The Wraptor

[NMSbowhunter]

Thanks for the insight. Nothing beats experience. I am looking forward to the build. It should be a fun project. I do want to get a good used sewing machine that can handle this sort of work.

 

[vtbowhunt]

I made mine (https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/the-ander-wrap-hopper-murph-sling.28900/) as a continuous loop for both panels. The recon is built this way. The continuous loop method allows for the two panels to adjust to each other. I’ve been happy with mine.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Ok, I began mocking this up with one continuous loop since it has been pointed out that this allows the loops to self-adjust through the D rings and I think that having fewer breaks in the webbing should make it just a bit stronger.

Here is what I am running into. If I make one loop through the rings I end up with the starting end (A) and the finished end of the loop (B) (I have not cut anything yet) on the opposite sides of the strapping so that I seem to have to cross over the strapping at some point (D) so that (C) is on the outside of the loop as it passes the left hand D ring but meets up with (D) and crosses into the inside of the loop. It would seem that set up this way that the straps must cross and would not lay flat. Is this correct as I have it laid out?

 

[vtbowhunt]

Ok, I began mocking this up with one continuous loop since it has been pointed out that this allows the loops to self-adjust through the D rings and I think that having fewer breaks in the webbing should make it just a bit stronger.

Here is what I am running into. If I make one loop through the rings I end up with the starting end (A) and the finished end of the loop (B) (I have not cut anything yet) on the opposite sides of the strapping so that I seem to have to cross over the strapping at some point (D) so that (C) is on the outside of the loop as it passes the left hand D ring but meets up with (D) and crosses into the inside of the loop. I would seem that set up this way that the straps must cross and would not lay flat. Is this correct as I have it laid out?

That looks correct. I had to cross over on mine. You never notice it.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I think it is right also after studying it for a while. I think my eyes were just crossing after working with that seatbelt material. I put some makeshift vertical dividers made of the same material I cut from some old unused harnesses and it all came together. I also took my Recon and really studied how the loops were arranged.

Now to work out the sizing. I wear a 30-inch waist in jeans. Factoring in some bulk for late season I am thinking that if my webbing straps are 30 inches and the D rings will add another inch to each side easily, I should be OK. This would make it a couple of inches wider than my Recon, which I find to be very comfortable. I have the small Recon and it is 28 inches wide stretched out. This was just the initial mockup. I may end up sizing it just like the Recon.

The loop would be fixed at the uprights circled below with box X stitching and most likely 3 box X stitching between the verticals.

 

[Bwhana]

I think it is right also after studying it for a while. I think my eyes were just crossing after working with that seatbelt material. I put some makeshift vertical dividers made of the same material I cut from some old unused harnesses and it all came together. I also took my Recon and really studied how the loops were arranged.

Now to work out the sizing. I wear a 30-inch waist in jeans. Factoring in some bulk for late season I am thinking that if my webbing straps are 30 inches and the D rings will add another inch to each side easily, I should be OK. This would make it a couple of inches wider than my Recon, which I find to be very comfortable. I have the small Recon and it is 28 inches wide stretched out. This was just the initial mockup. I may end up sizing it just like the Recon.

The loop would be fixed at the uprights circled below with box X stitching and most likely 3 box X stitching between the verticals.

One critical part to the sewing on these, and one that the Recon is missing on the section for the leg loops, is the spacers need to be fully stitched together through the entire piece. That sewing stiffens them and holds the loops apart and gives it more comfort. That is straight from the original Anderson design too.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

This is what I am thinking so far. I was planning to add a box X to the spreaders since I do not plan to add leg loops. If I space the inside of the spreaders 6 inches apart then I can get three 2 inch square box X stitches in between them on the part of the loop that joins up, giving me 5 total box X stitches across the area where the webbing joins up. Three in the middle going through 2 layers with one on each end going through 4 layers of webbing. I believe this is what you are talking about. Box X stitches in the webbing between the main straps holding them apart. Thanks Bwhana.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

This is where I am so far. I built a fixture to hold the rings while I wrestle with the webbing. The white lines are the overlap of the ends of the webbing loop. As it sits now I will have 10 inches of webbing overlapped where the loops join up with 5 box X stitches securing them. I think that should be strong. The yellow lines are where the two inch webbing spreaders will be. The red line is the center. The D loops are 30 inches apart.

 

[Homebrew454]

This is where I am so far. I built a fixture to hold the rings while I wrestle with the webbing. The white lines are the overlap of the ends of the webbing loop. As it sits now I will have 10 inches of webbing overlapped where the loops join up with 5 box X stitches securing them. I think that should be strong. The yellow lines are where the two inch webbing spreaders will be. The red line is the center. The D loops are 30 inches apart.

What size thread are you using? There is a formula for what each inch of stitching will have for breaking strength. It is in one of the sewing threads. I forgot which 1 i put it in. You could have an actual theoretical breaking strength that should be fairly accurate if you wanted to do some simple math.

I'm thinking you should be good with 10 inches of overlap... As long as the stitches are good quality and tex69 or large thread.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I saw Tex69 mentioned. I have not gotten to the point of actual sewing since I either have to buy a sewing machine or find a local shop to do the sewing. I made a couple of calls the other day but no luck so far with the shops. I just got voicemails. I watched some videos that explained the formula for stitch strength. It is pretty straightforward. I doubt I am ready to proceed to the sewing stage until sometime in February since I still have the rest of January to hunt unless I find a good shop I trust to do a good job sewing.

