The JRB Climbing Method

[John RB]

Heck, [mention]Brocky [/mention] had me goin! When I went to tie it, I thought this seems familiar, but I still haven’t placed it. What hitch is that?


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I will let @Brocky answer ... but i think it's called the Suislide!!

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[Brocky]

The middle hitch below is how I saw the hitch in post 201, similar to the hitch on left. Previous hitch above is a variation of the middle one. I can show different hitches, but there are many variables that can be different for each person, best to try them, low and slow to see how they work for you.
The Suislide is a mistied Blake’s, the tail has to be on correct side of rope. It is very deceiving, will hold beautifully, than next it won’t, Russian roulette comes to mind.
@FrankNess14, ding, ding,ding, you win the prize, you’re the first to mention the numbering system!

 

[LoadedLimbs]

I'll be doing low-level test climbing again tomorrow evening with properly configured and properly clipped-in double-Michoacán hitches!

@John RB - I was able to do more low level testing tonight and everything worked great with properly configured & loaded double-Michoacán hitches in the JRB Climbing System. I tied the 5-wrap configuration for each half of the double-Michoacán hitches today. The hitches held great and it was easy to overcome the friction to break them when I was ready to rappel. Tending them on the way down while rappelling on my ATC device was also easy. (It was night & day vs. the improperly configured & loaded hitches I was using two nights ago.)

My climbing rope was the Mammut 8mm Alpine dry (dynamic) rope.

I tested hitches made from Teufelberger 6mm Ocean Vectran cord first. Their performance was satisfactory and I would not hesitate to use that cord if high strength is a priority. It always held, but sometimes slid down an inch or two before it set. I think that with a little more attention to the initial dressing of the constriction, that can be eliminated.

I tested hitches made from Sterling 6mm TRC cord next. Their performance was better - they always held, and never slid down at all before they set. And they were a little easier to break when I was set up to rappel on my ATC.

I look forward to comparing the performance of the Sterling 6mm Accessory Cord when I receive it, but for now I’m good to go with the TRC.

Thank you very much for your published video content, your help, and your attention to this thread!

 

[John RB]

@John RB - I was able to do more low level testing tonight and everything worked great with properly configured & loaded double-Michoacán hitches in the JRB Climbing System. I tied the 5-wrap configuration for each half of the double-Michoacán hitches today. The hitches held great and it was easy to overcome the friction to break them when I was ready to rappel. Tending them on the way down while rappelling on my ATC device was also easy. (It was night & day vs. the improperly configured & loaded hitches I was using two nights ago.)

My climbing rope was the Mammut 8mm Alpine dry (dynamic) rope.

I tested hitches made from Teufelberger 6mm Ocean Vectran cord first. Their performance was satisfactory and I would not hesitate to use that cord if high strength is a priority. It always held, but sometimes slid down an inch or two before it set. I think that with a little more attention to the initial dressing of the constriction, that can be eliminated.

I tested hitches made from Sterling 6mm TRC cord next. Their performance was better - they always held, and never slid down at all before they set. And they were a little easier to break when I was set up to rappel on my ATC.

I look forward to comparing the performance of the Sterling 6mm Accessory Cord when I receive it, but for now I’m good to go with the TRC.

Thank you very much for your published video content, your help, and your attention to this thread!

My pleasure . Thx for the feedback. I seriously think we will all look back on this as a great experience. After u get in the system, you'll need to get to where u trust it and your Garda backup. Once you do, you'll need to master the "double shove "... you're basically at the crest of your rising move and as ya go into free fall, ya push them straight up the rope, but not pulling em towards you... just pushing straight up the line. Once ya get that move, you'll be hooked!

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[Brocky]

From post #201, Item 2, curious why the recommendation not to descend on hitches alone, has been done successfully for many decades up to the present time. A Moving Rope System or two hitches halves the load the hitch gets, easier breaking and less wear than a fixed rope and single hitch.
Item 4, two double Meechs equals four separate hitches and I only have two hands?

