Will an expandable broadhead on a light arrow kill a deer? Yes.
Can you kill a deer at 50 yards with a bow? Yes.
Is a 7 pin sight useful? Sure.
Is the Ranch Fairy annoying? Yes.
Is Ashby god? Sometimes it seems that way.
Can everyone just shut up? I've learned the answer is no.
Ok, I'm sure I'll get the obligatory nonsense in the thread to follow. But if you're one of those guys who has a family, kids, a busy job, not a ton of money, not a ton of time, and just want to have a bow set up that will kill deer on the off chance you've gotten lucky on your choice of trees, you've come to the right place.
I'm not that guy. I'm single, no kids, and have free time/disposable income to screw around with this stuff. I enjoy it. It's a hobby I guess you could say. I've learned that there are lots of people who like to tinker like me- this information isn't for you. I'm well aware you're capable of overengineering the problem. You don't need to tell me, or anyone else. But you can, because Red made this awesome forum. For everyone else, who is confused by all the available information on building heavy or light arrows, listen up. I've created a 12 step program for you to cure what ails you.
First things first. The single biggest factor in not hitting a deer where you aim has nothing to do with your abilities or equipment. It's that deer move. They move before you shoot, as you shoot, after you shoot, and everywhere in between. They are capable of moving your point of aim over a foot in the time it takes you to decide to release your arrow. They like to live, and they don't have mortgages or jobs to distract them from being good at it. The point of giving you this ground truth, is that a certain level of precision is required, beyond which the returns are minimal. Put simply, your best odds of connecting with your target and killing it quickly, is not to shoot a whitetail deer past 30 yards. Yes, there are edge cases. Yes, there are things you could do to potentially extend that effective range. But if you know how to do that, and ARE doing it, you're not reading this post. Something like 90+% of deer are killed and recovered with a bow within 30 yards, and I suspect something like 90% of that is within 20 yards. Part of that is people not shooting past 30, and part is how low your odds of success become shooting beyond 30.
If you're willing to accept that, it brings me to my next point. Today's modern compound archery equipment is quite vast. You can get all sorts of gadgets and doodads to make ya feel cool. But if you're going to only shoot at deer within 30 yards, things become much simpler. You can use a single pin sight, aim where you want to hit the deer, and feel confident you'll hit within +-3" of where you're aiming. I won't go into the details here. But you can go to this link for more information on that concept.
https://saddlehunter.com/community/...n-sight-for-hunting-whitetails-yeh-you.21136/
Ok, so we will only shoot 30 yards, and we will shoot a single pin. Should we be shooting a 650 grain arrow? Well, there's some upside to doing so. But there's also some tradeoffs that may not be worth making. Namely time, money, and not being able to shoot a single pin out to 30 yards, and be precise enough. That's the weight arrow that will breach LARGE HEAVY BONE EVERY TIME. Two things - we're not shooting cape buffalo, and we're not shooting 175fps. I have long suspected the BREACH A WHITETAILS SHOULDER EVERY TIME weight is somewhere between 500-600grains. The time effort and money to get a 600+ grain arrow built, tuned, and sighted in to be able to shoot 30 yards with a compound bow becomes quite expansive. Don't believe me? Look at some of the threads on here of how exhausting it all is.
We want to be able to shoot a single pin, inside 30 yards. To do so, and hit within 3" of where we're aiming we need to shoot a minimum of 250fps. This should be doable for the vast majority of bowhunters. I'm not here to debate whether faster is better, or slower is ok. Again - lots of places to do that.
I should stop here, and make it clear. I am not a scientist. I have not done peer reviewed studies on this topic. But I have thought about it A LOT. And I'm making some assumptions based off of a lot of information that is available. And I am drawing on being witness to quite a few deer being killed with a bow. You don't have to believe what I say or think I'm right. This isn't the place for that argument. There's 75 threads active right now to debate that. But if you trust that I'm here to help, read on....
The below should take you no more than an hour to research, and will only have to be done once, and will cost you no more than 2.00 per arrow more than just buying your crap at Walmart. If you're patient, you can often buy used arrows on archery talk at an extreme discount. I don't care about brands. Here we go:
The twelve step program for normal people to have the best odds at killing deer they shoot at...
Step One: Identify draw length, draw weight, IBO of bow. Go to this calculator and enter your information. https://archerycalculator.com/estimate-bow-speed/ Come up with the heaviest arrow that shoots AT LEAST 250fps. Note this weight. ________
Step Two: Determine the shortest arrow length you can shoot safely with your bow. Length- ________
Go to this spine chart, and determine the spine recommended for 100gr point weight(that’s what the chart references). https://www.blackeaglearrows.com/arrowsizingchart-a/254.htm Whatever spine that chart recommends for your arrow length, note the NEXT STIFFEST SPINE - ________
Step Three: Decide which arrows you want. Buy them in the spine determined in step two. Cut them to the length found in step 2.
Step Four: Go to www.ethicsarchery.com and purchase 100 grain SS halfout inserts for your specific arrow.
