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The JRB Climbing Method

Thanks for the replies. With YOUR questions, i better understand the issues you and future climbers may have and so i consider us one team here, as we iron out the details. Some points:

1. Your friction hitches have NO IDEA whats under them. What i am saying is that if i weigh 185 and am able to break a single meech with half my weight on it, with my ropes, and my finger strength, that doesn't mean that you will necessarily be able to do the same due to all the variables mentioned. We can and should expect variables.

2. I do NOT recommend rappelling ON your hitches, meaning that they are providing the resistance like a blakes hitch MRS climber does. I want you to have a munter or Figure 8 or other friction device and your hitches are simply along for the ride on the rappel.

3. Break them one at a time. When ready to rappel, friction device in place, break one hitch.... and you will move a couple inches while the system settles and gets tension on your rappel device. Once ya broke the first hitch, make sure its adequately LOOSE on the line. Wiggle it as ya need to with one hand to get it loose enough to slide easily. THEN reach up and break the OTHER friction hitch and get it loose. Then ya can start to rappel. The tending of those hitches should be effortless. Otherwise you still have em too tight. Ya even might want them slightly different heights on the way down so they are not squashed together.

4. A double Michoacán, (double, not 2 ... look for my video on the Double Michoacán) on each side is going to be EASIER to break than a single meech on each side. Ya need more cord to make it but it breaks easier.

5. All of this breaking gets more difficult on small cords on small ropes... for example 7mm Sterling hitch cord on 8mm rope WORKS and is easier to break than 5mm hitch cord on the same rope.

6. There's no crime in having a backup plan to break a hitch that's stuck. I have hunted in rain, turns to snow, and had friction hitches literally FROZEN on the rope... some breaker devices include... and see photos:
1. A PVC device, which could be permanently on the one side of your rope.
2. A Boat clip which may already be on your line for rigging...
3. Brand new idea: a golf divot repair tool in your saddle bag.

Lastly... i am beyond stoked to be about ready to publicize a new friction hitch... it's gonna make so many things easier. Including breaking. Its easier than a single meech, maybe a little harder than a double. This may be the most creative and useful thing i have done yet.
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[mention]LoadedLimbs [/mention] I agree that you should do what YOU are comfortable with. I know that when I climb JRB, there is never any slack in my system, so I’m good.
 
Another technique for partially unloading your friction hitches so they are easier to break is to use your leg to put some weight on the rope, unloading that amount from the hitches. I don't have a video specifically for the jrb method. But if you start watching this video about Midway through, I do demonstrate how it works for MRS. We can do the same thing on a jrb system.

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Hi John,

Thanks for sharing your method. I've been watching for some time, and think it's a good solution for an area I hunt where most trees I prefer to hunt are about too big to manage with many popular methods. I'm not changing up this season, but will get some off season time with JRB method.

In the meantime, do you by chance plan on sharing your saddle seat, or describing it. How does it benefit you over your saddle in hunting scenarios?

Thanks.
So regarding my saddle/seat, it can best be described as a bosun chair, but not a JX3 like contraption. Of course, i never heard of a bosun chair when i devised it, and was already on my 6th prototype. The reasons i have not shared it are simply due to other priorities. Everyone already has multiple safe saddle options just not as comfortable... but they are not on safe climbing methods and so that seems more important: make us safer, over more comfortable. The other dimension is the testing... i haven't done drop testing on my saddle and not sure i have the means... i do have some ideas for making any saddle more comfortable though and that will be a priority for prototype work in off season, after hunting season this year....

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@mtsrunner - thank you very much for your reply. I almost misunderstood your preference. When I read it fast, I thought you were saying you prefer Sterling 6mm TRC cord ... but you said "Sterling 6mm accessory cord".

I looked up the specs for Sterling 6mm accessory cord on the Eastern Woods Outdoors website. I saw what it says about the cord having minimum breaking strength of 8.8kN (1978 lbs) and being intended for "non-life-safety applications".

Not questioning your decision, just processing it - here are my thoughts...

Under ordinary climbing conditions using the JRB climbing system, the tension in the hitch cord in the Michoacán friction hitches is 1/4th of the sum of (the climber's weight + the gear that they haul up the tree). This is the case whether you're using single-Michoacán or double-Michoacán hitches, because the doubles don't have independent loops for carabiner clip-in ... the doubles are made with a single piece of hitch cord. So what is the factor of safety if using the Sterling 6mm accessory cord for your hitches? Answer: It's (1978 lbs)/(0.25 x [climbers weight + gear]). So for me, 200 lbs in hunting clothes, boots, saddle + another 15 lbs for my gear-loaded pack, platform, & weapon, the factor of safety = 1978 / (0.25 x 215) = 36.8

That's a very healthy factor of safety against the normal loads the hitch cord will see. But we're worried about abnormal loads, not just normal ones. As long as the hunter doesn't step up onto a branch, ROS, or platform in a way that puts slack in their friction hitches & primary bridge, the system should not ever experience failure-inducing loads from a slip/fall. I would, however, still keep my footloop Garda hitch in place at the top of my climb and keep my "best friend" loop connected to my redundant bridge. I chose a 23kN-rated nylon climbing sling for my "best friend" loop and for my redundant bridge, and I recommend that everyone trying this system ensure that their redundant system has similar strength.

