Thick cover questions

[mike.podolan]

When you are scouting, look for the ”edges”. I have a tree that i sit and the woods are fairly open, but there is a barely perceptible strip where the trees are just a little closer together with a few more saplings and that’s where the deer trail. Deer love sapling/briar thickets, which are often found on the edge of where water stands or where water once stood. Good Luck! Oh, also downed trees create pinch points or funnels where the deer go around the root ball sticking up out of the ground.

This description matches some of the spots I have hunted or marked for possible setup locations. I feel like where I'm sitting is too open, but my thought was that I might catch them working along the edge. I think maybe I need to modify the setups a bit to try to take advantage of these edges PLUS the entrance and exit trails to the thicker cover.

 

[mike.podolan]

Spot on. Whenever I find a big shed antler, I closely examine it for little scratches/tick marks. If you find one covered in those micro scratches, you can bet he's spending a lot of time in the thick stuff, and that's where I'm gonna spend my time looking for the other antler and/or the buck. On the contrary, if the antler is smooth and polished without many scratches, your time would be better spent searching more open areas, or maybe thick stuff with soft stems (tall grasses). Different bucks will figure out different ways to avoid hunters (or keep tabs on them), even on the same property.

This level of detail is something I never really considered. Thanks for weighing in!

 

[PEEJAY]

Mostly observational, it's my rookie season but I'm not scared to cover ground. I want to be successful in hunting but so early in my efforts knowledge is more important than success, to me, so I still scout a lot.

I would offer a few guesses though.

Guesses are that terrain is favorable to deer for wind and thermals, probably offer some visual cover as well,the lower lying areas. Also protection from wind depending on the landscape, wind chill gets us all. Also water doesn't fluctuate in temperature as fast as air, so it could potentially be warmer or colder - a heat sink or ice cube depending on conditions.

There's also little green vegetation out there, so water might need to come from water rather than from whatever they're eating. So they're more inclined to stay close to wet/water. The most hardy plants may be able to use the extra moisture as well, possibly sustaining new growth, which in turn is food for our tasty friends.

Autumn olive is one hardy, hard to kill s.o.b. of a plant, they've got leaves hanging on still some places. If I recall right, it is also able to spread through its root system, that would probably mean that it will have new shoots coming up earlier than some other plants. New shoots being sustained by established plants, so again more resilient. Tender browse should be preferred as far as I know.

I've also noticed some seriously thorny vine like plants, kinda like brambles but I'm not sure this time of year, that are definitely still green, living and flexible, near the autumn olive. That's probably good food this time of year, if you're a deer. ( I'm finding groups -3 deer I believe, so a doe group- of fresh sign in these areas,along trails. Travel routes! With buffet stops!)

Long winded, sorry. I also welcome all thoughts or comments, let's learn together!

As it gets brutally cold and their selection of browse gets diminished or covered by snow, deer will target greenbriar because its one of the only "green" plants around. And its great bedding cover. I will focus on greenbriar thickets in the late season. they dont have to move much during the day. THey have food and cover all around them. I learned that watching from the "wrong tree" 15 years ago when i first started hunting public. Pretty sure i got down and tried to stalk unsuccessfully lol but its one of those things i still use to find new areas late season. I also target those spots during shed hunting for the same reason.
Shed hunting is a great clue for your late season spots. Wherever theyre bedding in february/march is probably where theyre bedding in late december/january. I think a very important part of being successful late season hunting is acknowledging that your pre and early season scouting info can do you more harm than good if you are hunting that property the same way. Winds change, food changes, bedding areas change, travel range changes, hunter pressure changes.

"low areas": These spots will hold deer when its windy and cold but can be tricky to hunt. The deer are there but the wind will swirl in there and your chances of getting blown at for 15-20 min by an old doe go wayyyy up. Its tempting to set up in spots like this that give you a good shot and hold deer but often times if you arent paying close attention to thermals and all the swirling, youre doing more harm than good. Not saying it cant be done! My best advice for hunting spots with weird winds is MILKWEED. compared to the little bottles of powder or your breath freezing and blowing away its not even a fair contest. You can learn so much about a spot using that little miracle seed poof. I would never hunt a single spot without it. Especially if im in new areas. During firearms its easier to work those spots because you can position yourself farther away on a ridge where that wind isnt gonna swirl back down to them.

