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The everyman's guide to killing a deer with a compound bow...

Good post. I haven’t built my arrows yet. I’ll use your formula to see what it suggests for my setup.


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In step 5, what is an SS Half Out Insert?
A search on Ethics Archery site yielded no results.


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Wow. 650 grains will still give me 248 FPS.


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PJC said:
In step 5, what is an SS Half Out Insert?
A search on Ethics Archery site yielded no results.


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Stainless steel outsert,as opposed to insert. Outserts are for thin diameter arrows i believe.
 
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Bowmanmike said:
Stainless steel outsert,as opposed to insert. Outserts are for thin diameter arrows i believe.
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They are inserts that have weight on them usually up to like 70-90 grains I believe. There are various brands and they make them for regular diameter shafts as well. They also come in brass.
 
@kyler1945 great post. I like this post because it reads to me like the old adage: keep it simple stupid. Yeah, get things tuned up, your arrows, bow, etc. Personally, I am shooting a recurve so the arrow means a little more to me than the bow tuning, but that's just me. All the RF stuff and arrow stuff comes at a time when folks are ripe for the listening - most seasons start in a month or two and if they are anything like this new hunter, they are chomping at the bit to get out there. And... sometimes that translates into spending money on "sure things!"I remember when I was personally training a few just short of high level athletes that though, "these wrist straps, these shorts, this chalk, etc will take me to the next level" at the end of the day, it's the user.

@Weldabeast I feel you about the jitters. This coming season will be my second season, not second saddle season, second ever hunting season at 46 years old. Last season I was able to take 3 does with my bow, but I had several chances at mature bucks and "da fever" got the best of me on at least 2. The first was on some private land a buddy had; this buck was chasing these does everywhere. I had never seen deer move like that - they were so loud and out of control. I just missed a 25 yard shot because, which I blamed on having to switch hands to shoot, but in reality it was my nerves. Then on some public ground, I was sitting on the ground about 150 yards behind the parking lot for a simple "quick sit in the woods." I had seen a bunch of doe sign here and this particular parcel is archery only, either sex, all season. About 10 am, I hear something coming from my weak side. I see a very large 8 point, He is meandering down to me and I am getting pumped. Then over the ridge about 12-15 yards behind him appears a rack that was of epic proportion. In the 20 minutes it took them to meander toward me I counted 16 points on that second buck. As they approached, I was on the ground and they did not seem to look away at all, I was waiting for a chance to move. I remember feeling like I was seeing stars, blushing, and I clearly remember my ears tingling and ringing! I was as close to a panic attack as my biology would allow. I probably was moving a little and they deer ended up making me at about 12 yards and slowly moving the other direction.

I absolutely think that @Nutterbuster is correct in treating the fever, but like you I do not have opportunities to get on a lot of deer. What I have been doing in the off season is a lot scouting and observation sits for my primary target - black bear. The bear move a lot in spring and so you can get on them easily around here. Being in proximity to the animal and thoroughly visualizing it as a hunt I am hoping will help me this coming season. There are also meditation exercises (not kidding) that my SEAL buddies have taught me. I think it's just going to take time.

Good luck out there.
 
kyler1945 said:
Will an expandable broadhead on a light arrow kill a deer? Yes.

Can you kill a deer at 50 yards with a bow? Yes.

Is a 7 pin sight useful? Sure.

Is the Ranch Fairy annoying? Yes.

Is Ashby god? Sometimes it seems that way.

Can everyone just shut up? I've learned the answer is no.


Ok, I'm sure I'll get the obligatory nonsense in the thread to follow. But if you're one of those guys who has a family, kids, a busy job, not a ton of money, not a ton of time, and just want to have a bow set up that will kill deer on the off chance you've gotten lucky on your choice of trees, you've come to the right place.

I'm not that guy. I'm single, no kids, and have free time/disposable income to screw around with this stuff. I enjoy it. It's a hobby I guess you could say. I've learned that there are lots of people who like to tinker like me- this information isn't for you. I'm well aware you're capable of overengineering the problem. You don't need to tell me, or anyone else. But you can, because Red made this awesome forum. For everyone else, who is confused by all the available information on building heavy or light arrows, listen up. I've created a 12 step program for you to cure what ails you.

