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Video-tell me what I am doing wrong! (Or right?)

thedutchtouch

thedutchtouch

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2020
Messages
3,505
Location
Maryland
Alright folks, here's a short video from my very first session shooting my sage in the back yard. This is shots 10-12 out of a recurve/this bow, I've been shooting compound for 4ish years. Roughly 10 yards away, but more interested in if I'm doing things wrong form wise- don't want to get off to a bad start. Not so sure about this tab, I may pick up a glove to compare.

Shooting a samick sage with 25 lb recurve limbs (though likely most of those details are obvious to you all). I believe the arrows are pretty over-spined, they came with a different 45 lb bow that I'm working up to - they are Easton XX75 camo hunters, 1916 LITE. I'm failing to find the correct spine chart at the moment but assume that are over-spined for this bow, care more about my form than what the arrows look like in the target. I think?

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Sage session 1-25 lb limbs

I'm a newbie, looking for form advice and general critiques. Arrows are likely well over-spined, came with a 45 lb bow
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Edit: hopefully video quality will improve as well!
 
I am no expert, but it looks like you are comming to a correct anchor. You right arm is level so you are not torking the string. Don't see anything incorrect.
 
I'm looking at the video on a little phone screen so it's a little hard to see the minor details. You don't look horrible. Not exactly sure what you are expecting right out of the gate.

But it does look like you have a bit of a death grip on the bow handle. Maybe loosen up on it a little. Hold it just light enough so it doesn't fall. Better yet, get a sling.

It's hard to tell from the camera angle but you might want to close your stance slightly. Straight alignment is important.

Something I learned from the Rod Jenkins class is to be more deliberate with shot preparation. You do seem a little rushed with each shot from nocking to drawing.

1st, align feet and shoulders to the target. 2nd, carefully grip the string... deep hook at the 1st knuckle, flat back of the hand and hand/forearm relatively relaxed. You are drawing with your back, not your arm.

3rd, bow hand needs to be in set position before you start to draw.

Everyone will have variations in their personal style. For me, I find that I shoot better if I first get the bow up and pointed towards the target before I put substantial tension on the string. My thoughts on this is that I have a better feel for alignment and eveness of my draw. I minimize torque and draw limbs evenly if I point, then draw. If I raise my bow as I draw, the believe there are too many simultaneous "moving parts".
I also firmly believe that shooting with that style (bow up before drawing) is more conducive to whitetail hunting. It takes less movement in the presence of deer than a swing draw. Plus you have a bit of cover for your face when the bow and quiver are up and between you and the deer.

As a new trad shooter, you really should practice "blind bale" shooting. Step back from the bale about 6 feet, point the bow, CLOSE YOUR EYES and shoot. Concentrate only on your form and don't worry about where your arrows hit.

Finally...Have you tried any tuning adjustments? Brace height, nock height, nock tightness?
 
I'm not sure what I'm looking for either! Mainly just reading all the stuff about picking up bad habits quickly I figured I'd throw up a video to see if there was anything obvious- I taught myself to shoot my compound so was thinking I may have learned something wrong already. Thank you for all of your thoughts. I think I definitely moved a bit fast, partly because of the camera being on. The too- tight grip is something to work on as well for sure. I think I'm going to get a horse stall mat and make a backstop, I'm shooting towards my neighbors garage so don't want to go poking holes in things on that side of the fence if I miss!

Have not messed with much in the form of tuning at all at this point. Honestly I haven't much with my compound as well, need to learn more about that for sure (for both).
 
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I can only tell you what has worked well for me for 50 yrs. I like to shoot split fingers w/a tab and anchor middle finger in the corner of my mouth. Shoot close to your target for awhile. Relax and try not to hurry the shot. Do you have any trad shooters close by to shoot with? I would just shoot for awhile and get comfortable w/your bow before I worried about tuning arrows to it.
 
