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Tethrd Phantom

cspot said:
People seem to go nuts about patents. If you ever do want to do some reading go read some of the bow and crossbow patents that are out there. They literally have just about everything patented.

Here is 10 points patents. Go google the number and read some of them. For example they have a patent on a narrow crossbow with large powerstroke. When you look at it you wonder how they could patent that.

www.tenpointcrossbows.com

Patent Technologies

Learn more about the numerous patents held by TenPoint Crossbow Technologies.
www.tenpointcrossbows.com www.tenpointcrossbows.com

Patents are just the way the business world works. If you don't get patents then everyone will just copy your good ideas and you won't make money on all the R&D that you do.

Also people wonder why some products cost so much. Some of that is because they are using other people's patents and are paying money for the use of that patent. That happens alot. For example Tenpoint owns the reverse draw patent on crossbows. Any other company out there using a reverse draw has some type of agreement with Tenpoint.
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Patents don’t necessarily exist to prevent people from copying you but giving you legal recourse when they do. If someone blatantly copies your patented IP, in the US, you have the ability to sue to collect royalties or in extreme cases have those products removed from the market. An alarming amount of companies play the “better to ask for forgiveness than for permission” game when it comes to intellectual property. Use someone’s idea until a court order tells you not to, then hope to settle for an amount that was less than your net profit from stealing said IP.


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Blind folds are not bad. Our saddle bias and desire to like something because of who made it is real. It is harder to be totally objective and honest when you are rooting for the guys who made it.
Also a 15 minute comfort test is totally unreliable.

There are so many manufacturers of products that seem to be great guys It makes objectivity very difficult At least for me


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d_rek said:
Patents don’t necessarily exist to prevent people from copying you but giving you legal recourse when they do. If someone blatantly copies your patented IP, in the US, you have the ability to sue to collect royalties or in extreme cases have those products removed from the market. An alarming amount of companies play the “better to ask for forgiveness than for permission” game when it comes to intellectual property. Use someone’s idea until a court order tells you not to, then hope to settle for an amount that was less than your net profit from stealing said IP.


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Click to expand...

Yes you are correct. This practice also drives up the cost of products, because companies spend alot money on lawyers fighting over patents and sometimes it isn't worth the cost to go after someone. This also hurts the little guy because if a big company steals his patented idea, he may have trouble having enough money to fight it and the larger company simply draws out the legal battle.
 
Ontariofarmer said:
Blind folds are not bad. Our saddle bias and desire to like something because of who made it is real. It is harder to be totally objective and honest when you are rooting for the guys who made it.
Also a 15 minute comfort test is totally unreliable.

There are so many manufacturers of products that seem to be great guys It makes objectivity very difficult At least for me


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Click to expand...
True, and appearance (both aesthetically and commercially for me) is also a big factor. I personally think the mantis looks cheap and when I buy something I want it to last. I think heavier material in the kestrel will last longer and it does fit me better. I think the phantom looks more beefy than the mantis and from a commercial stand point, I love what Tethred is doing. I bought many of their accessories including the predator platform, pack, sys haulers, gear tree strap etc. I love them all and I'd like to use one of their saddles,.... just because. A blind test would be great because comfort should rule over appearance, brand loyalty etc.

Tom
 
cspot said:
Yes you are correct. This practice also drives up the cost of products, because companies spend alot money on lawyers fighting over patents and sometimes it isn't worth the cost to go after someone. This also hurts the little guy because if a big company steals his patented idea, he may have trouble having enough money to fight it and the larger company simply draws out the legal battle.
Click to expand...

Exactly why patents are only as good as the money that defends them.
 
EricS said:
I think all new saddlehunters should try to make an event and try as many saddles as they can. I’m not sure they should be blindfolded. There is more to test than just comfort. Walking in it, putting it on, and comfort are all important. The comfort part is tough to test. If it sucks after 15 minutes it’s going to suck no matter what but the most comfortable one after 15 minutes won’t necessarily be the most comfortable in three hours. If they are new to saddle hunting nothing is probably going to feel great after three hours.
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Agree with you and I know it is not practical or realistic, this was more of a hypothetical thought, just trying to get people to think a bit. I have never agreed with the recommendations to newbies guys keep giving on here to just buy one without trying it first and see if it works for you or you can sell it. How many folks have tried a saddle that was wrong for them and will never try one again? That is a legitimate situation, not everyone in the general hunting community will give them a second try, and I know some personally. Folks should be reaching out to try others saddles or attending Saddlepaloozas to try them in person before buying. You can tell in less than 2 minutes when a saddle will not work for you for sure, you don't even need 15 minutes. I commend Tethrd for doing the tour this year to let people try theirs in person. The other companies have done a terrible job of advertising and marketing and evidently do not want to grow their businesses in the same manner.
 