Also, careful with how you scout bedding areas during the season. Deer are highly alert and cautious now and they will come back and bed there eventually but it might be a week or more until they feel like its safe again. if its close to a human trail and they were using it in the preseason its almost guaranteed to be empty by now. If i scout anywhere during the season i am staying off (but close by) all their trails, trying to keep my scent on my clothes and boots to a minimum, and wont bother hunting a spot i walked all through for at least a week if i have that option. i know this from hanging cameras on trails with fresh sign. It might take a while to start seeing them use it again even though it looked like a buffalo stampede comes through there twice a day.

 

[Plebe]

Spot on. Whenever I find a big shed antler, I closely examine it for little scratches/tick marks. If you find one covered in those micro scratches, you can bet he's spending a lot of time in the thick stuff, and that's where I'm gonna spend my time looking for the other antler and/or the buck. On the contrary, if the antler is smooth and polished without many scratches, your time would be better spent searching more open areas, or maybe thick stuff with soft stems (tall grasses). Different bucks will figure out different ways to avoid hunters (or keep tabs on them), even on the same property.

I haven't read the whole thread. In time I will, looks like lots of goodies.

But I'm glad to see grasses mentioned.

I walk a creek bottom almost daily and having used my archery tag in early October, I have been keeping tabs on the deer in this area throughout the majority hunting season. There is a lot of truly thick shrub brush with tunnels and all that, but also some spots with wetland grasses. That is where the bucks have been bedding. Well, heavy rain and snow really collapsed all that and, despite plenty of thick adjacent security cover, the deer have largely moved on. For whatever reason, those comparatively "open" areas of tall grass held them in there.

Just like fields of goldenrod on windy days.

Separately, I don't know if it's been talked about, but personally I don't look at thick as just a security thing. There is usually some pretty good browse in thickets around here, but I guess that depends on what grows in your region.

 

[mike.podolan]

As it gets brutally cold and their selection of browse gets diminished or covered by snow, deer will target greenbriar because its one of the only "green" plants around. And its great bedding cover. I will focus on greenbriar thickets in the late season. they dont have to move much during the day. THey have food and cover all around them. I learned that watching from the "wrong tree" 15 years ago when i first started hunting public. Pretty sure i got down and tried to stalk unsuccessfully lol but its one of those things i still use to find new areas late season. I also target those spots during shed hunting for the same reason.
Shed hunting is a great clue for your late season spots. Wherever theyre bedding in february/march is probably where theyre bedding in late december/january. I think a very important part of being successful late season hunting is acknowledging that your pre and early season scouting info can do you more harm than good if you are hunting that property the same way. Winds change, food changes, bedding areas change, travel range changes, hunter pressure changes.

"low areas": These spots will hold deer when its windy and cold but can be tricky to hunt. The deer are there but the wind will swirl in there and your chances of getting blown at for 15-20 min by an old doe go wayyyy up. Its tempting to set up in spots like this that give you a good shot and hold deer but often times if you arent paying close attention to thermals and all the swirling, youre doing more harm than good. Not saying it cant be done! My best advice for hunting spots with weird winds is MILKWEED. compared to the little bottles of powder or your breath freezing and blowing away its not even a fair contest. You can learn so much about a spot using that little miracle seed poof. I would never hunt a single spot without it. Especially if im in new areas. During firearms its easier to work those spots because you can position yourself farther away on a ridge where that wind isnt gonna swirl back down to them.

Also, careful with how you scout bedding areas during the season. Deer are highly alert and cautious now and they will come back and bed there eventually but it might be a week or more until they feel like its safe again. if its close to a human trail and they were using it in the preseason its almost guaranteed to be empty by now. If i scout anywhere during the season i am staying off (but close by) all their trails, trying to keep my scent on my clothes and boots to a minimum, and wont bother hunting a spot i walked all through for at least a week if i have that option. i know this from hanging cameras on trails with fresh sign. It might take a while to start seeing them use it again even though it looked like a buffalo stampede comes through there twice a day.

Thanks for the info! I haven't been able to find any greenbriar in my scouting, but I have definitely been looking for other good cover that could serve as browse. I'm still trying to figure it out, though. Any other major species that deer prefer for late season or winter browse?