Between the high factor of safety, informed and careful hunting practices at height, and the higher strength of the redundant bridge and "best friend" loop, I wouldn't have any concern about using the Sterling 6mm accessory cord either, and I will give it a try myself once I get my hands on some of it. Unless I find a marked difference vs. TRC or Ocean Vectran, however, I'll stick with the stronger stuff.
Well written post buddy. And thanks for your support and comments. The only part i disagree with is that i believe the safety factor on the double Michoacán is about double the single: a pair of the singles is as you described with 25% of our weight on a strand. But with a pair of double Michoacáns, there are a total of four Loops creating eight strands on our Bridge beaner. And so that is 1/8 of our weight on each strand. In both cases, the weak spot is the bend, and if we crudely assume that the hunters band is only 50% efficient, that does become the weak spot, but as you say, will never generate that kind of force in a non slack system. But the double (I believe) is always twice as strong as the single.

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Well written post buddy. And thanks for your support and comments. The only part i disagree with is that i believe the safety factor on the double Michoacán is about double the single: a pair of the singles is as you described with 25% of our weight on a strand. But with a pair of double Michoacáns, there are a total of four Loops creating eight strands on our Bridge beaner. And so that is 1/8 of our weight on each strand.
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@John RB - This post was an "Ahah!" moment for me. In my haste to tie the double-Michoacán hitches, I did't pay close attention to the fact that you form a second, load-bearing loop containing the hunters bend. In my case, I did it wrong! I made the hunters bend correctly, but I made its loop length much shorter, and I was only clipping my carabiner into the longer loop that does not contain the hunters bend. I'm sure that's why I had 8" tails coming out of my hunters bend knots - and that also explains why my experience breaking the friction hitches was so different than yours in your videos.

My incorrect carabiner clip-in was, in-fact, putting 25% of my weight on each leg of the (single) loaded loop. Totally my fault for not paying closer attention, because upon review of your video tonight, the content is very clear about how to tie the double-Michoacán AND how to load it.

I completely agree that when I form two equal load-bearing loops in each double-Michoacán, there are four legs, and when I clip into the pair of double-Michoacán's, there are eight legs sharing the load coming through the carabiner, so 1/8 of our weight is on each leg for a properly-configured JRB climbing system using two double Michoacán friction hitches. Thus, the factor of safety in the example I put in post #199 of this thread is incorrect. It should be = 73.6, not 36.8. Thanks for setting the record straight - it led me to have another look, and in the course of that I determined that I made a mistake in forming, and loading the hitches.

I'll be doing low-level test climbing again tomorrow evening with properly configured and properly clipped-in double-Michoacán hitches!
 
@John RB - This post was an "Ahah!" moment for me. In my haste to tie the double-Michoacán hitches, I did't pay close attention to the fact that you form a second, load-bearing loop containing the hunters bend. In my case, I did it wrong! I made the hunters bend correctly, but I made its loop length much shorter, and I was only clipping my carabiner into the longer loop that does not contain the hunters bend. I'm sure that's why I had 8" tails coming out of my hunters bend knots - and that also explains why my experience breaking the friction hitches was so different than yours in your videos.

My incorrect carabiner clip-in was, in-fact, putting 25% of my weight on each leg of the (single) loaded loop. Totally my fault for not paying closer attention, because upon review of your video tonight, the content is very clear about how to tie the double-Michoacán AND how to load it.

I completely agree that when I form two equal load-bearing loops in each double-Michoacán, there are four legs, and when I clip into the pair of double-Michoacán's, there are eight legs sharing the load coming through the carabiner, so 1/8 of our weight is on each leg for a properly-configured JRB climbing system using two double Michoacán friction hitches. Thus, the factor of safety in the example I put in post #199 of this thread is incorrect. It should be = 73.6, not 36.8. Thanks for setting the record straight - it led me to have another look, and in the course of that I determined that I made a mistake in forming, and loading the hitches.

I'll be doing low-level test climbing again tomorrow evening with properly configured and properly clipped-in double-Michoacán hitches!
And the weak spot becomes the bend itself. Effectively, if we assume that the hunters band is only 50% efficient, everything gets cut in half... because the numbers we were using above assume that every inch of our rope device is of equal strength, when in fact, the bend is the weak point. I plan on doing some more formal testing of the hunters Bend when I get some test equipment. It's very surprising to me that this kind of information is not more readily available on the web.

