Shot Placement Thoughts/Broadhead Failure?

[EricS]

An autopsy would have told the truth. Everything else is just speculation. I just saw a post from a trusted source that tracks wounded deer professionally. He had a buck hit in about the same spot. Tracked it until the blood ran out and then far enough to conclude that it likely wasn’t a fatal hit. The buck was shot through the lungs two weeks later. When cleaning the buck the could see the scar from the broadhead the heart still had about a 2” cut on the bottom of it but it didn’t enter any chambers. Things just happen and you were probably a half inch from from finding her dead in that first bed. A half inch the other way and she’d probably still be alive.
@ImThere i love big mechanicals. I guess the biggest downside to big mechanicals vs heavy coc fixed blades is you lose the art of trailing deer. All but one deer I put a 2” rage through fell in sight. The one I shoulder shot has since likely died of natural causes.
Now for guys like THP who are getting it done on the ground shooting head on and through light brush all I can say is it’s a low percentage shot. The percentages are probably better with a heavy, slow, small diameter, coc, single beveled, fairy dusted, heat seeking, core drilling, brush busting broadhead.
Just shoot what you’re comfortable with and know that no matter what your bow/arrow/broadhead setup, how much you practice, or how responsible you think you are you will lose some deer. Most of those losses will be user error. A few will fall into the category of “it happens”.

 

[Hunter260]

An autopsy would have told the truth. Everything else is just speculation. I just saw a post from a trusted source that tracks wounded deer professionally. He had a buck hit in about the same spot. Tracked it until the blood ran out and then far enough to conclude that it likely wasn’t a fatal hit. The buck was shot through the lungs two weeks later. When cleaning the buck the could see the scar from the broadhead the heart still had about a 2” cut on the bottom of it but it didn’t enter any chambers. Things just happen and you were probably a half inch from from finding her dead in that first bed. A half inch the other way and she’d probably still be alive.
@ImThere i love big mechanicals. I guess the biggest downside to big mechanicals vs heavy coc fixed blades is you lose the art of trailing deer. All but one deer I put a 2” rage through fell in sight. The one I shoulder shot has since likely died of natural causes.
Now for guys like THP who are getting it done on the ground shooting head on and through light brush all I can say is it’s a low percentage shot. The percentages are probably better with a heavy, slow, small diameter, coc, single beveled, fairy dusted, heat seeking, core drilling, brush busting broadhead.
Just shoot what you’re comfortable with and know that no matter what your bow/arrow/broadhead setup, how much you practice, or how responsible you think you are you will lose some deer. Most of those losses will be user error. A few will fall into the category of “it happens”.

I’ve shot 3 deer full frontal from the ground and that’s by far one of my favorite shots. I use a heavy setup with a sharp fixed blade and haven’t had one of those fully pass through either in the guts or back legs. They bleed like crazy in my experience and die quickly.

 

[Nutterbuster]

@ImThere i love big mechanicals. I guess the biggest downside to big mechanicals vs heavy coc fixed blades is you lose the art of trailing deer. All but one deer I put a 2” rage through fell in sight. The one I shoulder shot has since likely died of natural causes.
Now for guys like THP who are getting it done on the ground shooting head on and through light brush all I can say is it’s a low percentage shot. The percentages are probably better with a heavy, slow, small diameter, coc, single beveled, fairy dusted, heat seeking, core drilling, brush busting broadhead.
Just shoot what

When I spent more time stalking hogs in the palmettos, I shot a 100 grain insert and a 150 grain 2 blade magnus stinger. On a pretty stout, small diameter arrow.

Now that I spend more time hunting small tracts of property close to a property line, I'm back to a 2" mechanical head and only taking slam dunk shots.

Although for what it's worth, last years buck ate a 23" arrow and rage all the way up to the nock straight through the chest between the shoulder blades.