I have been using a variety of the milkweed strategy more consistently this year. It is definitely nice to be able to see where the wind goes farther away from where you are set up.

 

[mike.podolan]

I haven't read the whole thread. In time I will, looks like lots of goodies.

But I'm glad to see grasses mentioned.

I walk a creek bottom almost daily and having used my archery tag in early October, I have been keeping tabs on the deer in this area throughout the majority hunting season. There is a lot of truly thick shrub brush with tunnels and all that, but also some spots with wetland grasses. That is where the bucks have been bedding. Well, heavy rain and snow really collapsed all that and, despite plenty of thick adjacent security cover, the deer have largely moved on. For whatever reason, those comparatively "open" areas of tall grass held them in there.

Just like fields of goldenrod on windy days.

Separately, I don't know if it's been talked about, but personally I don't look at thick as just a security thing. There is usually some pretty good browse in thickets around here, but I guess that depends on what grows in your region.

I have some areas that have a decent bit of grasses/CRP. I jumped a nice bachelor group out of one of these spots last summer. I just haven't tried hunting it because I really don't know how.

 

[Horn]

Thanks for the info! I haven't been able to find any greenbriar in my scouting, but I have definitely been looking for other good cover that could serve as browse. I'm still trying to figure it out, though. Any other major species that deer prefer for late season or winter browse?

I have been using a variety of the milkweed strategy more consistently this year. It is definitely nice to be able to see where the wind goes farther away from where you are set up.

Also curious about late season food sources.

This is a great thread!

 

[Lowg08]

I get right in their business. I will hunt as close as I can to the bedding. My best stand right now I know there are beds less than 40 yards from me. Just have to plan a route. As far as winter time food source. Woody browse is up there too. Watch a deer move though the thickets. Just pinch buds here and and there as they go. Bite the smaller tops off green briar. Im not against gun hunting but I feel like since I laid the gun down. I have learned way more about deer because the nature of archery hunting puts you in a closer proximity. Makes you watch a deer close the gap and notice how they move and act as they do.

 

[BackSpasm]

Spot on. Whenever I find a big shed antler, I closely examine it for little scratches/tick marks. If you find one covered in those micro scratches, you can bet he's spending a lot of time in the thick stuff, and that's where I'm gonna spend my time looking for the other antler and/or the buck. On the contrary, if the antler is smooth and polished without many scratches, your time would be better spent searching more open areas, or maybe thick stuff with soft stems (tall grasses). Different bucks will figure out different ways to avoid hunters (or keep tabs on them), even on the same property.

Im not sure if I buy this or not. Its a cool idea but there are a lot of variables. Scratches could just mean that buck likes to spar, or may have a preference for a certain type of rub tree, while another buck prefers a softer or pulpier wood etc. There is also the effect of photobleaching as I think deer who sit out of the direct sunlight often have darker, unbleached racks compared to the lighter color of those living out in the plains states, although I think the trees they rub also play into the color and therefor vary regionally as well. Just look at the bleaching process that happens to antlers that lay in fields after being shed for a year. Lighter-colored or less stained racks, in my experience, don't show scratches as well overall.


For instance, here is a southern swamp buck from Arkansas next to a Nebraska Plains whitetail. Obviously, these things vary widely with habitat for each buck but I would think the Arkansas buck would "reveal" a lot more scratches on examination. Something to think about that complicates antler interpretation

 

[BackSpasm]

And as far as my opinion on the thick stuff, usually I try to hunt fresh buck sign on the periphery of the thick if the wind permits. But sometimes on a rare cold morning I like to get right in the middle of it and sit for a long time. I killed one buck squatting on my knees and shooting under a 3-foot ceiling of shrub canopy, but its hard to stay invested in a really tight set up like that for a long hunt. I would say "thick" varies based on the property I am on and comes in many shapes and sizes. I try to hunt the edge where I can either see along the transition or see down into the thick in some fashion if possible. Topography often prevents me from doing that here in hill county, so I usually hunt the side that helps keep me downwind with the predominant wind and thermal currents if possible, but that is easier said than done. That means bucks will also be cruising that downwind transition to scent check if its the rut. I have killed them exiting thickets into a saddle, entering a thicket in the morning, exiting a thicket to a food source, bedded in a thick spot and shot when I walked up and he stood up, cruising through thick spots, etc etc. The best thing you can do in my opinion if you just want to kill a deer is

