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Tell me about Mammut Smart 2.0

Marmuzz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
1,145
Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
Does anyone use the Mammut Smart 2.0 to ascend, hang, and rappel from with one sticking? I have been curious about trying it.

Currently I'm one sticking. I climb, hunt, and rappel on the same tether/rappel line (Canyon Elite). I'm ascending and hanging from a prusik, and then switching over to a Figure 8 with Klemheist on a lineman's loop to rappel. It's simple and works. I like the security of the friction hitches. I'm leery of mechanical devices and have mostly eyed the Safeguard craze as the latest spend-trend. But—I have to admit, I like the ability it would offer to bail out of the tree with the same rope, same device almost instantly. I've been trying to think of how to do this, sans Safeguard. Although the Smart 2.0 looks slightly less plug-and-play right out of the box (Mammut recommends using an HMS carabiner), it looks like it does everything Safeguard (without any mechanical parts) if you set it up with a friction hitch below on a lineman's loop.

Any input on using it to climb (especially one-sticking) and hang from?
 
Have almost bought one recently because of this video:


It looks like a good option when madrocks are hard to find, but I DO have a madrock too, so... I'll just stick with it.
 
Yup, I use one with canyon elite off and on. I’ll add stuff and let me know what else you want to know.
First up, Mammut is very specific about using an HMS style biner. The shape helps the device bite the line better. I’m sure you *could* use a different style but when a manufacturer of a device specifically mentions a type of whatever that works best I take notice especially in regards to self preservation. I’ve found it to be very smooth to use ascending, descending takes a bit getting used to because you kinda “tip” the device to slacken your line so you can rappel down. The 2.0 you can get a package (or just the insert) that is called a braking insert. So when you’re ascending or descending your brake hand keeps tension on the line disengaging the insert. We’re you to fall the device tilts rapidly upward due to the design which causes the insert to engage and forces the biner up into the gate locking the line. I tested it and it works and works quick. The insert really is meant for folks that don’t have a lot of exp with the device as you could theoretically tilt the device past 90 degrees and the device may not auto brake soon enough. The insert clips into the back and will not allow you to tilt the device back. Mammuts video does a pretty job of showing the device in action(it’s kinda loud and big on marketing but you’ll get the point)
The insert keeps you the user from raising your brake hand parallel to your line in which case the device wouldn’t be able to brake.(go to the 1:00 mark) In this regard it functions the same as many other devices like an ATC, etc.
Hope that made sense
 
Thanks for the feedback @Exhumis. I have several questions:

One thing I was wondering about, since this device relies on proper angle and tension, is how to maintain those aspects when one sticking as you’re moving all over. It looks like the safety insert would help solve that problem.

However, I was watching this climbing review of the Smart 2.0 and the reviewer suggests even with the safety insert that you never let go of the lead rope, but you must when one sticking. Even so, the safety insert combined with an autoblock seems it would prevent you from feeding out rope at an improper time and should keep your position secure without slippage.
  1. Is that consistent with your experience?
  2. Does the rope length between the device and the autoblock get in the way when climbing?
  3. Did you have any method for picking an HMS carabiner, or did you just pick the first pearbiner available? (Wondering how finicky the device is about a select carabiner.)
 
When I 1-stick climb, I don't find myself adjusting my tether length very much after the first move. I tend to think that tying a stopper knot after the device (probably an Alpine butterfly) would take care of both climbing and at-height hanging. You just have to untie it to rappel down

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[mention]Brocky [/mention] can weigh in with his expertise, but I’ve had some luck with other devices by putting a friction hitch above the smart with the legs coming down each side of the smart and then clipping the biner thru one leg, device and rope, then other leg of hitch. Device becomes your tender and everything is really neat and compact (depending on the length of hitch legs).

I really wanted the smart to work for me (and the edelrid mega jul, and pilot, and and and, but none seem to on C-IV or Oplux. I don’t have canyon elite to try. And yes, I was using an HMS style biner…

Also, the smart 2.0 kit comes with the anti tilt device and their recommended carabiner.


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@JBDaddy I get what you’re saying but because my main impetus for considering this device is the ability to instantly rappel at any point, that method would defeat the purpose for me.
 
Thanks for the feedback @Exhumis. I have several questions:

One thing I was wondering about, since this device relies on proper angle and tension, is how to maintain those aspects when one sticking as you’re moving all over. It looks like the safety insert would help solve that problem.

