Sticks don't seem to bite into Poplar Tree well

[gettingstarted]

Hi All,

I have hawk helium sticks/amsteel daisy chain with black diamond ladder aider . Been practicing climbing on pine trees without any issues. Sticks are rock solid when locked.

Recently came across a good spot with poplars

The sticks don't seem to bite into the bark well. Grooves on the bark don't seem to be large enough for stick teeth fit in.


Stick holds ok with downward pressure(once I lock it by jerking down), however any upwards or side pressure (even a lightest touch) simply moves the stick.

Curious, if there are any remedies for it ?
Am I doing something wrong ?

Thanks in advance

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Hi All,

I have hawk helium sticks/amsteel daisy chain with black diamond ladder aider . Been practicing climbing on pine trees without any issues. Sticks are rock solid when locked.

Recently came across a good spot with poplars

The sticks don't seem to bite into the bark well. Grooves on the bark don't seem to be large enough for stick teeth fit in.


Stick holds ok with downward pressure(once I lock it by jerking down), however any upwards or side pressure (even a lightest touch) simply moves the stick.

Curious, if there are any remedies for it ?
Am I doing something wrong ?

Thanks in advance

In my experience daisy chains don’t seem to bite as well into trees because they rarely land perfect for the versa button and the daisy loop. So then you end up with the stick sagging to hold tight. Have you tried the same tree with the cam straps that come with sticks? Or possibly a ratchet strap instead? Just wondering if the strap holding tighter to trees bark, might bite better for you

 

[raisins]

Standard daisy chain method has too much slack and just doesn't work well. Many people that use them are now moving to a trucker's hitch method which is tighter than a cam buckle.

I use this same method but with steps and it works great.

On sticks with a daisy chain, you can also do a rope mod method and finish it by putting a loop over the button.

With these things, fast and easy usually means less secure.

 

[Recurveaholic]

Hi All,

I have hawk helium sticks/amsteel daisy chain with black diamond ladder aider . Been practicing climbing on pine trees without any issues. Sticks are rock solid when locked.

Recently came across a good spot with poplars

The sticks don't seem to bite into the bark well. Grooves on the bark don't seem to be large enough for stick teeth fit in.


Stick holds ok with downward pressure(once I lock it by jerking down), however any upwards or side pressure (even a lightest touch) simply moves the stick.

Curious, if there are any remedies for it ?
Am I doing something wrong ?

Thanks in advance

Really the only thing you could do is use a ratchet strap or one of the original straps that came with the Heliums. Unless you can tighten up the daisy chain where there is no slack in it maybe by using the tying method that @Nutterbuster used in one of his videos. Be safe.

 

[gettingstarted]

Thank you for the tips everyone !!

Will definitely try that truckers hitch method - looks like a very good remedy
Otherwise will fall back to original straps that came with it

 

[CZMark]

When Heliums were my #1 climbing method, I used the "Rope Mod" and had no issues on poplars.

 

[raisins]

Thank you for the tips everyone !!

Will definitely try that truckers hitch method - looks like a very good remedy
Otherwise will fall back to original straps that came with it

cam buckles have 2x leverage, trucker's hitch is 3x

also lighter and quieter than a buckle and packs small

you need some extra daisy chain though because you need tree circumference plus enough to tie the hitch.

 

[bigmike23]

cam buckles have 2x leverage, trucker's hitch is 3x

also lighter and quieter than a buckle and packs small

you need some extra daisy chain though because you need tree circumference plus enough to tie the hitch.

Nailed it. The daisy with the truckers hitch is almost impossible to kick out the stick. I got a long LW stick to kick out by literally kicking the side of the stick repeatably. But using that method with a beast stick makes it virtually impossible to kick out. I've had my sticks at some insane angles on crazy swamp trees and felt absolutely secure

 

[raisins]

Nailed it. The daisy with the truckers hitch is almost impossible to kick out the stick. I got a long LW stick to kick out by literally kicking the side of the stick repeatably. But using that method with a beast stick makes it virtually impossible to kick out. I've had my sticks at some insane angles on crazy swamp trees and felt absolutely secure

I'm typing this for OP, since you already know.....

When I use it with steps, the trick is to pull that sucker tight and then maintain tension while you secure your tag end. No use in letting it sag or use it as just another method without taking advantage of the leverage. I can use the trucker's hitch on step and bounce on the step and it maybe slides 1 inch down the tree. I use it on my predator platform, and it gets so tight after mild caming of platform, that I'm afraid it's too tight sometimes.

 

[thedutchtouch]

Really the only thing you could do is use a ratchet strap or one of the original straps that came with the Heliums. Unless you can tighten up the daisy chain where there is no slack in it maybe by using the tying method that @Nutterbuster used in one of his videos. Be safe.

