Ways to improve groups at short distances, without shooting at long distances

[coolhand78]

Hey all - Not sure if this is a stupid question or not, but I've been shooting in my backyard 2 or 3 times a week all summer, with the hopes of being more dialed in by now, since the opener is almost here. However, my backyard is the only place I can regularly shoot, and not really more than 30 yards. I was hoping my groups would have tightened up by now. At 25 yards I'm shooting 5" groups (not all bad shots, but I'd love to put 80% of arrows inside of 3" or less at 25y). I've nock tuned, checked cam timing, I think my spine is good, paper tuned, and bare shaft tune is ok (I guess, lol). I just feel like I have too much inconsistency, and perhaps I could iron that out by shooting at longer distances...

HOWEVER, I'm not in a situation where I can shoot longer distances. Does anyone know of any good practice strategies to tighten groups at 30 yards or less, without shooting at 40-50-60? Mostly I've been trying to concentrate on form and shot process. I've also started keeping an "archery diary" (lol), even plotting each of my shots.

I would also welcome any other suggestions from people who have solved mysterious inconsistency issues. One possible thing is that I believe my draw length may be 1/2" too long, but I'm nervous about messing with that now that the season is here; and although I have one of those cheap portable bow presses, I've never done any work on my string or cables.

Any advice would be appreciated!!!

 

[TNbowhunter]

Just my two cents: If you’re shooting a bunch but not seeing improvements, then you’re either limited by your equipment or you’re not intentional enough about practicing. If you think it’s equipment and you haven’t fixed it yourself, sounds like it’s time to head to your local archery shop for a check-up; that’s time and money well spent. If it’s a “you” thing, then I suggest being more intentional about practicing specific parts of the shot (e.g., blank bale shooting) instead of just flinging arrows at the target. My old coach used to say, “practice doesn’t make perfect; practice makes permanent. Only perfect practice makes perfect.” Point being, it’s not just reps that drive performance improvement—you need to be doing the right reps if you want to see those gains!
Keep practicing until you’re more worried about breaking your nocks and splitting your arrows at 20 yards than you are worried about missing—holy smokes will that bring a revolutionary level of confidence to the tree stand with you!
One last thing: try French tuning at 10, 20, and 30 yards. That is my litmus test for how my bow is tuned.

 

[Halfstep]

There are several factors that can affect group sizing. But to give some helpful and useable advice, pay attention to how you aim. Take a black marker and make a 4-inch circle with a thick outer ring and use that for a 20-yard aiming point. Do a 6-inch circle with a thick outer ring for 30 yards. Learn to aim within the circle and the size of the circle will allow you to float around and stay within you circle most of the time. If you can't hold within the circle most of the time, just increase the size of the circle until you get the right size to allow for a pin float while staying within the circle most of the time. As time goes on, you can reduce the circle size as your aiming skills improve. This will tighten up your groups and help develop a steadier aim.

It is a mistake to make a small dot and try to hold your pin on top of it and you have a natural float and since you can't hold the pin on the small dot most of the time, this causes tension, and the pucker factor goes up. A larger circle that allows for float will reduce aiming anxiety allowing for consistent shooting.

There is a big difference mentally between aiming "in" something as opposed to aiming "on" something.

 

[Black Titan]

Check out post #8 in this thread on ArcheryTalk. Nuts&Bolts has a lot of knowledge and has helped tons of people.

I did do these drills, albeit not to the extremes he mentions as far as number of shots. But for a couple weeks I was drilling that one hole 2-3 times a week at 2 yards, then moved back to 4 yards, 5 yards, eventually working my way up to 20. I noticed a big difference in my 20 yard groups as well as my confidence in shooting.

Zeroing Bow/sight ...???

When a rifle is setup for a long range competition shooting with a scope it is common to place the rifle tightly in a vice and fire... Once the perfect setup is reached, you remove the rifle from the vice and shoot. If you can't achieve the same accuracy then you know it is you that suck and...

www.archerytalk.com

ETA: good points made above by TNbowhunter and Halfstep. And to echo what TNBowhunter said, make sure you're shooting with proper form before advancing to this method i linked to, or else you'll end up drilling bad form into your muscle memory. Go to your local bow shop, have their coach/trainer watch you shoot, and adjust your form. Nail that down then try the stuff in the link i posted.

BT

 

[dramsey25]

Watching Dudley’s school of nock on YouTube REALLY helped me make some great strides in my shooting. Then the guy from “shot IQ” his name is escaping me is really good. When my groups start to expand in the yard I go back to his stuff on slowing down, aiming, “doing it the right way”, and pulling thru the shot, and then things tighten right back up.