Re: skinny ropes, there may have been more wear than you thought on your Paso, if it broke away from a knot or hitch, that spot must have been weaker than the typical 40-50% strength loss of knots.

ERDCL: I’m not a fan of 16 std covers, usually stiffer and definitely bumpier, better grabbing, but harder to slide.

 

[John RB]

From post #201, Item 2, curious why the recommendation not to descend on hitches alone, has been done successfully for many decades up to the present time. A Moving Rope System or two hitches halves the load the hitch gets, easier breaking and less wear than a fixed rope and single hitch.
Item 4, two double Meechs equals four separate hitches and I only have two hands?

Re: skinny ropes, there may have been more wear than you thought on your Paso, if it broke away from a knot or hitch, that spot must have been weaker than the typical 40-50% strength loss of knots.

ERDCL: I’m not a fan of 16 std covers, usually stiffer and definitely bumpier, better grabbing, but harder to slide.

This @Brocky dude doesn't miss much... can't get ANYTHING past him... great questions and insights, and quite an impressive knot artist... but i do have answers:

1. Why do i prefer to always use a friction device and not rappel on hitches? Because of surface area, rope wear, and control. The MRS systems that arbs have been using forever have fatter 11+ mm ropes with 8 or 9mm cords with much more surface area. We are going the opposite direction here... i am taking it down to 7mm rope and 5mm cord. The surface area of the rope contact points is so much less, but it needs to absorb the same amount of friction. We get more control and less cord and rope wear. Also, MRS systems have that awful friction in the crotch that hurts us in ascent... but we forget how much it helps us in rappel. An MRS climber might only have closer to one third of their weight on the hitch during rappel... due to all that friction in the crotch. Also, friction hitches CAN work themselves tighter during a rappel. You might start off by breaking them both and be fine and then about halfway down, they get stuck and you can hardly move them. Meanwhile, they have absorbed quite a dose of friction and wear. I prefer to distribute that friction evenly over the entire length of my rope and not on the tiny little concentrated area of cord. My friction hitches last a very long time. If i was doing an arborist limb walk on a jrb system... i would climb in jrb mode and walk out in MRS mode. Always paying attention to your length profile, you just walk out on that limb and tend only one of the friction hit choose which will put it into Mrs mode. You will get more control. I do have an arb using jrb with an eye to eye Michoacán on each side. He told me they take abuse and need inspection and replacement. But I can trust an arborist to do that. My hunting audience simply doesn't have the kind of experience and so I want to give them something long-lasting.
2. You would need to have seen that Paso after 4 years of MRS to believe it. But yes, i have no good explanation for why it broke mid strand once in my JRB pull test. There had to be a minor flaw in it. But one break she's just not statistically viable. I will need to repeat all those tests with new rope. And it's an expensive Hobby.
3. I just received my Excel Racing Dingy Control Line. Only tied a couple quick hitches, but i think its a winner. Folds really well, and rugged. In my experience, the more course covers do well in wet conditions. You'll see it on my new 7.1 Edelrid skimmer. This is gonna be the LEANEST system ever.

Thx brother. Appreciate it.

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[Sempertodd]

Been following Johns youtube channel and here. Yesterday, I went out and tried and tested the JRB system as another hunting option. Full disclosure, I am a heavy set guy that has had both knees replaced and 54. Well, the JRB system is the easiest and tireless system I have tried in my 30 years of hunting. Once get a lull in the deer season I will experiment more, and give my thoughts from a broken down old guy (ha-ha). Keep up the great work, loving it. John, what size are you using for your redundant bridge?

 

[John RB]

Been following Johns youtube channel and here. Yesterday, I went out and tried and tested the JRB system as another hunting option. Full disclosure, I am a heavy set guy that has had both knees replaced and 54. Well, the JRB system is the easiest and tireless system I have tried in my 30 years of hunting. Once get a lull in the deer season I will experiment more, and give my thoughts from a broken down old guy (ha-ha). Keep up the great work, loving it. John, what size are you using for your redundant bridge?