First things first. The single biggest factor in not hitting a deer where you aim has nothing to do with your abilities or equipment. It's that deer move. They move before you shoot, as you shoot, after you shoot, and everywhere in between. They are capable of moving your point of aim over a foot in the time it takes you to decide to release your arrow. They like to live, and they don't have mortgages or jobs to distract them from being good at it. The point of giving you this ground truth, is that a certain level of precision is required, beyond which the returns are minimal. Put simply, your best odds of connecting with your target and killing it quickly, is not to shoot a whitetail deer past 30 yards. Yes, there are edge cases. Yes, there are things you could do to potentially extend that effective range. But if you know how to do that, and ARE doing it, you're not reading this post. Something like 90+% of deer are killed and recovered with a bow within 30 yards, and I suspect something like 90% of that is within 20 yards. Part of that is people not shooting past 30, and part is how low your odds of success become shooting beyond 30.

If you're willing to accept that, it brings me to my next point. Today's modern compound archery equipment is quite vast. You can get all sorts of gadgets and doodads to make ya feel cool. But if you're going to only shoot at deer within 30 yards, things become much simpler. You can use a single pin sight, aim where you want to hit the deer, and feel confident you'll hit within +-3" of where you're aiming. I won't go into the details here. But you can go to this link for more information on that concept.

https://saddlehunter.com/community/...n-sight-for-hunting-whitetails-yeh-you.21136/

How can I shoot deer accurately with only one fixed pin in my sight?!

This topic has come up a lot lately, so I figured I'd touch on a little more information. It has been covered many times, and I take zero credit for this concept. NOTE - if your bow shoots slower than 250fps, or you intend on shooting critters past 35 yards or so, you may want to consider...
saddlehunter.com

Ok, so we will only shoot 30 yards, and we will shoot a single pin. Should we be shooting a 650 grain arrow? Well, there's some upside to doing so. But there's also some tradeoffs that may not be worth making. Namely time, money, and not being able to shoot a single pin out to 30 yards, and be precise enough. That's the weight arrow that will breach LARGE HEAVY BONE EVERY TIME. Two things - we're not shooting cape buffalo, and we're not shooting 175fps. I have long suspected the BREACH A WHITETAILS SHOULDER EVERY TIME weight is somewhere between 500-600grains. The time effort and money to get a 600+ grain arrow built, tuned, and sighted in to be able to shoot 30 yards with a compound bow becomes quite expansive. Don't believe me? Look at some of the threads on here of how exhausting it all is.

We want to be able to shoot a single pin, inside 30 yards. To do so, and hit within 3" of where we're aiming we need to shoot a minimum of 250fps. This should be doable for the vast majority of bowhunters. I'm not here to debate whether faster is better, or slower is ok. Again - lots of places to do that.

I should stop here, and make it clear. I am not a scientist. I have not done peer reviewed studies on this topic. But I have thought about it A LOT. And I'm making some assumptions based off of a lot of information that is available. And I am drawing on being witness to quite a few deer being killed with a bow. You don't have to believe what I say or think I'm right. This isn't the place for that argument. There's 75 threads active right now to debate that. But if you trust that I'm here to help, read on....


The below should take you no more than an hour to research, and will only have to be done once, and will cost you no more than 2.00 per arrow more than just buying your crap at Walmart. If you're patient, you can often buy used arrows on archery talk at an extreme discount. I don't care about brands. Here we go:

The twelve step program for normal people to have the best odds at killing deer they shoot at...

Step One: Identify draw length, draw weight, IBO of bow. Go to this calculator and enter your information. https://archerycalculator.com/estimate-bow-speed/ Come up with the heaviest arrow that shoots AT LEAST 250fps. Note this weight. ________

Step Two: Determine the shortest arrow length you can shoot safely with your bow. Length- ________

Go to this spine chart, and determine the spine recommended for 100gr point weight(that’s what the chart references). https://www.blackeaglearrows.com/arrowsizingchart-a/254.htm Whatever spine that chart recommends for your arrow length, note the NEXT STIFFEST SPINE - ________

Step Three: Decide which arrows you want. Buy them in the spine determined in step two. Cut them to the length found in step 2.

Step Four: Go to www.ethicsarchery.com and purchase 100 grain SS halfout inserts for your specific arrow.

Step Five: Determine the weight of the arrow shaft, insert, nock, fletching, and wrap if applicable. Weight - _______

Step Six: Weight from Step One ______ minus weight from Step Five ______ = _________

Step Seven: Purchase whatever cut on contact fixed blade broadhead you like, in the weight that most closely matches the weight found in step six.