 

[Horn]

Joel Turner is the shot IQ guy

 

[chanson_roland]

Hey all - Not sure if this is a stupid question or not, but I've been shooting in my backyard 2 or 3 times a week all summer, with the hopes of being more dialed in by now, since the opener is almost here. However, my backyard is the only place I can regularly shoot, and not really more than 30 yards. I was hoping my groups would have tightened up by now. At 25 yards I'm shooting 5" groups (not all bad shots, but I'd love to put 80% of arrows inside of 3" or less at 25y). I've nock tuned, checked cam timing, I think my spine is good, paper tuned, and bare shaft tune is ok (I guess, lol). I just feel like I have too much inconsistency, and perhaps I could iron that out by shooting at longer distances...

HOWEVER, I'm not in a situation where I can shoot longer distances. Does anyone know of any good practice strategies to tighten groups at 30 yards or less, without shooting at 40-50-60? Mostly I've been trying to concentrate on form and shot process. I've also started keeping an "archery diary" (lol), even plotting each of my shots.

I would also welcome any other suggestions from people who have solved mysterious inconsistency issues. One possible thing is that I believe my draw length may be 1/2" too long, but I'm nervous about messing with that now that the season is here; and although I have one of those cheap portable bow presses, I've never done any work on my string or cables.

Any advice would be appreciated!!!

Try this video. I've started it at the point where you can methodically break down your shot process. I've got Joel Turner's book, but for me, Phil Mendoza's Alpha Bowhunting system is quicker, easier, and best adapted for real-world hunting.

This video helped me cure target panic, tighten my groups at close range, but also become pretty consistent out to 60 yards.

 

[coolhand78]

Hey everyone - thanks so much for sharing your advice. I will definitely check out the videos and other resources you've shared. At this point, I feel comfortable taking a deer at 25y and in, but I just WANT to be better than that. To me, my gold standard for how I want to shoot is 2" groups at 20y, 3" at 30y, etc...

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[bowhunthard88]

As mentioned, dial in your form (if it's not), as only "perfect practice makes perfect". I wouldn't stress over the bow to much at 20-30 yds., although I'm completely OCD about my equipment, but you should still be able to shoot decent groups at those ranges even with an "un-tuned" bow... Focus on the fundamentals and utilizing them properly to "perfection", maintain full and concentrated focus (one of the most difficult things, don't fall into shooting reps by rote), and trust your pin float and follow through! The only bow related thing; non-related to tuning, is balance/weight; because a properly balanced/weighted bow will help minimize pin float area and erratic tendencies. French tuning is good. For my personal focus; as to counter some other advice (realized by me during trad shooting), my personal focus is better with a "smaller" aiming point as my intent is better directed and maintained (obviously find what works for you there, because that may aggravate target panic on others) and MY group size is directly impacted by "target" size. Stay focused, intentional, and smooth (as much as possible) throughout every single aspect of your shot sequence (everything should flow)! If you haven't gathered lol, much of this is as much mental as it is physical. Actually talking yourself completely through each shot cycle helps (not out loud, in the woods lmao), and I believe Joel Turner promotes this.

Follow through completely, no peeking. Be aware of release hand location after release, no plucking. Try to stay "in-line" on the follow through. Maintain dynamic (pulling/pushing pressure) toward the target at all times, do not hold statically. Try to focus the bow load/pressure in your shoulders. Make contact with the release trigger intentionally before breaking the shot, and then puuull it through to the break. Contact, not pressure, with/on the string. Grip/hold is big, make sure it's consistent, and without pressure on the heel of your hand.

Are your group shapes consistent? Or are they primarily vertical, or horizontal?

Good luck, and enjoy the process!

 

[krub6b]

It's gonna be real hard to find consistency with a bow that doesn't fit you. Make the bow fit you and then start taking single shots at a blank target face, you can do this with a piece of cardboard in front of your regular target or throw a trash bag over it. Be very methodical and consistent. Run through your physical and mental process each time. There are a lot of solid resources already referenced for you to refer to to refine your process if needed, but developing consistency starts with a tuned bow that fits you, this may involve tuning the bow to you rather than tuning the bow to be perfect.

 

[coolhand78]

Are your group shapes consistent? Or are they primarily vertical, or horizontal?

I appreciate all the words of advice. Certainly, my focus has been form and process. I am still treating this like a journey - I'll get better over time.

As far as "group shape" they sometimes are slightly diagonal (low left to high right) or occasionally somewhat vertical.