Step Five: Determine the weight of the arrow shaft, insert, nock, fletching, and wrap if applicable. Weight - _______
Step Six: Weight from Step One ______ minus weight from Step Five ______ = _________
Step Seven: Purchase whatever cut on contact fixed blade broadhead you like, in the weight that most closely matches the weight found in step six.
Step Eight: Build the arrows. 2024 update: I always cut my arrows as short as possible. I square both ends. Even with the possibility of being slightly overspined, with a tuned bow and square arrows, I rarely have to “nock tune”.
Step Nine: Make sure your bow is tuned properly.
Step Ten: Shoot at 30 yards with broadheads to ensure they group with field points. If they don’t, your bow isn’t in tune, or your form sucks. The difference in FP’s and BH’s at 30 yards should be negligible even with an out of tune bow or bad form. So if you get anything beyond an inch or two difference in any direction, your tune and form really suck. Straighten that out before going further. Once tune/form is good enough, you don’t need to shoot broadheads anymore. Buy new blades or sharpen the ones you shot.
Step Eleven: Get in a tree, and range a 30 yard circle of death around you. Do this with your excellent woodsman skills, or a rangefinder. My opinion is if you can’t guess 30 yards within a yard or two without electronics, maybe find a different hobby besides bowhunting.
Step Twelve: If a deer comes within that 30 yard circle, aim where your arrow will intersect just behind and above the heart. Shoot the deer with full confidence that you’ve optimized all equipment, strategy, and minimized most downsides. Enjoy your venison.
Yes, I know there are short draw/low draw people who may not be able to get a 500+ grain arrow to go 250fps. My advice to them is to decrease their effective range to 25, or even 20 yards.
Yes, you can increase/decrease weight and increase/decrease speed, and that will come with certain obvious advantages. Just remember, minimum 250fps, minimum 500grains. If you decide to go beyond 600 grains, you'll be spending a lot of time getting the setup dialed in. Hence this write up.
Yes, I know there are long draw/heavy draw people who can shoot a 600grain arrow with a flat enough trajectory to shoot 35 or 40 yards with a single pin. I'm one of them. My advice to them is not to shoot past 30, because the variables that impact accuracy at that distance have nothing to do with their skills/equipment.
If you follow the above, you'll knock down every excuse the light arrow flingin', naysayers will give you. The time/money to do this is no different than a light arrow. Setup time is minimal. Research is already done for ya. I promise you'll like the results. If you don't, I offer a money back guarantee...
Let me know if this helps you out!
Can you kill a deer at 50 yards with a bow? Yes.
Is a 7 pin sight useful? Sure.
Is the Ranch Fairy annoying? Yes.
Is Ashby god? Sometimes it seems that way.
Can everyone just shut up? I've learned the answer is no.
Ok, I'm sure I'll get the obligatory nonsense in the thread to follow. But if you're one of those guys who has a family, kids, a busy job, not a ton of money, not a ton of time, and just want to have a bow set up that will kill deer on the off chance you've gotten lucky on your choice of trees, you've come to the right place.
I'm not that guy. I'm single, no kids, and have free time/disposable income to screw around with this stuff. I enjoy it. It's a hobby I guess you could say. I've learned that there are lots of people who like to tinker like me- this information isn't for you. I'm well aware you're capable of overengineering the problem. You don't need to tell me, or anyone else. But you can, because Red made this awesome forum. For everyone else, who is confused by all the available information on building heavy or light arrows, listen up. I've created a 12 step program for you to cure what ails you.
First things first. The single biggest factor in not hitting a deer where you aim has nothing to do with your abilities or equipment. It's that deer move. They move before you shoot, as you shoot, after you shoot, and everywhere in between. They are capable of moving your point of aim over a foot in the time it takes you to decide to release your arrow. They like to live, and they don't have mortgages or jobs to distract them from being good at it. The point of giving you this ground truth, is that a certain level of precision is required, beyond which the returns are minimal. Put simply, your best odds of connecting with your target and killing it quickly, is not to shoot a whitetail deer past 30 yards. Yes, there are edge cases. Yes, there are things you could do to potentially extend that effective range. But if you know how to do that, and ARE doing it, you're not reading this post. Something like 90+% of deer are killed and recovered with a bow within 30 yards, and I suspect something like 90% of that is within 20 yards. Part of that is people not shooting past 30, and part is how low your odds of success become shooting beyond 30.
If you're willing to accept that, it brings me to my next point. Today's modern compound archery equipment is quite vast. You can get all sorts of gadgets and doodads to make ya feel cool. But if you're going to only shoot at deer within 30 yards, things become much simpler. You can use a single pin sight, aim where you want to hit the deer, and feel confident you'll hit within +-3" of where you're aiming. I won't go into the details here. But you can go to this link for more information on that concept.
https://saddlehunter.com/community/...n-sight-for-hunting-whitetails-yeh-you.21136/
How can I shoot deer accurately with only one fixed pin in my sight?!