First, I just want to say that getting this kind of feedback from someone I don't know who is objective and experienced is a great feeling. I am regularly asked if I would sell somebody is system and I continue to say no and that I want the climber to take responsibility to build their own and to truly own it. And so I appreciate that you are doing so and feel it's also in the best interest if you are safety and longevity. As for my redundant bridge, I built mine using 5.9 mm Sterling power cord. I have a dedicated video on that. You will note that the load is placed on two strands and so I do feel like the safety factor is more than adequate. When I originally made this video, I used 4.5 ft and closed it with a hunter's Bend. I have since reduced that to only four feet just to keep it a little bit shorter for some of my climbing methods. All you really need to worry about is that your two bridges are adequately separated so that they are not clinging together and give you plenty of room to work

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[deerfly]

as a devout srt guy going into 4th season I want to give this method a try. I can immediately see the parallels and benefit of this as it remains in the arborist/sar safety realm. The main trade-off with srt appears to be the elimination of hand ascender and mechanical belay plus gaining some added safety redundancy with the friction hitches. My foot loop can be re-purposed with new biners replacing delta link to hand ascender. Throw ball, and zip line and bag also repurposed, already proficient at hitting limbs up to 50' after 4 years of practice too. Instead of 40' of climbing line and a small dia 40' retrieval line (I currently use 800lb paracord) I need to essentially double the length of my climbing line and can ditch the retrieval line to help account for the extra bulk of the doubled climbing rope. And of course there's less metal stuff to jingle around with this method. On a happy note I now have an excuse to buy new climbing stuff, settling on SRT a few years ago has saved me a lot money...

 

[gcr0003]

as a devout srt guy going into 4th season I want to give this method a try. I can immediately see the parallels and benefit of this as it remains in the arborist/sar safety realm. The main trade-off with srt appears to be the elimination of hand ascender and mechanical belay plus gaining some added safety redundancy with the friction hitches. My foot loop can be re-purposed with new biners replacing delta link to hand ascender. Throw ball, and zip line and bag also repurposed, already proficient at hitting limbs up to 50' after 4 years of practice too. Instead of 40' of climbing line and a small dia 40' retrieval line (I currently use 800lb paracord) I need to essentially double the length of my climbing line and can ditch the retrieval line to help account for the extra bulk of the doubled climbing rope. And of course there's less metal stuff to jingle around with this method. On a happy note I now have an excuse to buy new climbing stuff, settling on SRT a few years ago has saved me a lot money...

I have been using the JRB Method exclusively for a few months now but I somehow justified getting rope for SRT/SRS.

regarding JRB method, I have noticed that the big wood forest that I hunt is great for JRB. The big trees are difficult if not impossible to climb with one stick or multiple sticks and there is always a big crotch and enough room to hit the limb which makes this system great for quick and efficient set up climb and take down.

In the River delta area I hunt with smaller thicker woods I’ve actually been able to base anchor the JRB rope and climb it the same way you would a standard base anchor set up.

I guess what I am saying is JRB method meets all my needs for hunting. I am still going to try SRT/SRS because I like climbing trees too much,

 

[John RB]

I have been using the JRB Method exclusively for a few months now but I somehow justified getting rope for SRT/SRS.

regarding JRB method, I have noticed that the big wood forest that I hunt is great for JRB. The big trees are difficult if not impossible to climb with one stick or multiple sticks and there is always a big crotch and enough room to hit the limb which makes this system great for quick and efficient set up climb and take down.

In the River delta area I hunt with smaller thicker woods I’ve actually been able to base anchor the JRB rope and climb it the same way you would a standard base anchor set up.