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[coolhand78]

It's gonna be real hard to find consistency with a bow that doesn't fit you. Make the bow fit you and then start taking single shots at a blank target face, you can do this with a piece of cardboard in front of your regular target or throw a trash bag over it. Be very methodical and consistent. Run through your physical and mental process each time. There are a lot of solid resources already referenced for you to refer to to refine your process if needed, but developing consistency starts with a tuned bow that fits you, this may involve tuning the bow to you rather than tuning the bow to be perfect.

Yeah, in the off season I'll grow the balls to press my bow and adjust my cables/string. I'm also considering a handheld release. I hate my Tru-Fire Hardcore Max.

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[Horn]

If you're draw is only a 1/2" long I wouldn't fret. Sure, fix that. It should really only effect you if you're shooting up or down hill. If you're way over extended you'll probably get more solid on flat ground because your maxed out so to speak. You can't really physically get into a different position at full draw. You need that room on off kilter shots, to adjust but not flat footed on flat terrain

I haven't taken shot IQ but I would summerize everything I've ever heard about it as " think of something other than your pin / pin being on target" . For me, this equals going through a mental checklist. Grip, anchor, elbow, still on target. Good. Shoot. Pretty sure that's all a clicker does for compound shooters, distracts you. Maybe different for the trad guys but I'm grumpy enough to call a click a crutch today... rant over, better get some caffeine and food.

Good luck with your groups and your season!

Edit : Turner likes clickers. He's the guy behind the onnex-c

 

[bowhunthard88]

I appreciate all the words of advice. Certainly, my focus has been form and process. I am still treating this like a journey - I'll get better over time.

As far as "group shape" they sometimes are slightly diagonal (low left to high right) or occasionally somewhat vertical.

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The reason that I asked, is that if it's typically only one axis or the other, there could be specific reasons lol.

 

[coolhand78]

The reason that I asked, is that if it's typically only one axis or the other, there could be specific reasons lol.

Yeah, I know my group shape should be indicative of something... I just don't know what, lol.

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[Horn]

Have you tried drawing with your eyes closed to check peep location? Could be that your struggling with your head alignment because your peep isn't where it should be, or isn't the size you prefer with your scope housing. If nothing else it only takes a second and is free

 

[Weldabeast]

How many arrows do u shoot during ur sessions? What is ur bow draw weight

 

[coolhand78]

How many arrows do u shoot during ur sessions? What is ur bow draw weight

Usually just 20 arrows in a session, because that's all I really have time for in the morning before heading to work.

I shoot an Elite Impulse 31, 27.5" draw length (but currently looking like it's 28"), 60lbs but dialed down to 55.

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[BTaylor]

There are several factors that can affect group sizing. But to give some helpful and useable advice, pay attention to how you aim. Take a black marker and make a 4-inch circle with a thick outer ring and use that for a 20-yard aiming point. Do a 6-inch circle with a thick outer ring for 30 yards. Learn to aim within the circle and the size of the circle will allow you to float around and stay within you circle most of the time. If you can't hold within the circle most of the time, just increase the size of the circle until you get the right size to allow for a pin float while staying within the circle most of the time. As time goes on, you can reduce the circle size as your aiming skills improve. This will tighten up your groups and help develop a steadier aim.

It is a mistake to make a small dot and try to hold your pin on top of it and you have a natural float and since you can't hold the pin on the small dot most of the time, this causes tension, and the pucker factor goes up. A larger circle that allows for float will reduce aiming anxiety allowing for consistent shooting.

There is a big difference mentally between aiming "in" something as opposed to aiming "on" something.

I disagree with this but with a caveat. With a compound I shoot my best when I have a small dot, dime size or slightly smaller, to aim at. The only way this works if though is if you can forget your aim once you have aimed. In other words get the pin on the spot then stop thinking about holding the pin perfectly on the spot and turn your focus to breaking a smooth clean shot. It's a big part of what Joel teaches. I learned it years ago when I was a kid shooting air rifle tournaments.

 

[Halfstep]

I disagree with this but with a caveat. With a compound I shoot my best when I have a small dot, dime size or slightly smaller, to aim at. The only way this works if though is if you can forget your aim once you have aimed. In other words get the pin on the spot then stop thinking about holding the pin perfectly on the spot and turn your focus to breaking a smooth clean shot. It's a big part of what Joel teaches. I learned it years ago when I was a kid shooting air rifle tournaments.

This is true but with considerations. One is if you are using a target sight and powered scope. A powered lens will show your movement a lot more than an open pin sight. This can cause a person to freak out and get all puckered up trying to shoot.

I have shot with target sights a lot in the past and learned to overcome the pucker factor by aiming within a circle that allows some float room. I have just adopted this technique and use it on my open pin hunting sights as well as it works very well especially if one hasn't shot much in a while and not holding as steady. You should give it a try sometime and see how it works. It works wonders for shooting tight groups.