I would really like to get a solid used machine that can handle this sort of task and learn to do the sewing myself. The Singer 15-91 is one I am looking at.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Ok, I did some more work on the 2 panel sling today. I settled on the dimensions and plan to have 10 inches of overlap where the two ends of the continuous loop meet. These will be reinforced by the two upright spacers which at that point will be 4 layers thick. Between these two upright spacers will be room for three 2 inch box X stitches giving me five across the connection point. The connectors will then have a box X stitch in the two inch divider section between the straps, then another box X stitch below that joining the lower strap to the connectors. By making it in units of 2 inches it should make it balance out for placing those stitch patterns. Thoughts?

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Both loops set with spacers. I need to get busy next week and either buy a sewing machine or find a local shop to sew this up for me. This is a lot of fun.

 

[Jimdude]

I suggest you watch some videos on refinishing 15-91’s. I paid good money ($130 shipped) for one in near mint condition but had I watched these videos before buying, I probably would have saved myself $100 and bought one that was a little rough around the edges.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Thanks Jimdude. I have a lot to learn about sewing machines. This is all new territory for me. I read some threads the other day that suggested the 15-91's should be obtainable for $30 to $40 range. I checked Facebook marketplace for something local with no luck. On Ebay they vary wildly in price, but I see them listed mostly for about $130 and up and the shipping is usually pretty steep.

 

[Navigator]

I think it is right also after studying it for a while. I think my eyes were just crossing after working with that seatbelt material. I put some makeshift vertical dividers made of the same material I cut from some old unused harnesses and it all came together. I also took my Recon and really studied how the loops were arranged.

NMSbowhunter,

If you carefully look at the Recon, it is not made with one continuous loop, but with two loops, as shown by Bwhana in post 370. This is exactly the same way that the original Anderson sling is made (I have two Anderson slings as well as a Recon to confirm).

The connections of the two separate webbing loops are actually embedded within the sewing of the vertical ladders. You will find two such places where there are 4 layers of webbing being sewn together, thus creating the two loops to form the sling. The loops are not for the upper portion and then the lower portion, but are made as shown by Bwhana in post 370.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Yes, after careful examination of my Recon I came to that conclusion also by carefully following the webbing. I seem to remember that somewhere it was stated that the Recon was made of one continuous loop. It is two loops with the connections in the vertical spacers.

I guess what I am getting at is out of all three types of construction, (1) 2 independent loops not connected to one another, (2) 2 loops with the supports connecting them to one another or (3) one continuous loop, which is best?

 

[Navigator]

I have not tried a one continuous loop version, but I will say that option 2 (Anderson and Recon design) is more comfortable and easier to adjust for me than option 1 (two independent loops). Option 3 is easier to sew as you only have one place to connect the ends of the loops versus 2 for option 2. So as long as the routing is the same between option 2 and option 3 (i.e. the very top and very bottom webbing flow into each other and then the middle two webbing pieces follow), I would not expect a difference in performance. I will also note that I carry my sling in my backpack and place it on at the base of the tree and I do not use dump pouches, so take that into consideration when building and using your sling.

I have done numerous all day sits in the Recon and Anderson versions, both in my hunting area at home as well as out of state hunts. I start the day with both panels slightly overlapping each other. After several hours I move the top panel up to the small of my back. Then in the afternoon, I place the panels slightly overlapping again.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Thanks for the feedback. I will carefully study the arrangement of the loop as I have it set up now and determine if it does join up like the Anderson and Recon that are 2 loops. I believe it does. Nothing has been stitched yet. I do have a line on some local sewing machines and hopefully I can get out this week and take a look at them.

I go about 50-50 with wearing the Recon in above my hips like a weightlifter's belt and carrying it in in my backpack and putting it on at the base of the tree. It usually depends on how many layers I am wearing and or plan to put on. I don't use pouches. I have done a few 7 hour sits in the Recon and find it very comfortable. I usually set it so that the bottom panel of the top section overlaps the top portion of the bottom section and gives me about a 9 inch seat. I then only have to adjust it slightly every couple of hours.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Ok, so after finding a great deal on a Singer 15-91 sewing machine and getting supplies and trying to learn how to sew I got to sit in my first home grown saddle today. This is a test saddle and I do not trust it (my sewing) to use at any height other than just right off the ground. It is 28 inches between rings and I constructed it using two loops connected like the Anderson and Recon. I am still getting the hang sewing so it will likely be a while before I start on what I hope will end up being a true finished product to use at hunting height. This has been a fun learning experience so far and has been very satisfying. I plan to keep making them until I get good.

Here I am sitting in the saddle on my practice tree out back. This is about as high as I want to go in prototype #1. I have to say it is pretty comfortable. Here is a picture of the saddle. My stitching showed improvement from the start of the project to the end. I'm pleased with my first attempt. Thanks again to all those who have shared their experience along the way. I appreciate it.

 

[Bwhana]

Ok, so after finding a great deal on a Singer 15-91 sewing machine and getting supplies and trying to learn how to sew I got to sit in my first home grown saddle today. This is a test saddle and I do not trust it (my sewing) to use at any height other than just right off the ground. It is 28 inches between rings and I constructed it using two loops connected like the Anderson and Recon. I am still getting the hang sewing so it will likely be a while before I start on what I hope will end up being a true finished product to use at hunting height. This has been a fun learning experience so far and has been very satisfying. I plan to keep making them until I get good.

Here I am sitting in the saddle on my practice tree out back. This is about as high as I want to go in prototype #1. I have to say it is pretty comfortable. Here is a picture of the saddle. My stitching showed improvement from the start of the project to the end. I'm pleased with my first attempt. Thanks again to all those who have shared their experience along the way. I appreciate it.

That is a nice looking first attempt! Enjoy the process and don't be afraid to tweak it and try new ideas and share as you go. We are all still searching for perfection that we can't achieve.