 

[EricS]

I’ve shot 3 deer full frontal from the ground and that’s by far one of my favorite shots. I use a heavy setup with a sharp fixed blade and haven’t had one of those fully pass through either in the guts or back legs. They bleed like crazy in my experience and die quickly.

If I was hunting from the ground often especially if I was calling I would be shooting all the heavy coc and high foc I could stand. That’s probably the perfect setup for the type of hunting you do.
@Nutterbuster we both agree that all this stuff is just a tool. Most tools work really good when used within their design limits. A happy medium is probably where we should be but I sure do like watching deer pile up after being hit with a 2” broadhead. Truth is the three blade muzzy’s and nap thunderheads I grew up with would do anything we really needed a broadhead to do. Me keeping my composure was the biggest weakness in my system back then. Probably still is.

 

[slonstdy]

I shot this one this past Saturday from the ground from 40 yards with the deer a couple of feet higher in elevation than where I was standing. It was a slight quartering-to shot, complete pass through and I watched the deer walk 20 yards and fall over. Arrow went through the heart and caught the bottom of the offside lung. Easy to follow but not needed blood trail too.
Unless I quarter and pack out a deer in a far from home location, I always do an exploratory autopsy to gather as much info as I can to learn to how the kill took place.
FWIW, it was 585gr taw including the125gr Kudu Point , 29"dl at 60lbs.

 

[Hall17]

I shot this one this past Saturday from the ground from 40 yards with the deer a couple of feet higher in elevation than where I was standing. It was a slight quartering-to shot, complete pass through and I watched the deer walk 20 yards and fall over. Arrow went through the heart and caught the bottom of the offside lung. Easy to follow but not needed blood trail too.
Unless I quarter and pack out a deer in a far from home location, I always do an exploratory autopsy to gather as much info as I can to learn to how the kill took place.
FWIW, it was 585gr taw including the125gr Kudu Point , 29"dl at 60lbs.

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WOW! Awesome pictures of arrow path. That is pretty cool

 

[Nutterbuster]

If I was hunting from the ground often especially if I was calling I would be shooting all the heavy coc and high foc I could stand. That’s probably the perfect setup for the type of hunting you do.
@Nutterbuster we both agree that all this stuff is just a tool. Most tools work really good when used within their design limits. A happy medium is probably where we should be but I sure do like watching deer pile up after being hit with a 2” broadhead. Truth is the three blade muzzy’s and nap thunderheads I grew up with would do anything we really needed a broadhead to do. Me keeping my composure was the biggest weakness in my system back then. Probably still is.

I think my "happy medium" when I run out of my current arrows is going to involve the same DCA arrows and expandables I'm currently using, but with some 200 grain inserts. Just noticed last week they offered those as an option, pre-installed and ready to go. That should put a front-heavy 580 grain arrow moving around 290fps and generating about 115ft-lbs of energy and .773 slugs of momentum. Short of the chinadermic folding in half on the knuckle of the shoulder on entry, that should be a better bunker-buster setup than most and still let me have my 20 yard runs.

 

[DroptineKrazy]

That sir, Is pretty much a perfect shot in my opinion. Even if you swapped entry and exit holes. Nicely done and thanks for posting those great pics. Should be a very good learning experience for some on here. Nice low in the cavity,2 hole blood trail too.

 

[twdant]

I've unfortunately lost enough on shots similar to those to switch up my aiming point. When I'm on the ground I just aim for the double lung and forget the heart they and they won't go far. I feel like a double lung has less margin for error and is a much bigger target.

This. As much as we'd all like to be perfect archers, the truth is that given the circumstances at the breaking of the shot, we're all perfectly capable of missing by a significant amount. Of course, the perfect point of impact would be a high heart shot, right through all the juicy vessels, but a perfect point of impact does not a perfect point of aim make. Aim for the middle of the lungs, and you'll likely hit both, even with moderate arrow deviation. You won't be able to post a picture of a broadhead-shaped hole through the heart, but you will be able to put a bunch of meat in your freezer.