Blacksmith said:
I can only tell you what has worked well for me for 50 yrs. I like to shoot split fingers w/a tab and anchor middle finger in the corner of my mouth. Shoot close to your target for awhile. Relax and try not to hurry the shot. Do you have any trad shooters close by to shoot with? I would just shoot for awhile and get comfortable w/your bow before I worried about tuning arrows to it.
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I was shooting 3 under with a tab that's split here, need to try out split finger soon. The tab felt strange-a bit loose/clunky, could just be the newness of it, but one of the reasons I want to try a glove


Unfortunately nobody I know shoots a bow (of any sort). Other than you lot. But I don't really "know" any of you all in real life. Need to fix that and hoping to attend a gathering or trad event soon
 
The first thing that jumps out at me is your lack of back tension. You definitely have a little collapse and pluck on your release. Your release should just be a relaxation of your fingers while increasing bank tension (squeezing your shoulder blades together) Tom Clum touches on it a little in this video.
 
GCTerpfan said:
The first thing that jumps out at me is your lack of back tension. You definitely have a little collapse and pluck on your release. Your release should just be a relaxation of your fingers while increasing bank tension (squeezing your shoulder blades together) Tom Clum touches on it a little in this video.
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Thank you. I'm still figuring back tension out, having shot compound with a wrist/trigger style release, and definitely felt like I was "letting go" of the string instead of relaxing- I think this is what you mean by plucking. Appreciate it.
 
3 recommendations:

I agree with Allegheny Tom that your grip on the bow looks a little too hard. Try this-rest the bow in the meat of your hand between the thumb & forefinger, then allow your forefinger and ring finger to LOOSELY wrap around the front of the grip-the other 2 fingers stay loose, & are "just along for the ride." That's plenty of grip for a recurve of ANY draw weight, IMO.

I agree with GCTerpfan that it looks like you're "plucking" the string on release. I believe that this comes from a conscious thought to "let go of the string." EVERY Trad Bow shooter is guilty of it! ;) Instead of thinking that, just think about relaxing the draw hand. Practice this by holding the bow, (or pretend to hold the bow,) then without drawing the string, move your draw hand as if you were drawing to your anchor. Then, make it go limp, & you'll notice that the fingers drop, then the hand drops at it's connection with the wrist. THAT is the "feeling" that you're looking for. Believe me, those fingers will always get out of the way of the string-no assistance from you is needed! ;)

Finally, if you're concerned about sending one into your neighbor's garage-start by shooting at the target 3 steps away from it (that's right, 3 whole steps!) Pick a teenie weenie spot on the target, & put the arrow there. Repeat 6 times or so, then move back 1 step at a time & do the same. Repeat until you get to your max distance. You're working on 2 things doing this-your overall form, and you're "programming your brain" to move your body to put the arrow where you are looking. I start every practice session with this little drill.
 
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A rotational draw will help the back tension a lot. That’s the first thing I noticed. When I first started shooting trad getting that draw, and back tension down really improved my shooting. I think Arne Moe has some videos about the rotational draw
 
will4554 said:
A rotational draw will help the back tension a lot. That’s the first thing I noticed. When I first started shooting trad getting that draw, and back tension down really improved my shooting. I think Arne Moe has some videos about the rotational draw
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I agree with your post but am firmly in the camp with @Allegheny Tom that having the bow pointed on target is the better route for bowhunting. At least it is for me. ;)
 
@thedutchtouch I agree with what the others have already mentioned about alignment, bow hand, back tension and string pluck. That may sound like you are off to a horrible start but you definitely are not. Your shot already looks way better than a lot of folks. I also agree it will be worth the time and then some to watch Tom Clum's stuff and Clay's stuff is good too. One place I will differ slightly is I am not a big fan of completely blank bale shooting. It does have merit for sure if you have a hard time controlling your focus while developing your form and shot process. I prefer to cover the target face with a piece of cardboard and either put a dime size dot on it or will put 1" painters tape on it to make a crosshair depending on what I am working on. If I am just working on release and back tension I use the dot. I use the crosshair to clean up alignment, grip or torque issues. I am less concerned about hitting the aim point as I am where my groups are landing in relation to it for the alignment/grip stuff. Release work and back tension I 100% want the arrow on the dot but all my focus is on breaking a clean shot. Also agree with shooting from 10 feet rather than ten yards for a while. Be cognizant of feel, you will know when it starts feeling right, have fun and dont over shoot. Shooting a compound is like shooting a rifle, entirely different than shooting a stick bow. You have to get in tune with a stickbow and that takes time and repetition.
 
