When hunting from a tree, I think canting the bow is not the most effective style. With a cant, the area needed for bow limb clearance of tree trunk, etc is greater. With a cant, you have a higher chance of limb tips hitting the tree trunk when you have to shoot towards the back side of the tree. But if you cannot shoot accurately with a vertical bow, then you have to live with a cant.

Maybe it took me a million arrows to ingrain it in my brain, but I do now shoot instinctive. Once I start my draw, I'm not consciously looking at the arrow. I raise the bow and point it toward the target and then draw (split finger), hit my corner of my mouth with my middle finger and release. I continue "aiming" thru the entire draw process. I don't draw, then aim...I'm actually aiming before I even begin the draw and I continue holding on target all the way thru the time of release. I get everything "locked in" with my bow arm and head before I begin my draw. I've found that if I plant my chin on my shoulder, my head stays in a consistent position relative to the bow and my bow arm. It helps me to be in the exact same head/eye/bow arm position with every shot. For me, planting my chin on my shoulder has made a big difference in my consistency of my form. Some days when I just don't seem to be shooting well, I realize that I'm lifting my head in order to "meet" the drawing hand. That screws me up. Bring the draw hand to the anchor, keeping the head in a stationary position. Turning, tilting, or adjusting the head during the draw makes too many inconsistencies for me. Plus, the distance from my bow hand to my anchor point is always exactly the same from shot to shot when I plant my chin on my shoulder. A "floating" head creates inconsistent draw length and also creates variation in bow torque.

I shot 3 under many years ago when I was trying to learn. I'm not sure if it was how the bow was tillered, or poor tuning, but I never was happy with my arrow flight. But since I'm shooting instinctive now and not looking at the arrow during the draw process, then there is not really any good reason to have the arrow closer to my eye.

I really dislike a swing draw. I want my bow up and pointed toward the target before I start to draw. It allows me to know my limb tips have clearance. Flexing the limbs before you are on target does not assure me that my tips won't hit an obstruction as they come forward during the shot. It's happened to me.
Plus, a swing draw creates more movement at the moment of truth. A "static" draw takes only the movement of my draw arm. Less chance of being busted.

I completely agree that not everything works for everyone. I think I’m finding this even more evident in Archery. It all still reminds me of golf. Anyway, I still like to hear what works for other people so I can tinker with it myself. A lot of times it’s stuff I don’t even think of. I currently shoot straight up down for the exact reasons you described. In my question about the eye and the arrow I’m more concerned with getting the eye in line (over) the arrow than getting my eye at arrow level of that makes sense. With your draw to the chin, is your eye in line with your arrow? I haven’t ever heard of the chin to shoulder, interesting, thanks for sharing.

For the record Im not shooting any of these methods poorly. I’m just trying to figure out “my style” of shooting.

 

[gcr0003]

Also for the record I don’t think instinctive shoot purely exists. I’m acknowledging that by searching for a way to align my eye and arrow as points of aim.

 

[Jtaylor]

I’d have to get over my self imposed feeling of it being cheating first haha

I'm in no way a guru but I've been shooting a "trad" bow since I was little and made them out of saplings from the back 40 (not really, I had a small youth fiberglass kids bow). I cant the $^!& out of my bow because it offers me a better sight picture to keep both eyes open and see the full target plus the arrow is less apt to fall off the rest. I "gap" shoot with 3 under, even though I didn't know what that was when I was a kid because it was the most accurate way for me to hit my target. I hunt and target practice as much as I can bare fingered because I can feel if the string is twisting when I'm drawing back and I have an overall better "feel" anyways. I anchor with my thumb and forefinger cleft on my cheekbone so my pupil is centered right over the center of arrow on my severely canted bow. I'm zeroed in and thinking of my aiming point as I'm drawing back (similar to shooting a pistol). Don't feel bad about "aiming" a trad bow because there's no right way or wrong way, just whatever makes you accurate and the most effective and efficient hunter.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I completely agree that not everything works for everyone. I think I’m finding this even more evident in Archery. It all still reminds me of golf. Anyway, I still like to hear what works for other people so I can tinker with it myself. A lot of times it’s stuff I don’t even think of. I currently shoot straight up down for the exact reasons you described. In my question about the eye and the arrow I’m more concerned with getting the eye in line (over) the arrow than getting my eye at arrow level of that makes sense. With your draw to the chin, is your eye in line with your arrow? I haven’t ever heard of the chin to shoulder, interesting, thanks for sharing.

For the record Im not shooting any of these methods poorly. I’m just trying to figure out “my style” of shooting.

To be clear, I'm not drawing to my chin. I'm drawing to the corner of my mouth. I have my head turned towards the target with my bow arm up in the shooting position. I guess a better way to put what I do is that I "pop" my shoulder up to meet my chin. Yeah, my chin is planted on my shoulder, but the motion is more like shoulder-to-chin and not really chin-to-shoulder. We all have our unique physiques and this form is very natural feeling to me. Maybe someone with a different build or posture may find this awkward.
For me, there is not reason to get my eye over the arrow. I don't do that, so I cannot comment on it.

 

[EricS]

I shot a fixed crawl last year. Probably do the same this year with the addition of a clicker. I tried instinctive shooting years ago and it always took me a couple shots to get dialed in. With a foxed crawl there is very little gap between my arrow and I’m holding close to point on from 5-25 yards. Best thing is my first cold shot of the day hits close to where I’m looking. Form issues in a tree are a whole other problem.