However, I was watching this climbing review of the Smart 2.0 and the reviewer suggests even with the safety insert that you never let go of the lead rope, but you must when one sticking. Even so, the safety insert combined with an autoblock seems it would prevent you from feeding out rope at an improper time and should keep your position secure without slippage.
  1. Is that consistent with your experience?
  2. Does the rope length between the device and the autoblock get in the way when climbing?
  3. Did you have any method for picking an HMS carabiner, or did you just pick the first pearbiner available? (Wondering how finicky the device is about a select carabiner.)
Yes, I’ve found the brake insert helps keep the device at the proper angle but honestly it does anyway if you move the device as you ascend-so for example, set stick. Climb two aider steps, reposition device higher on line. Climb last aider step and one step on stick, slide device up. Climb last step on stick, slide device up. Step off the stick and hang from line, reposition stick, wet/lather/rinse/repeat. I’ve had zero issues climbing this way.
I don’t use an autoblock or backup device when climbing or descending, many manufacturers recommend you do not because were the autoblock to become entangled in the device it might break or weaken it. I have been experimenting with backing up the device with a prusik when I’m at hunting height and all set just in case I twist around and the device were to slacken a bit. But honestly with the canyon elite and the biner it bites pretty hard.
The only way I see you falling would be if your braking hand was parallel to your line so that both your tether/rappel line and your slack were parallel-that defeats the braking action of just about every device. The insert keeps the user from doing just that. But I’ve found for normal climbing it works just fine, even if you don’t “set” it meaning you slide the ascender up and then give it a tug it still sets itself and I believe this is where proper line and biner selection come into play. I tried some kong ovals on it, some black diamond pear biners, the wild country biners, some metolious biners, etc just to see what would work and by far the hms style works the best and the one Mammut sells with the kit works great. I like the swinging gate on it. At first I thought I’d hate it but I’ve found I like it because it separates the bridge from the device and allows me to perform a quick visual check to see if my climbing system is rigged correctly. Also, the swing gate WILL NOT close unless the screw gate us screwed shut this providing another safety check. I honestly don’t think I need the insert but I want it. Accidents don’t happen when you’re sitting at home, they happen when you’re driving home, tired and distracted. I keep it there for that one time I’m descending in the dark, tired cold and frustrated after seeing no deer and reading all the posts from team 6 and I get sloppy cuz I’m distracted. I really like the smart and will continue to use it.
 
@JBDaddy I get what you’re saying but because my main impetus for considering this device is the ability to instantly rappel at any point, that method would defeat the purpose for me.
I can rappel just as fast with the smart as I can with my safeguard and if I go too fast it brakes just as fast as my safeguard. Ymmv.
 
[mention]Brocky [/mention] can weigh in with his expertise, but I’ve had some luck with other devices by putting a friction hitch above the smart with the legs coming down each side of the smart and then clipping the biner thru one leg, device and rope, then other leg of hitch. Device becomes your tender and everything is really neat and compact (depending on the length of hitch legs).

I really wanted the smart to work for me (and the edelrid mega jul, and pilot, and and and, but none seem to on C-IV or Oplux. I don’t have canyon elite to try. And yes, I was using an HMS style biner…

Also, the smart 2.0 kit comes with the anti tilt device and their recommended carabiner.


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So does your friction hitch above the device serve as your rappel release control in place of a friction hitch on a lineman’s loop? And are you saying this method didn’t really work with the Smart? Also I’d love to see a picture of that setup if you have one.
 
I don’t use an autoblock or backup device when climbing or descending, many manufacturers recommend you do not because were the autoblock to become entangled in the device it might break or weaken it. I have been experimenting with backing up the device with a prusik when I’m at hunting height and all set just in case I twist around and the device were to slacken a bit. But honestly with the canyon elite and the biner it bites pretty hard.

Oof, that feels to me like a catch-22 between using the device “safely” as per manufacturer guidelines and using it “safely” with a backup. I know you said it locks up well with Elite rope and HMS biner. It would still be my preference to have a backup… that’s another reason I’m suspicious of the Safeguard. At least with the Smart I wouldn’t be trusting my life to some tiny inner mechanisms I can’t see. I just like the thought if everything goes to pot in a second of having a friction hitch to hold ya. (I know it’s all about the risks you accept and every method has its drawbacks.)

I’m wondering if pairing the Smart, with the braking insert, with a friction hitch below, is the best of all worlds.

Is the swing gate on that kit carabiner metal?
 
I honestly don’t think I need the insert but I want it. Accidents don’t happen when you’re sitting at home, they happen when you’re driving home, tired and distracted.
I appreciate your detailed feedback and emphasis on safety. I’m realizing for myself this may not be a question of Smart vs. Safeguard but “With either device how comfortable am I hanging from a device if no backup can be included?”
 
that’s another reason I’m suspicious of the Safeguard. At least with the Smart I wouldn’t be trusting my life to some tiny inner mechanisms I can’t see.