 

[1simplemann]

Shot this deer, and as you can tell by the pic, didn’t recover in time to take the meat. I’m just confused by the shot honestly. I was on the ground and felt like I drilled the deer. It’s right in that vital V just above the elbow.
View attachment 54565
It’s what this deer did after the shot that was so confusing. I knew I hit the deer good and watched her run about 60 yards while stumbling in the front end like it was going down. The deer disappeared and I’m 90% sure it crashed about 80 yards away. I waited about 30 minutes and walked to look for my arrow, since no deer were in the field. I never found the arrow. I waited another 20 minutes and started to look in the shot area for blood. There absolutely was no blood. Not at the shot or the specific trail the deer left on.

I waited about 20 more minutes and decided I’d sneak in the direction the deer left in, hoping to find blood or sign. About 75 yards away it was bedded in the middle of the field and I walked to within 10 yards with my head down looking for blood before I saw it there looking at me. Once it ran off blowing I knew something was wrong. There was no blood on the side of the deer and in the bed only the tiniest few drops of blood.

I went home really confused, I thought I must have hit guts or something. I went back the next day and buzzards were circling already, just 12 or so hours after the shot. The deer was dead about 200 yards away from the bed, maybe 300 yards from the hit.

What do you think of this shot? I think I’m maybe 2 inches low but a deer can easily move 2 inches or more from when the bow goes off to impact. I will say I was shooting a cut on contact 4 blade which was hunting sharp, but not the scalpel sharp I would prefer.
My buddy held tight in the vital v on another buck and hit just a couple inches too far forward. That shot was outside of the body cavity and non fatal we believe.

I think going forward, I’ll shoot a couple inches back and not worry about holding so low. I’ll not be shooting a broadhead that is scary scary sharp either.

Obviously the shot was fatal. However where was the exit? I've hit them there several times. They didn't go far.

 

[Hunter260]

Obviously the shot was fatal. However where was the exit? I've hit them there several times. They didn't go far.

Exit was same place or slightly higher because I was on the ground

 

[1simplemann]

Exit was same place or slightly higher because I was on the ground

Hmm. Sounds like good enough arrow placement to me. How far did the deer go? That deer should've tipped over quick. Sometimes they are just tough!

 

[Hunter260]

Hmm. Sounds like good enough arrow placement to me. How far did the deer go? That deer should've tipped over quick. Sometimes they are just tough!

He went maybe 100 at most and I jumped him 1 hour after the shot. He looked perfectly healthy when I jumped him. He was dead about 200 yards away.

 

[colin.704]

I used to aim for heart shots and made a few what I consider good hits like that, only to end up having the deer travel like yours did. I now try to center lung, they usually are down within sight. I hate just taking a head and no meat, or worse wounding an animal

 

[Hunter260]

I used to aim for heart shots and made a few what I consider good hits like that, only to end up having the deer travel like yours did. I now try to center lung, they usually are down within sight. I hate just taking a head and no meat, or worse wounding an animal

Yep, I’ve never had a problem when I hit em center of the lungs. Idk why I ever thought I should change things.

 

[Hall17]

Yep, I’ve never had a problem when I hit em center of the lungs. Idk why I ever thought I should change things.

Its one of those things that doesn't need extra attention. Both lungs and they go down quick. The buck I shot this year I hit in the lower 1/2 of the heart. He went about 60 yards and died. However, that wasn't my ideal shot placement when I drew back. I knew I hit him lower than I normally would have liked but got lucky I guess. I like center mass/double lung hits

 

[Hunter260]

Its one of those things that doesn't need extra attention. Both lungs and they go down quick. The buck I shot this year I hit in the lower 1/2 of the heart. He went about 60 yards and died. However, that wasn't my ideal shot placement when I drew back. I knew I hit him lower than I normally would have liked but got lucky I guess. I like center mass/double lung hits

Kind of off topic but about 3-4 years back I got on the heavy arrow, COC, ultra penetrating, ranch fairy stuff pretty hard. Built some 750 grain arrows and killed several deer, but just realized it was overkill. If I ever did hit a deer in a less than perfect location I often had a poor blood trail. I do like the cut on contact heads and heavy arrows have tuned well for me. Next year I’m gonna shoot about a 650 grain arrow with a 200 grain fixed blade grizzlystik silver flame XXL that’s about 2” wide. Hopefully it’ll penetrate and leave a big hole.