This topic has come up a lot lately, so I figured I'd touch on a little more information. It has been covered many times, and I take zero credit for this concept. NOTE - if your bow shoots slower than 250fps, or you intend on shooting critters past 35 yards or so, you may want to consider...
saddlehunter.com
Ok, so we will only shoot 30 yards, and we will shoot a single pin. Should we be shooting a 650 grain arrow? Well, there's some upside to doing so. But there's also some tradeoffs that may not be worth making. Namely time, money, and not being able to shoot a single pin out to 30 yards, and be precise enough. That's the weight arrow that will breach LARGE HEAVY BONE EVERY TIME. Two things - we're not shooting cape buffalo, and we're not shooting 175fps. I have long suspected the BREACH A WHITETAILS SHOULDER EVERY TIME weight is somewhere between 500-600grains. The time effort and money to get a 600+ grain arrow built, tuned, and sighted in to be able to shoot 30 yards with a compound bow becomes quite expansive. Don't believe me? Look at some of the threads on here of how exhausting it all is.
We want to be able to shoot a single pin, inside 30 yards. To do so, and hit within 3" of where we're aiming we need to shoot a minimum of 250fps. This should be doable for the vast majority of bowhunters. I'm not here to debate whether faster is better, or slower is ok. Again - lots of places to do that.
I should stop here, and make it clear. I am not a scientist. I have not done peer reviewed studies on this topic. But I have thought about it A LOT. And I'm making some assumptions based off of a lot of information that is available. And I am drawing on being witness to quite a few deer being killed with a bow. You don't have to believe what I say or think I'm right. This isn't the place for that argument. There's 75 threads active right now to debate that. But if you trust that I'm here to help, read on....
The below should take you no more than an hour to research, and will only have to be done once, and will cost you no more than 2.00 per arrow more than just buying your crap at Walmart. If you're patient, you can often buy used arrows on archery talk at an extreme discount. I don't care about brands. Here we go:
The twelve step program for normal people to have the best odds at killing deer they shoot at...
Step One: Identify draw length, draw weight, IBO of bow. Go to this calculator and enter your information. https://archerycalculator.com/estimate-bow-speed/ Come up with the heaviest arrow that shoots AT LEAST 250fps. Note this weight. ________
Step Two: Determine the shortest arrow length you can shoot safely with your bow. Length- ________
Go to this spine chart, and determine the spine recommended for 100gr point weight(that’s what the chart references). https://www.blackeaglearrows.com/arrowsizingchart-a/254.htm Whatever spine that chart recommends for your arrow length, note the NEXT STIFFEST SPINE - ________
Step Three: Decide which arrows you want. Buy them in the spine determined in step two. Cut them to the length found in step 2.
Step Four: Go to www.ethicsarchery.com and purchase 100 grain SS halfout inserts for your specific arrow.
Step Five: Determine the weight of the arrow shaft, insert, nock, fletching, and wrap if applicable. Weight - _______
Step Six: Weight from Step One ______ minus weight from Step Five ______ = _________
Step Seven: Purchase whatever cut on contact fixed blade broadhead you like, in the weight that most closely matches the weight found in step six.
Step Eight: Build the arrows. 2024 update: I always cut my arrows as short as possible. I square both ends. Even with the possibility of being slightly overspined, with a tuned bow and square arrows, I rarely have to “nock tune”.
Step Nine: Make sure your bow is tuned properly.
Step Ten: Shoot at 30 yards with broadheads to ensure they group with field points. If they don’t, your bow isn’t in tune, or your form sucks. The difference in FP’s and BH’s at 30 yards should be negligible even with an out of tune bow or bad form. So if you get anything beyond an inch or two difference in any direction, your tune and form really suck. Straighten that out before going further. Once tune/form is good enough, you don’t need to shoot broadheads anymore. Buy new blades or sharpen the ones you shot.
Step Eleven: Get in a tree, and range a 30 yard circle of death around you. Do this with your excellent woodsman skills, or a rangefinder. My opinion is if you can’t guess 30 yards within a yard or two without electronics, maybe find a different hobby besides bowhunting.
Step Twelve: If a deer comes within that 30 yard circle, aim where your arrow will intersect just behind and above the heart. Shoot the deer with full confidence that you’ve optimized all equipment, strategy, and minimized most downsides. Enjoy your venison.
Yes, I know there are short draw/low draw people who may not be able to get a 500+ grain arrow to go 250fps. My advice to them is to decrease their effective range to 25, or even 20 yards.
Yes, you can increase/decrease weight and increase/decrease speed, and that will come with certain obvious advantages. Just remember, minimum 250fps, minimum 500grains. If you decide to go beyond 600 grains, you'll be spending a lot of time getting the setup dialed in. Hence this write up.
Yes, I know there are long draw/heavy draw people who can shoot a 600grain arrow with a flat enough trajectory to shoot 35 or 40 yards with a single pin. I'm one of them. My advice to them is not to shoot past 30, because the variables that impact accuracy at that distance have nothing to do with their skills/equipment.
If you follow the above, you'll knock down every excuse the light arrow flingin', naysayers will give you. The time/money to do this is no different than a light arrow. Setup time is minimal. Research is already done for ya. I promise you'll like the results. If you don't, I offer a money back guarantee...
Let me know if this helps you out!
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