I guess what I am saying is JRB method meets all my needs for hunting. I am still going to try SRT/SRS because I like climbing trees too much,

Love it. I have been testing my new friction hitch and one of the tests i do is this: rig it onto both sides of the JRB hitch as per standard configuration. Put in in a tree. Take one side and abandon the friction hitch completely and simply tie a JRB hitch to the base of the tree. Then SRT climb the other side. If a friction hitch performs well holding 100% of our weight, its going to even better with half. But my main point here is that we have ONE system. And with no changes, we can climb using 4 methods:
Jrb style, stationary doubled
MRS
SRT
JRB HITCH Climbing method

Can't wait to show ya the hitch. If i skip hunting tomorrow, i can probably get it filmed.

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[Sempertodd]

I find this as a great method in the hunting "toolbox", I hunt public ground and there are some trees that are perfect, but to huge for anything other than ladder stand, unless you know this system. There is an old huge oak, locate in perfect spot for huge bucks, and this rope system is only way to do it without lugging huge stand in (not going to happen a mile in). I am going tonight and use the system in the tree and will report back. Don't skip hunting, we only get so many season in a lifetime and only so many days.

 

[gcr0003]

Love it. I have been testing my new friction hitch and one of the tests i do is this: rig it onto both sides of the JRB hitch as per standard configuration. Put in in a tree. Take one side and abandon the friction hitch completely and simply tie a JRB hitch to the base of the tree. Then SRT climb the other side. If a friction hitch performs well holding 100% of our weight, its going to even better with half. But my main point here is that we have ONE system. And with no changes, we can climb using 4 methods:
Jrb style, stationary doubled
MRS
SRT
JRB HITCH Climbing method

Can't wait to show ya the hitch. If i skip hunting tomorrow, i can probably get it filmed.

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John you got to come up with some other names man. You have too many things named JRB I can’t keep up. Maybe use just your last name or something for one of them. Everything can’t be called JRB LOL.
JRB HITCH
JRB CLIMBING METHOD
JRB FRICTION HITCH
JRB FOOT LOOP
JRB ROPE
JRB TETHER
JRB POUCH
JRB RAPPEL

only poking fun, name it all however you want, just don’t expect me not to get the threads criss crossed and mixed up haha!

 

[gcr0003]

If it’s daylight when I set up I’m JRB climbing

 

[deerfly]

I have been using the JRB Method exclusively for a few months now but I somehow justified getting rope for SRT/SRS.

regarding JRB method, I have noticed that the big wood forest that I hunt is great for JRB. The big trees are difficult if not impossible to climb with one stick or multiple sticks and there is always a big crotch and enough room to hit the limb which makes this system great for quick and efficient set up climb and take down.

In the River delta area I hunt with smaller thicker woods I’ve actually been able to base anchor the JRB rope and climb it the same way you would a standard base anchor set up.

I guess what I am saying is JRB method meets all my needs for hunting. I am still going to try SRT/SRS because I like climbing trees too much,

Same here, I don't see myself completely giving up on SRT as it has worked very well for me to date.

I also hunt a lot of old growth inland and coastal swamp in Fl with some very high canopies. So setting a climbing line can be difficult, which is why I became more proficient at using the throw ball. Hitting limbs at 35+ ft also required a pop open bag to keep the zip line clear from the clutter on the ground. With the JRB method I could see cases where 80-100' of rope could be needed for a 45'-50' limb set. Based on my experience those heights are edge cases tho. I've got by with 45' climbing rope for SRT and generally have a lot of rope on the ground since most sets are 20'-30' up. Still, even 70'-80' is pile of rope to carry, but I need to actually try this method to give a fair comparison. I have plenty of rope to experiment with 10'-15' sets on my property to practice with.

 

[LoadedLimbs]

@John RB - I executed my first saddle hunt using the JRB climbing method yesterday afternoon in a giant oak tree. It’s a new tree for me, and I put up the preset last weekend over a crotch 40’ up. I effortlessly climbed to between 25’ & 30’ and started my sit for the evening hunt loving the ease & simplicity of this climbing system!