1. identify "thick" for your property and confirm deer are using it (fresh sign of all varieties)
2. find a place to see/shoot either into or alongside the thick
3. know the wind forecast and what it will do when the sun either comes up or goes down
4. move on after you hunt it to a new similar spot and try again

(bonus points if you know what food they are hitting inside or outside of this area of cover)

 

[OspreyZB]

Im not sure if I buy this or not. Its a cool idea but there are a lot of variables. Scratches could just mean that buck likes to spar, or may have a preference for a certain type of rub tree, while another buck prefers a softer or pulpier wood etc. There is also the effect of photobleaching as I think deer who sit out of the direct sunlight often have darker, unbleached racks compared to the lighter color of those living out in the plains states, although I think the trees they rub also play into the color and therefor vary regionally as well. Just look at the bleaching process that happens to antlers that lay in fields after being shed for a year. Lighter-colored or less stained racks, in my experience, don't show scratches as well overall.


For instance, here is a southern swamp buck from Arkansas next to a Nebraska Plains whitetail. Obviously, these things vary widely with habitat for each buck but I would think the Arkansas buck would "reveal" a lot more scratches on examination. Something to think about that complicates antler interpretation

View attachment 77908View attachment 77909

The coloration of a fresh shed can definitely help clue you in on where a buck is hanging out. The scratches I'm talking about are not from sparring or rubbing, and have little to do with antler coloration though. If they were from sparring or fighting, the scratches wouldn't be so tiny, and there would be a correlation with broken tines. If they were from rubbing, they'd be mostly around the bases/brow tines. You can see these scratches on a dark chocolate racked swamp buck, or a bleached out shed that's been laying for a year. Every antler in my house has them to some extent, some much more than others. The ones with the least amount of scratches are deer that were killed early season, shortly after shedding velvet.

 

[mike.podolan]

And as far as my opinion on the thick stuff, usually I try to hunt fresh buck sign on the periphery of the thick if the wind permits. But sometimes on a rare cold morning I like to get right in the middle of it and sit for a long time. I killed one buck squatting on my knees and shooting under a 3-foot ceiling of shrub canopy, but its hard to stay invested in a really tight set up like that for a long hunt. I would say "thick" varies based on the property I am on and comes in many shapes and sizes. I try to hunt the edge where I can either see along the transition or see down into the thick in some fashion if possible. Topography often prevents me from doing that here in hill county, so I usually hunt the side that helps keep me downwind with the predominant wind and thermal currents if possible, but that is easier said than done. That means bucks will also be cruising that downwind transition to scent check if its the rut. I have killed them exiting thickets into a saddle, entering a thicket in the morning, exiting a thicket to a food source, bedded in a thick spot and shot when I walked up and he stood up, cruising through thick spots, etc etc. The best thing you can do in my opinion if you just want to kill a deer is

1. identify "thick" for your property and confirm deer are using it (fresh sign of all varieties)
2. find a place to see/shoot either into or alongside the thick
3. know the wind forecast and what it will do when the sun either comes up or goes down
4. move on after you hunt it to a new similar spot and try again

(bonus points if you know what food they are hitting inside or outside of this area of cover)

Thank you for sharing these details! I am definitely getting a much clearer picture of how to dial in my scouting and identification of potential setups throughout the end of this season and during postseason scouting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

Those very thick areas...hunt the trails/tunnels going in and out from a nearby tree where you have shooting lanes. try to figure out where they are going to feed and where they come back from to bed depending on different winds, time of year, etc.

You have to get as close as you can without spooking deer. i like mornings because i can get in there real early and wait for them to get back. if you're doing an afternoon hunt you might not be able to get as close. another thing you can do is stay downwind farther away for your first hunt and try to pin point where they are coming from. pay attention to the wind tho. if its blowing opposite they might not come that same way or even bed there period

Also, i usually find the less beaten in trails belong to a buck and the cattle path lookin trails belong to the doe herd. The bucks might use a different route in to the same stuff but just a little bit away.

An observation sit or two 50-75 yards off but with good visibility can pay dividends here to pinpoint that faint or unseeable trail the bucks are using.

Boom, baby. All of this.
Interesting point by @PEEJAY concerning the appearance of doe trails vs buck trails. Now I’ve got something new to observe. Thanks!