I would not use the original strap that came with the helium's. The straps that came with mine last year stretch and slips and is very annoying to get tight, so I ditched them. (Assuming you're talking the cambuckle strap, I saw a post recently that they may have started shipping with a versastrap style). I used daisy chains on my helium's all last year on a variety of trees with no kickout. The truckers hitch linked previously works, or you can also rotate the bottom of the stick towards the daisy chain, put one or two daisy chain loops SHORTER than what you could reach to the versabutton on the button, and then crank the bottom of the stick back toward the tree. I found that doing this with a downward 45 degree motion would set the stick well, you may have to experiment. Daisy chains CAN be just as safe as a strap, just need a bit more know-how and practice, I look back and laugh at how loose I tried to set my first stick compared to now where I can almost see the stick bending towards the tree they are so tight.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I would not use the original strap that came with the helium's. The straps that came with mine last year stretch and slips and is very annoying to get tight, so I ditched them. (Assuming you're talking the cambuckle strap, I saw a post recently that they may have started shipping with a versastrap style). I used daisy chains on my helium's all last year on a variety of trees with no kickout. The truckers hitch linked previously works, or you can also rotate the bottom of the stick towards the daisy chain, put one or two daisy chain loops SHORTER than what you could reach to the versabutton on the button, and then crank the bottom of the stick back toward the tree. I found that doing this with a downward 45 degree motion would set the stick well, you may have to experiment. Daisy chains CAN be just as safe as a strap, just need a bit more know-how and practice, I look back and laugh at how loose I tried to set my first stick compared to now where I can almost see the stick bending towards the tree they are so tight.

That’s so weird my cam straps work great with my helium sticks… I didn’t like that strap with the monkey bars because it doesn’t get as tight as an OCB buckle but for their sticks and their platform, I haven’t had an issue with them. I have had plenty of issues with daisy chains though, but I will be the first to admit I have never tried a daisy chain using the modified truckers hitch.

 

[thedutchtouch]

That’s so weird my cam straps work great with my helium sticks… I didn’t like that strap with the monkey bars because it doesn’t get as tight as an OCB buckle but for their sticks and their platform, I haven’t had an issue with them. I have had plenty of issues with daisy chains though, but I will be the first to admit I have never tried a daisy chain using the modified truckers hitch.

It could have been user error too, I tried the straps once , they were right going up and slipped going down so I said NOPE. Did the opposite for platforms though, tried my daisy chains and went back to the stock straps on both my predator xl and trophy line mission.



Edited to add: if this exchange proves anything, it's that opinions will vary, and the best thing to do is practice with your system at ground level so you're comfortable before going up in a tree.

 

[Recurveaholic]

I would not use the original strap that came with the helium's. The straps that came with mine last year stretch and slips and is very annoying to get tight, so I ditched them. (Assuming you're talking the cambuckle strap, I saw a post recently that they may have started shipping with a versastrap style). I used daisy chains on my helium's all last year on a variety of trees with no kickout. The truckers hitch linked previously works, or you can also rotate the bottom of the stick towards the daisy chain, put one or two daisy chain loops SHORTER than what you could reach to the versabutton on the button, and then crank the bottom of the stick back toward the tree. I found that doing this with a downward 45 degree motion would set the stick well, you may have to experiment. Daisy chains CAN be just as safe as a strap, just need a bit more know-how and practice, I look back and laugh at how loose I tried to set my first stick compared to now where I can almost see the stick bending towards the tree they are so tight.

I haven't had any issues with my straps that came with mine but there is always different batches that perform different and like you said opinions will vary. I have never been able to get my daisy chain tight enough to please me but maybe trying like you described might help.

 

[thedutchtouch]

i feel like i should also add that last year was my first season, and i found i tended to climb thicker trees, people talk about basketball sized trees being ideal a lot but that's the smallese diameter i've been climbing for the most part. i think tree diameter can factor into the bite just as much as bark texture so keep that in mind when considering my/anyone's advice too.

 

[Recurveaholic]

i feel like i should also add that last year was my first season, and i found i tended to climb thicker trees, people talk about basketball sized trees being ideal a lot but that's the smallese diameter i've been climbing for the most part. i think tree diameter can factor into the bite just as much as bark texture so keep that in mind when considering my/anyone's advice too.

I hunt alot of older swamps with some pretty big trees also but most of the time on those I climb with bolts or spurs so the one stick doesn't make it to those.

 

[Islandshooter]

Standard daisy chain method has too much slack and just doesn't work well. Many people that use them are now moving to a trucker's hitch method which is tighter than a cam buckle.

I use this same method but with steps and it works great.

On sticks with a daisy chain, you can also do a rope mod method and finish it by putting a loop over the button.

With these things, fast and easy usually means less secure.

Even on cottonwoods, the truckers hitch locks them in tight! Only way I go now!

 

[gettingstarted]

Tried the trucker hitch method
It freaking a awesome, so much faster, stable, tight to the tree, less headaches trying to the loop over the buttons

Thank you for your suggestions