Step Eight: Build the arrows.

Step Nine: Make sure your bow is tuned properly.

Step Ten: Shoot at 30 yards with broadheads to ensure they group with field points. If they don’t, your bow isn’t in tune, or your form sucks. The difference in FP’s and BH’s at 30 yards should be negligible even with an out of tune bow or bad form. So if you get anything beyond an inch or two difference in any direction, your tune and form really suck. Straighten that out before going further. Once tune/form is good enough, you don’t need to shoot broadheads anymore. Buy new blades or sharpen the ones you shot.

Step Eleven: Get in a tree, and range a 30 yard circle of death around you. Do this with your excellent woodsman skills, or a rangefinder. My opinion is if you can’t guess 30 yards within a yard or two without electronics, maybe find a different hobby besides bowhunting.

Step Twelve: If a deer comes within that 30 yard circle, aim where your arrow will intersect just behind and above the heart. Shoot the deer with full confidence that you’ve optimized all equipment, strategy, and minimized most downsides. Enjoy your venison.


Yes, I know there are short draw/low draw people who may not be able to get a 500+ grain arrow to go 250fps. My advice to them is to decrease their effective range to 25, or even 20 yards.

Yes, you can increase/decrease weight and increase/decrease speed, and that will come with certain obvious advantages. Just remember, minimum 250fps, minimum 500grains. If you decide to go beyond 600 grains, you'll be spending a lot of time getting the setup dialed in. Hence this write up.

Yes, I know there are long draw/heavy draw people who can shoot a 600grain arrow with a flat enough trajectory to shoot 35 or 40 yards with a single pin. I'm one of them. My advice to them is not to shoot past 30, because the variables that impact accuracy at that distance have nothing to do with their skills/equipment.

If you follow the above, you'll knock down every excuse the light arrow flingin', naysayers will give you. The time/money to do this is no different than a light arrow. Setup time is minimal. Research is already done for ya. I promise you'll like the results. If you don't, I offer a money back guarantee...

Let me know if this helps you out!
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Hell of a write up! Just sent the link to a friend of mine that is BRAND NEW to bow hunting and reads a dangerous amount. He is convinced from The Hunting Public / Ranch Fairy's latest video that he NEEDS to shoot 550-650gr setups. I'm around high 400s ( I think like 475gr) and still have devastating results with optimum accuracy.
 
@Weldabeast some people gain confidence by shooting 3D targets also. Try hitting a 3D course. It is at least a fun time shooting in a different place at different targets than you are used to.

Other than that just do like @Nutterbuster says and just keep shooting critters. You’ll come to realize that you can get away with more than you think. Deer aren’t going to hear your heart beating. They are likely going to hang around long enough for a good shot. All you really have to worry about is making the shot. Also keep shooting does and small bucks so when me big finally shows up you’ll have enough experience and confidence to keep it together enough to make the shot.
 
To my knowledge there isnt a 3d range in town that's open to the public....there is a private 1 u can join but require some obligation that I'm not to confident I could fill....It will just boil down to having more experience.....I'm enjoying learning the in and outs of hunting but it would sure been nice to have a mentor....this forum has helped with some of that to an extent and I'm thankful 4 that
 
MathewsMan7 said:
This may sound weird, but something that helped me get over that (I still get overly excited) as far as a mind trick goes is I picture the buck mouthing my momma and it takes me from school girl giddy to some semblance of keeping it together because now I HAVE to get the job done...nobody mouths my momma
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Man I thought that said "mounting" at first... lol
 
Nutterbuster said:
I wish I could tell you a mind trick that would make it go away, but I don't know one. Sometimes it still creeps up on me.

Hunting amps you up in a way I imagine nothing but fighting or trying to avoid dying does. You body is "helpfully" preparing you for a burst of energy to rush down your prey and cause it great bodily harm. It hasn't quite caught up to the fact that we don't do things that way any more.

The more you do something, the more of a tolerance you build for it. Caffeine, alcohol, meth, adrenaline, dopamine...whatever. The best way to build a tolerance for killing is more killing. Sounds super PC, I know. Doesn't necessarily have to be deer. I shoot squirrels, rabbits, ducks, hogs, armored dildos...whatever is legal.
Click to expand...

Soo.... we’re just all gonna pretend we didn’t see this armored dildo comment?
 