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And the weak spot becomes the bend itself. Effectively, if we assume that the hunters band is only 50% efficient, everything gets cut in half... because the numbers we were using above assume that every inch of our rope device is of equal strength, when in fact, the bend is the weak point. I plan on doing some more formal testing of the hunters Bend when I get some test equipment. It's very surprising to me that this kind of information is not more readily available on the web.

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Yes - so if the hunters bend is only 50% efficient, the factor of safety in my example drops back down to 36.8 because of the lower strength of the hunters bend. I share your sentiment about the difficulty finding information on the strength of knots online. For some knots, you can find multiple sources citing data from strength test results. For a lot of knots, however, you can try a multitude of search criteria and still fail to find any data (or even estimates) of strength reduction.
 
@John RB - This post was an "Ahah!" moment for me. In my haste to tie the double-Michoacán hitches, I did't pay close attention to the fact that you form a second, load-bearing loop containing the hunters bend. In my case, I did it wrong! I made the hunters bend correctly, but I made its loop length much shorter, and I was only clipping my carabiner into the longer loop that does not contain the hunters bend. I'm sure that's why I had 8" tails coming out of my hunters bend knots - and that also explains why my experience breaking the friction hitches was so different than yours in your videos.

My incorrect carabiner clip-in was, in-fact, putting 25% of my weight on each leg of the (single) loaded loop. Totally my fault for not paying closer attention, because upon review of your video tonight, the content is very clear about how to tie the double-Michoacán AND how to load it.

I completely agree that when I form two equal load-bearing loops in each double-Michoacán, there are four legs, and when I clip into the pair of double-Michoacán's, there are eight legs sharing the load coming through the carabiner, so 1/8 of our weight is on each leg for a properly-configured JRB climbing system using two double Michoacán friction hitches. Thus, the factor of safety in the example I put in post #199 of this thread is incorrect. It should be = 73.6, not 36.8. Thanks for setting the record straight - it led me to have another look, and in the course of that I determined that I made a mistake in forming, and loading the hitches.

I'll be doing low-level test climbing again tomorrow evening with properly configured and properly clipped-in double-Michoacán hitches!
There is a lot of information in each video,I had to re-watch them to make sure I get all the details. I love the double mich hitches,I use 7 mm sterling accessory cord on 11.4mm predator rope and they work great.
 
It works better once it used a little bit, becomes more flexible and seems to grab a little better. Another nice cord with only a polyester cord but a big increase on strength is 6mm Samson’s WarpSpeed II. 5100 lbs break strength with an extra .5mm of diameter.
Coppa, WarpSpeed and Edelrid for comparison.
View attachment 53581
@Brocky, I have that 7mm Edelrid Skimmer rope coming and want to have some 5mm cords ready to test. Have Coppa and Bluewater Titan, and just ordered this:

I am almost ready to publish my friction hitch. Been climbing it exclusively for a month. Can't wait to test your artistry skills! And get your input.


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@tmattson - My favorite throw line is Samson Zing-it. The samthane coating makes it very resistant to tangles and makes it glide through tree crotches without getting frayed or stuck. Dynaglide is also excellent stuff.

For presets I use braided nylon masons line - it’s way cheaper than paracord, and if you get a subdued color, it’s nearly impossible for other hunters to notice your presets.
 
Guy's - what are you using for a "throw line" - and also just 500 pound para-cord for presets?

I like Dynaglide. There is also a cheaper option that I like by Emma Kites.
When I get a new roll, I run it around a tree and take both ends together and pull with all my weight. Then I throw it over the tallest limb I can hit and hang weight from both ends for a whole day. This gets rid of some of the memory and makes it easier to manage in a cube.
 
You snooze you loose, just received the pat. pending, first to publish, now I’ll be getting a slice of the pie!
View attachment 55347

Ok, I’m gonna need to see the other 208 drawings…..I think you should start a thread and drop one in every day or so…

Also, looking forward to playin with this hitch…from the ground first…


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Is this a new hitch? What are the characteristics of it (best use)? Did you and John collaborate on this?
Yes, this is a new friction hitch. But no, we did not collaborate. But we have crossed paths before. It was probably a couple of years ago when I was researching all friction hitches which can be tied in the bite. It was in a different forum for arborists. And this dude replied with these hand-drawn pix of friction hitches that you have never heard of before. And show as you guessed, it is the same dude. And no, the picture above is not my new friction hitch. But I have been climbing on it every day and every night with different combinations of rope and cord and tweaking and improving and I'm getting ready to make a submission. I just need a really cool name. And I realize there are already a lot of friction hitches and we don't need a new one unless it is special. And it is special!

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Heck, [mention]Brocky [/mention] had me goin! When I went to tie it, I thought this seems familiar, but I still haven’t placed it. What hitch is that?


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