 

[mattpsu1]

I think my "happy medium" when I run out of my current arrows is going to involve the same DCA arrows and expandables I'm currently using, but with some 200 grain inserts. Just noticed last week they offered those as an option, pre-installed and ready to go. That should put a front-heavy 580 grain arrow moving around 290fps and generating about 115ft-lbs of energy and .773 slugs of momentum. Short of the chinadermic folding in half on the knuckle of the shoulder on entry, that should be a better bunker-buster setup than most and still let me have my 20 yard runs.

This all sounds very good. I have a question maybe you can answer. I’m planning on drinking the kool aid so to speak and taking the plunge into the vertical crossbow world. I have been looking into arrow setups and I did see that the DCA ones are most popular. They come in 300 spine only. If adding the 200 grain inserts, is there a chance the 300 spine arrow will be under spined? I do like the idea of getting to at least 500-550 grains with a 100 grain head but didn’t want to do it if it would be unsafe or erratic in that spine. Thanks a lot, Matt

 

[weekender21]

Shot this deer, and as you can tell by the pic, didn’t recover in time to take the meat. I’m just confused by the shot honestly. I was on the ground and felt like I drilled the deer. It’s right in that vital V just above the elbow.
View attachment 54565
It’s what this deer did after the shot that was so confusing. I knew I hit the deer good and watched her run about 60 yards while stumbling in the front end like it was going down. The deer disappeared and I’m 90% sure it crashed about 80 yards away. I waited about 30 minutes and walked to look for my arrow, since no deer were in the field. I never found the arrow. I waited another 20 minutes and started to look in the shot area for blood. There absolutely was no blood. Not at the shot or the specific trail the deer left on.

I waited about 20 more minutes and decided I’d sneak in the direction the deer left in, hoping to find blood or sign. About 75 yards away it was bedded in the middle of the field and I walked to within 10 yards with my head down looking for blood before I saw it there looking at me. Once it ran off blowing I knew something was wrong. There was no blood on the side of the deer and in the bed only the tiniest few drops of blood.

I went home really confused, I thought I must have hit guts or something. I went back the next day and buzzards were circling already, just 12 or so hours after the shot. The deer was dead about 200 yards away from the bed, maybe 300 yards from the hit.

What do you think of this shot? I think I’m maybe 2 inches low but a deer can easily move 2 inches or more from when the bow goes off to impact. I will say I was shooting a cut on contact 4 blade which was hunting sharp, but not the scalpel sharp I would prefer.
My buddy held tight in the vital v on another buck and hit just a couple inches too far forward. That shot was outside of the body cavity and non fatal we believe.

I think going forward, I’ll shoot a couple inches back and not worry about holding so low. I’ll not be shooting a broadhead that is scary scary sharp either.

Assuming the exit is in a similar location that really looks like a heart shot. It’s impossible to tell exactly what the leg/shoulder placement was at the shot but you barely missed the heart.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kurt]

I shot this one this past Saturday from the ground from 40 yards with the deer a couple of feet higher in elevation than where I was standing. It was a slight quartering-to shot, complete pass through and I watched the deer walk 20 yards and fall over. Arrow went through the heart and caught the bottom of the offside lung. Easy to follow but not needed blood trail too.
Unless I quarter and pack out a deer in a far from home location, I always do an exploratory autopsy to gather as much info as I can to learn to how the kill took place.
FWIW, it was 585gr taw including the125gr Kudu Point , 29"dl at 60lbs.

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Good shot. Dead deer, but I'd take that shot 2 inches higher too. Were you aiming that low?