For me, consciously working through my entire shot process from grip, draw, THROUGH the release and to follow through helps me keep my poop together and gives me a plan through the entire shot.

Target panic lies in the spaces where your shot process falls apart and your brain goes into autopilot to brace for the "explosion" of the bow going off in your face. Your brain doesn't care about making the shot, it only wants to make the "explosion" go away as quickly as possible and that is rarely conducive to making a good shot.

But most importantly I shoot 565gr arrows... anything less will bounce off a deer. :tearsofjoy:
 
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I have not had buck fever yet because i have not had a big one in bow range. This will be my fifth bow season and i killed about 4 does and one forkhorn. I do get pretty riled up when a deer gets into range but have managed to keep it together so far. I do better when i have a lot of time as opposed to a rushed affair.
I second the suggestion that you have to practice killing deer with the bow to become more calm about it. I will be looking for more does this October so i am ready when i get on a big buck,which will happen this year.
As far as arrows i am keeping that in the suggested range,570 grains at a tad under 250 fps. One pin out to 30,after that i would have to adjust the sight for the exact distance.
I dont see myself shooting further than 30 realistically,too much can happen.
I also think a techno shoot is a great tool to practice shot timing,much more than going to a 3d shoot. That is good to get used to aim points.
 
Nutterbuster said:
I wish I could tell you a mind trick that would make it go away, but I don't know one. Sometimes it still creeps up on me.

Hunting amps you up in a way I imagine nothing but fighting or trying to avoid dying does. You body is "helpfully" preparing you for a burst of energy to rush down your prey and cause it great bodily harm. It hasn't quite caught up to the fact that we don't do things that way any more.

The more you do something, the more of a tolerance you build for it. Caffeine, alcohol, meth, adrenaline, dopamine...whatever. The best way to build a tolerance for killing is more killing. Sounds super PC, I know. Doesn't necessarily have to be deer. I shoot squirrels, rabbits, ducks, hogs, armored dildos...whatever is legal.
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Agree exactly! But I don't think I want to loose all the adrenaline rush.....its why I love hunting so much. After 40 years of archery I do control it better......well at least I think I do. LOL
 
BigAl said:
Agree exactly! But I don't think I want to loose all the adrenaline rush.....its why I love hunting so much. After 40 years of archery I do control it better......well at least I think I do. LOL
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I fell completely apart last year shooting a buck with a rifle at 50 yards. Shot him the first time and was cool as a cucumber. Pulled the trigger...click.

I almost lost my sanity. It was so bad that I chambered a round pulled the trigger, and smooth missed him. Then I was so mad at myself that I dusted him as he "hid" in a thicket he dashed into. Talk about a whirlwind.
 
Weldabeast said:
I hear u and totally agree....cant gain anything without experience....small game is fun but dont get me charged up like whitetail and hogs. Maybe after I tag out this season I'll be over the shakes.... :cool:

Yeah right...who I kidding. I not very good at hunting yet or I got really bad luck or probably combination of the 2.
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I don't ever want to not feel the rush, that's why I bow hunt. I've killed animals with a gun and for me it's not that exciting. Sure you have to "make the shot", but I prefer up close and personal. When I first started bow hunting I imposed a 20 yd limit on myself just to keep the game more intimate. I am a strong proponent of 20 yd and under.
I watch hunting videos like football players watch film. I want to see impacts, angles, reactions. I want to watch deer coming in before a shot. I watch their body language. When I practice, I run scenarios, and I visualize the shots. I try to shoot beyond the limits of good form to push my practice to as realistic as possible as far as mental and physical performance. I can't get 100 deer a year in front of me each year, but what I can do is ingrain my practice habits, and manage my body and mind, through the rush. Like Nutter said it's like a cat pouncing on a mouse it's instinctive... embrace it. Be ready to shoot and don't release that arrow until you feel "ready", that means full draw, on target( think, aim small miss small), in focus with all the control you can muster. I always tell myself, " I decide when to shoot. I set the pace when a deer comes in, not him. I used to let them dictate the pace. I would react to their presence and let them decide things for me. Oh he's moving through my lane and I have to rush to get this shot off or I'll miss my chance to shoot and I won't make this kill , so I can feel good about myself, and bring meat home to my family, and have a nice deer to show my friends, and bragging rights on saddlehunter, We can't cave to that stuff. Don't wish away the rush, learn to be a finisher despite it.
 
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