And remember, your not relaxing your fingers. As you pull through with your large back muscles, only relax the back of your hand. Don't over think it. As Tom said, get in front of a bale and close your eyes. Feel the shot. Start and end your session with blind bale. Allow your brain to ingrain every shot. It's a weird but good feeling of loss of conscious control.
 
It's said that the Japanese and others, when learning to shoot the bow, aren't even allowed to put a target on the "face". You must learn to shoot before learning to "direct". My mentor made me spend upwards a half hour of blind bale. You must learn how to feel the shot. Taking away visual input.
 
So, this is going to get me in trouble...but I suggest not focusing on form. I think form is fine tuning. I always suggest that beginners focus on hands and eyes. Anchor, grip and sight picture.

As so many said, shoot close to the target. Eyes closed at first. Feel the draw, anchor, and the bow hand is loose...release.

Do that a bunch, until it becomes natural feeling.

The rest (hip position, back tension, feet distance, arm position, etc) is fine tuning for target shooting. In hunting, that changes for every shot. But, if your eyes and hands are in sync you can hit the vitals.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
 
always89y said:
So, this is going to get me in trouble...but I suggest not focusing on form. I think form is fine tuning. I always suggest that beginners focus on hands and eyes. Anchor, grip and sight picture.

As so many said, shoot close to the target. Eyes closed at first. Feel the draw, anchor, and the bow hand is loose...release.

Do that a bunch, until it becomes natural feeling.

The rest (hip position, back tension, feet distance, arm position, etc) is fine tuning for target shooting. In hunting, that changes for every shot. But, if your eyes and hands are in sync you can hit the vitals.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


All of it is "form".

Just different parts.
 
Thanks everyone for continuing to weigh in. I went down a shooting form YouTube rabbit hole-tom clum sr did a talk in Kalamazoo in 2020 ish, that recording was some good stuff for me learning the difference between back tension and shoulder drawing. I am 100% using my arm/should we right now instead of my back, I think this will be my main area of focus for good form and not setting myself up for shoulder injuries later in life.

I also wonder if the instinctive shooting comes a bit more naturally because I've been shooting an ez-v sight on my compound since basically when I started hunting.

Also, all this talk of shooting from 5-10 feet means I can definitely shoot in the house, so I'm going to go ahead and get one of those horse stall mats and build myself a portable frame/backstop. Perhaps I'll leave it in the back yard, perhaps I'll use it indoors occasionally. Yes I'm a bit nuts, but newly single and flinging arrows inside my house appeals a lot more than going out to bars lol
 
thedutchtouch said:
Thanks everyone for continuing to weigh in. I went down a shooting form YouTube rabbit hole-tom clum sr did a talk in Kalamazoo in 2020 ish, that recording was some good stuff for me learning the difference between back tension and shoulder drawing. I am 100% using my arm/should we right now instead of my back, I think this will be my main area of focus for good form and not setting myself up for shoulder injuries later in life.

I also wonder if the instinctive shooting comes a bit more naturally because I've been shooting an ez-v sight on my compound since basically when I started hunting.

Also, all this talk of shooting from 5-10 feet means I can definitely shoot in the house, so I'm going to go ahead and get one of those horse stall mats and build myself a portable frame/backstop. Perhaps I'll leave it in the back yard, perhaps I'll use it indoors occasionally. Yes I'm a bit nuts, but newly single and flinging arrows inside my house appeals a lot more than going out to bars lol
Click to expand...

I suggest you stick to the To Clum rabbit hole. I would highly recommend his solid archery mechanics course also. Honestly, if you try to get your advice from a group of trad archers we will lead you in circles. We all do it a little differently.
 
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