Have you gotten an up-close look at how a safeguard works? It's not tiny inner mechanism at all... It's a metal pinch inside a sleeve. Make a fist with one hand and push the pointy knuckles of it into the palm of your other hand, imagine a piece of rope was stuck between them. That's it. The sleeve just traps the rope from escaping out the sides and gives your carabiner something to hang on to. The metal pinch is a knuckle/egg-shaped piece of solid metal that traps your rope up against another flat (eh, curved a bit) piece of metal. Pulling down on the carabiner hole rotates the knuckle angle closer toward the other metal, tightening it's pinch on rope caught in between. They're not moving parts so much, just an egg shape that rotates. The only mechanism in it is the handle/lever. That lever pulls the egg shape back away from the pinch (like rotating your fist's elbow downward reduces force against your other palm), depending on how hard you pull it. It just leverages against the pulling-down carabiner force to release pressure allowing rope to slide through it. There's a rotating handle on that lever to keep you from accidentally pulling it, so you actually have to be TRYING to do it. That's really all there is too it - the clever ness is in how it rotates to pinch rope, and that's not really rocket science.

The mammut smart 2.0 has the same kind of pinch, just differently constructed/levered, actually using your carabiner as one of the pinch surfaces instead of just something that hangs on. It's lighter because it uses less material (relying on a carabiner you'd have to use anyway, same way a ropeman does).

BOTH should be backed up with an autoblock if they're being used for suspend a person.
 
I appreciate your detailed feedback and emphasis on safety. I’m realizing for myself this may not be a question of Smart vs. Safeguard but “With either device how comfortable am I hanging from a device if no backup can be included?”
You’ve hit the nail on the head. Much of the equipment we use we’re using in ways it was not expressly designed for so much of it comes down to your comfort level. Think that’s why many of us who rappel/one stick/whatever use some kind of backup when at height. It’s the coming and going where folks differ. But you’re absolutely right, you need to be comfortable with your equipment, and if that means throwing a backup on the braking side of your device then that’s what you should do.
 
I picked one up here on the classifieds. I picked up the giant green HMS carabiner from EWO, neither that nor my black diamond carabiners reliably stop me with Canyon IV. It might be operator error, but I’m less confident than an 8 backed up with autoblock. And it is not any more smooth as an ascender than a tended schwabisch. If you buy, try the included carabiner, wish I would have, that’s likely my issue.

It does tend a hitch nicely, but the little plastic doohickey fromEWO is a lot lighter and quieter.


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Have you gotten an up-close look at how a safeguard works?
I have not seen the nuts-and-bolts of a Safeguard. Your explanation of its function as compared to the Smart was helpful, thanks! Here’s what still gives me pause about it, and maybe I’m being stupid and missing something critical but this is my current viewpoint: I know the talking point comparing the Lifeguard and Safeguard is the inclusion of a spring, with the Safeguard purposefully lacking that spring. But isn’t there still a spring in the Safeguard handle? If not, how does the handle return to tension when released? (Not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to wrap my mind around the concept. Mechanical things aren’t my forte.) My assumption (if correct) about the handle spring’s existence is what concerns me. It’s an improbable long shot, but the failure of that mechanism if not backed up could send the user into a potential free fall. For that reason, there’s something more comforting to me about the Smart 2.0 being a hunk of metal which I can eyeball instantly and know if it’s tipping a certain direction that rope will be pinched or released vs. an unseen component in the Safeguard which I’m hoping is in good condition and operates correctly. But if I’m wrong about the handle spring, please correct me. I don’t want to spread misinformation when this subject is dangerous enough without false claims being online made by some novice tree climbing hobbyist (me).
 
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Thinking aloud here:

With any assisted braking device, I’d prefer to run with a backup. After watching Spencer’s video, the Smart 2.0 struck me as the perfect compromise between freewheeling without a backup (Safeguard, as advised by manufacturer I believe but double check for yourself) and Figure 8 + friction hitch method rappelling if you can ascend, hang, and rappel all in rappel mode with a backup below.

From what I can tell, Mammut’s user manual does not explicitly say to not use a friction hitch backup, above or below. It just isn’t mentioned. However, it does explicitly say to “never hold the brake rope parallel to the guide rope” (which a friction hitch on a lineman’s loop below the device should help maintain) and “the braking hand must always be below the device and must always be grasping the brake line” (which again, a friction hitch in that setup would simulate). So, I’m feeling like pairing the Smart with a friction hitch effectively accomplishes what the device is designed to do. Even when climbing and hanging then, as long as you keep proper tension and alignment between the device and the lower friction hitch, you’d be effectively be “constantly rappelling” but not moving since the autoblock is locking down the rope’s ability to actually descend.

To be fair lest anyone run away to the races, the manual also explicitly says the device is “to be used with dynamic single ropes” so anyone using it with Canyon C-IV, Elite, Sterling HTP, *insert other static ropes common round these parts, is automatically using the Smart 2.0 out of spec. Don’t go crying to Mammut about it if you do so and have issues.
 
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I have found that using twin 6-7mm lines is the only reliable way to hang in it solo, maybe the sideways pressure helps. If you hang on your rappel line the hitch above, you can instantly descend to ground. A Figure 8 can be used the same way and doesn’t put a bend in the rope, which is helpful if using your foot as an ascender.
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