Yeah I will probably be getting one just simple reason cup shape adjustable bridge and the adjustable channels for the bridge for me I find comfort in the mantis but I have to move it down every now and then which I mean so what i haven’t had hip pinch so far which iv only hunted out of it 4 times one I sit was 8 hours others was shorter because I was fortunate enough to harvest deer in those sits early.
So if I find comfort in the mantis and the phantom is pretty much upgraded mantis I’m positive it will be worth it for me.


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@Bwhana I agree. It would be nice to know how many people purchase a saddle and don’t even use it after a year or two. If you’re hunting from permanent treestands or climbers moving to a saddle is a big step that requires you to develop new skills. It’s a lot of work and it doesn’t magically make you a better hunter.
 
EricS said:
@Bwhana I agree. It would be nice to know how many people purchase a saddle and don’t even use it after a year or two. If you’re hunting from permanent treestands or climbers moving to a saddle is a big step that requires you to develop new skills. It’s a lot of work and it doesn’t magically make you a better hunter.
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I expect some quit because they get a saddle that is not right for them. The wrong first saddle would make me question saddle hunting. I have tried quite a few and I am glad I did not start in a really painful saddle.
You are correct saddle hunting is more work than non mobile hunting. If you are already a mobile hunter you are more likely to persevere and figure it out because it is less work than other methods of mobile hunting.
Would you like to carry a ladder stand or a climber or a hang on and sticks or bolts and a saddle. Which is less work? No brainer for a mobile hunter.
Friends who hunt in the same stand every day would think saddle hunting is too much work and no fun.
 
Ontariofarmer said:
I expect some quit because they get a saddle that is not right for them. The wrong first saddle would make me question saddle hunting. I have tried quite a few and I am glad I did not start in a really painful saddle.
You are correct saddle hunting is more work than non mobile hunting. If you are already a mobile hunter you are more likely to persevere and figure it out because it is less work than other methods of mobile hunting.
Would you like to carry a ladder stand or a climber or a hang on and sticks or bolts and a saddle. Which is less work? No brainer for a mobile hunter.
Friends who hunt in the same stand every day would think saddle hunting is too much work and no fun.
Click to expand...

A lot of guys buy the next best thing and give it 5 minutes before they make their mind up. You see this all the time on the beast as well. The saddle market has the potential to be huge, but we will never capture the lazy hunters that want to grab their bow that was sighted in 2 years ago and fire 1 test shot the day before opener. Those personalities won’t give enough time to figure something new out anyways.

I agree fully with the couple posts mentioning how good all this competition is for us saddle hunters. I remember when @kenn1320 changed my world with his 2 molle belt saddle. In fact, I’m pretty sure I still have it in the closet somewhere.
That was pre sit-drag when evos were hard to get and trophylines were impossible to find. Now, I have the choice of 6+ manufacturers and over a dozen individual saddles. If you had asked me 5 years ago, I would have been freakin ecstatic at the prospect of even 2 manufacturers.


................................................................................All climbing methods, platforms, saddle designs, and/or use of materials possibly mentioned in the post above are not peer reviewed for safety, and should only be used as an example of my own method. Do your own research and testing before becoming confident in any DIY solution to support your life.
-IkemanTx
 
JumpingVampire said:
So do we know how many leg attachment there are like the Mantis had 2 location?
Click to expand...
Yep just one. It's actually one of the features of the Phantom I liked the most but it hasn't been showcased just yet like some of the other features. Based on the geometry of the saddle it just makes sense where they are and it gets the leg straps out of the crotch area more which is something I have always disliked. Matter of fact I hated leg straps on a saddle until I tried the Phantom, but that's just me.
 
Personally I wish there was still the one on the waist. It is nice to hook them in there during the walk in At least that is what I do with the mantis. Low on the leg when walking catches on my pant legs and pulls downward.


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Squirrels said:
Yep just one. It's actually one of the features of the Phantom I liked the most but it hasn't been showcased just yet like some of the other features. Based on the geometry of the saddle it just makes sense where they are and it gets the leg straps out of the crotch area more which is something I have always disliked. Matter of fact I hated leg straps on a saddle until I tried the Phantom, but that's just me.
Click to expand...

I agree once in the tree and climbing but for walking i don’t like it.


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Should be able to hook the t-hook about anywhere. May be able to hook on the belt and achieve the same thing.
 
Haven’t used the phantom but low leg straps pull on my pant legs In the mantis for example. I used the lower hook up once climbing and in the tree but the waist for the walk in.


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Chrighton said:
Should be able to hook the t-hook about anywhere. May be able to hook on the belt and achieve the same thing.
Click to expand...

I would guess you could rig something up. It’s just nice to have a specific spot already there ready to hook to With little fuss


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