The oak I was in is way too big for a platform or ROS, so I just used my Garda hitch foot loop as my platform, like you mentioned in one of your videos. I did wear a pair of knee pads to make sitting comfortable, but I found leaning with one foot in each loop to be a little more comfortable than sitting knees to tree using the foot loops.

I hunted until the end of legal hunting hours (sunset) but I didn’t have any deer come through while I was there. Of course my cell cam sent me a pic of a nice 8-pointer that came through 90 minutes after dark!

My climbing preference up to now has been SRT, but I really like the safety and redundancy of this system. I also really like using lightweight 8mm dynamic “half” rope without a canopy anchor. With the rope over a crotch at 40’, the stretch in the doubled dynamic rope actually makes the climb and the sit more comfortable than on static rope.

I’m looking forward to using this system on long hunts during the rut!

 

[John RB]

@John RB - I executed my first saddle hunt using the JRB climbing method yesterday afternoon in a giant oak tree. It’s a new tree for me, and I put up the preset last weekend over a crotch 40’ up. I effortlessly climbed to between 25’ & 30’ and started my sit for the evening hunt loving the ease & simplicity of this climbing system!

The oak I was in is way too big for a platform or ROS, so I just used my Garda hitch foot loop as my platform, like you mentioned in one of your videos. I did wear a pair of knee pads to make sitting comfortable, but I found leaning with one foot in each loop to be a little more comfortable than sitting knees to tree using the foot loops.

I hunted until the end of legal hunting hours (sunset) but I didn’t have any deer come through while I was there. Of course my cell cam sent me a pic of a nice 8-pointer that came through 90 minutes after dark!

My climbing preference up to now has been SRT, but I really like the safety and redundancy of this system. I also really like using lightweight 8mm dynamic “half” rope without a canopy anchor. With the rope over a crotch at 40’, the stretch in the doubled dynamic rope actually makes the climb and the sit more comfortable than on static rope.

I’m looking forward to using this system on long hunts during the rut!

Love it. Thanks. When ya get real comfortable with the ascent technique, you'll realize that the dynamic component in the rope actually helps us fly up the Rope a little easier because we get a little bounce to get started. It's kind of the way that Flex in a golf shaft can generate more Club head speed. And when I show you the new friction hitch, you are going to flip your lid. I'm going to try to get a video done this weekend

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[gcr0003]

 

[John RB]

Thx for posting the new video link on my JRB Ascender Hitch... I tried to do so yesterday but the site was down... the only thing I am NOT looking forward to is pushing @Brocky to the limits of his significant artistry skills and trying to draw this in a single image... there is a lot going on and so it would be difficult to do and still make it clear what's happening on the backside. To be clear, this was a knot introduction video... i still need to do one on its integration INTO this system, but it works great and i can run em in standard mode OR bridge mode. Generally i do it in standard mode and save bridge mode for the JRB Hitch Climbing method.

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[gcr0003]

Thx for posting the new video link on my JRB Ascender Hitch... I tried to do so yesterday but the site was down... the only thing I am NOT looking forward to is pushing @Brocky to the limits of his significant artistry skills and trying to draw this in a single image... there is a lot going on and so it would be difficult to do and still make it clear what's happening on the backside. To be clear, this was a knot introduction video... i still need to do one on its integration INTO this system, but it works great and i can run em in standard mode OR bridge mode. Generally i do it in standard mode and save bridge mode for the JRB Hitch Climbing method.

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What a cool hitch! Great work coming up with this @John RB. have you tried this with coppa 5000 on the Mammut? I’m planning to try it this evening.
I never asked but why do you prefer the hunters bend over the zeppelin bend? FWIW I recently watched a video of bends breaking strength from Hownot2 and the zeppelin bend performed extremely well. From what I can tell the hunters bend and zeppelin bend are very similar. I want to make some bends and send them to him for testing.