 

[Old squirrel]

Watch Tom Clum on The Push YouTube.

 

[Heydeerman]

Your first shot you ever take is instinctive. The rest all involve your brain calculating the hold in some way. You wanna make it easy for that little ball of fat? Gap shoot.

Not gap shooting to me is like taking a ahotgun and instead of sighting down the barrel, shooting from the hip.

NB speaks the truth.

 

[Blacksmith]

... come on now @Nutterbuster I know that. Hence the (which I use loosely). I simply mean that the wang and bang method of draw and shoot is appealing to me. I like not having to think about the shot. Right now I’m just a split finger purist. I’m also stubborn and rather make something difficult work then taking the easy route. I think that’s a big difference in how we hunt and what we enjoy about hunting. I want to go to a traditional bow because it’s harder. I only started deer hunting because of archery, and a big part of that was for the challenge. If I wanted to be the most efficient at killing stuff I’d use a rifle, but that hasn’t appealed to me. I still haven’t become an expert compound archery hunter and yet I am pulled more and more towards traditional gear.

Ok, back on point. My main question, which was poorly emphasized before. How can I center my eye over my arrow without canting? If it’s impossible I’ll decide which direction I want to go from there.

Whats wrong w/canting? I shoot split fingers w/my widow. You can shoot straight up vertical w/split too. I like the cant because I shoot from a canoe and sitting on the ground but I can shoot straight up also, not a big issue. I anchor w/my middle finger on the corner of my mouth, for 50 yrs. I,ve tried three under but too set to change if I dont have to. The gap may be better at a distance but the simplicity of instinctive wins out for me. Just my 2 cents.

 

[swampsnyper]

[mention]Nutterbuster [/mention] shouldn’t even be allowed on this thread.
Now that that’s out of the way. Shoot what feels right for you. I shoot 3 under and cant. I know where my limbs are and set up accordingly. Never had a problem hitting a limb. Plus I have a long tether and bridge and hunt leaning out more than most. Use a ring of steps so I’m never standing vertical on a platform.

Shoot at night in the dark where you can’t see your arrow tip. Try to hit a laser pointers red dot on a target. That will let you know how instinctive you truly are.

Thinking too much is my biggest problem. If I have time to think, I’m my own worse enemy. Throw a target up in the air and I will be closer to hitting my mark than if it’s still on the ground. I struggle to let my instincts do the job. I shoot better if it happens fast and I don’t have time to think. I suffer from target panic. I’m my own worse enemy.

 

[gcr0003]

[mention]Nutterbuster [/mention] shouldn’t even be allowed on this thread.
Now that that’s out of the way. Shoot what feels right for you. I shoot 3 under and cant. I know where my limbs are and set up accordingly. Never had a problem hitting a limb. Plus I have a long tether and bridge and hunt leaning out more than most. Use a ring of steps so I’m never standing vertical on a platform.

Shoot at night in the dark where you can’t see your arrow tip. Try to hit a laser pointers red dot on a target. That will let you know how instinctive you truly are.

Thinking too much is my biggest problem. If I have time to think, I’m my own worse enemy. Throw a target up in the air and I will be closer to hitting my mark than if it’s still on the ground. I struggle to let my instincts do the job. I shoot better if it happens fast and I don’t have time to think. I suffer from target panic. I’m my own worse enemy.

Instinct can be something akin to muscle memory. I agree that if you take away light my brain has a hard time doing all the subconscious reference calculations. I shot in the dark last night and actually saw some of this. I will say that once I just drew and shot I got back locked on. The less I think the better I do as well. If I focus on where I want to put the arrow I usually shoot better too.

 

[GCTerpfan]

Instinct can be something akin to muscle memory. I agree that if you take away light my brain has a hard time doing all the subconscious reference calculations. I shot in the dark last night and actually saw some of this. I will say that once I just drew and shot I got back locked on. The less I think the better I do as well. If I focus on where I want to put the arrow I usually shoot better too.

The thing that helped my shooting the most was realizing that the brain can only focus on one thing at a time. When I am practicing, the things I focus on before the shot are my grip, front shoulder, hook, etc. which helps ingrain repeatable form but, when I draw I simply look at the spot I want to hit and I focus 100% on back tension. I consciously think "pull, pull, pull" until the shot breaks. When I am at full draw if I let my brain start thinking about other parts of my form, gaps, what my wife yelled at me for last, etc. my shooting suffers.

 

[gcr0003]

The thing that helped my shooting the most was realizing that the brain can only focus on one thing at a time. When I am practicing, the things I focus on before the shot are my grip, front shoulder, hook, etc. which helps ingrain repeatable form but, when I draw I simply look at the spot I want to hit and I focus 100% on back tension. I consciously think "pull, pull, pull" until the shot breaks. When I am at full draw if I let my brain start thinking about other parts of my form, gaps, what my wife yelled at me for last, etc. my shooting suffers.

Yea this is definitely like golf! You have to have decent form but if you get analysis paralysis on your form during the shot chances aren’t great for you. The comments about focusing on the shot is what I was trying to describe. Once I focus solely on what I’m trying to shoot over how I am shooting I usually put it where I want it. Everything past that for me is just consistency.