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WE Steps with knaider/swaider - this can't be the easy way to do this?

kyvaaoh

New Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Messages
16
There are a lot of things that are really unnerving about this 'system.' I'm reasonably new to this, trying to figure it out, and haven't ever used anything else like climbing sticks or even a lock-on stand more than 1-2x.

There's a lot of this that doesn't make sense to me, but the big ones are:

1. To get my knees up and around the step, I have to give myself enough lineman's rope that I'm unstable side to side. Or when I pop up, the rope goes loose and drops to below hip height on the tree.

2. On the way down, getting the 'biner back on the crossbar, and then getting the strap to come tight to find a step, feels like reaching around off a cliff edge for a foothold.

3. Catching the knaider hooks on the crossbar, and wrangling the carabiner on and off, seems like a tussle every time.

I don't know a single soul around here who works with anything like this, and every video I watch, dudes are just like, 'yeah, it's easy and simple! :05 and I'm at twenty feet!' Not me.

Is this considerably harder than using other methods? How long did it take you to get it down enough to feel comfortable? Other than 'practice a lot,' do you have any other suggestions for figuring this out? I'm really frustrated because I've taken a long time to assemble all the parts of this, and get the time to work on it, and now that I'm doing it it seems like it's a long way off before I'm going to feel comfortable enough of this not to stink of fear just getting to 12-14 feet.
 
It gets easier. Can almost run up the tree after a while.


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I would just knaider up for a little while to practice, as the longer swaider is unnerving at first. The southern ground podcast host ended upside down with the method. I slipped on a rainy day, and just used the knaider afterwards. I sticky taped my crossbar for more purchase also. I had to change to sticks, as my fingers freeze tyingropes in Wisconsin.
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Long as I've got y'all's attention, another question:

Do you wear gloves and sleeves, every time? I'm getting pretty tore up on tree bark.
 
There are a lot of things that are really unnerving about this 'system.' I'm reasonably new to this, trying to figure it out, and haven't ever used anything else like climbing sticks or even a lock-on stand more than 1-2x.

There's a lot of this that doesn't make sense to me, but the big ones are:

1. To get my knees up and around the step, I have to give myself enough lineman's rope that I'm unstable side to side. Or when I pop up, the rope goes loose and drops to below hip height on the tree.

2. On the way down, getting the 'biner back on the crossbar, and then getting the strap to come tight to find a step, feels like reaching around off a cliff edge for a foothold.

3. Catching the knaider hooks on the crossbar, and wrangling the carabiner on and off, seems like a tussle every time.

I don't know a single soul around here who works with anything like this, and every video I watch, dudes are just like, 'yeah, it's easy and simple! :05 and I'm at twenty feet!' Not me.

Is this considerably harder than using other methods? How long did it take you to get it down enough to feel comfortable? Other than 'practice a lot,' do you have any other suggestions for figuring this out? I'm really frustrated because I've taken a long time to assemble all the parts of this, and get the time to work on it, and now that I'm doing it it seems like it's a long way off before I'm going to feel comfortable enough of this not to stink of fear just getting to 12-14 feet.
Number 1 is the reason I started attaching my tether as soon as I leave the ground and move it up ahead of myself on the way up. Eliminates the unstable feeling.
 
Have you tried the Cain method or [mention]boyne bowhunter [/mention] modified version? The latter is tethered in tight the whole time.



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Long as I've got y'all's attention, another question:

Do you wear gloves and sleeves, every time? I'm getting pretty tore up on tree bark.
Not much of an issue with that for me. My hands are mostly on the linesman rope as I am climbing.
 
Long as I've got y'all's attention, another question:

Do you wear gloves and sleeves, every time? I'm getting pretty tore up on tree bark.

I don’t think I touch the tree anymore unless setting a step. Took me a while to get in the habit of holding onto the lineman’s though.


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Have you tried the Cain method or [mention]boyne bowhunter [/mention] modified version? The latter is tethered in tight the whole time.



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Thanks a bunch, Frank. I think I'd seen this and the Cain once before, but had forgotten about them. I'll try this tonight. Hope it still works if my dog won't bring me a stick.
 
i feel u on the issues... i walk a ways into public so i want a light setup... i currently climb with we steps and k/s but i still have the same issues as you sometimes even when it seems like ive gotten the step connected well, itll wobble a bit... i repel down and i climb with my tether so im not really in danger of falling , it can feel sketchy... i am going to try one sticking and see which method i like better... i tried one stickong before but a) i wasnt repelling and 1 sticking down sucks and b) i didnt have a cam cleat and 1 sticking also sucks with buckles.....so i dont think i gave it a fair shot...
 
I had similar issues when I started. Trusting your lineman's and leaning back into it is important and takes some getting used too. I would also recommend placing your step about 6" lower for now also. It made a huge difference to me to place mine a little lower and just get used to the movements and not worry about the lost height. Once you have gotten your rhythm down you can work on stretching it out for max height but not stretching out to attach the knaider and swaider makes everything feel more stable for me.

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I wear rubber palmed gloves for a good grip. You have to give yourself some slack on the linesman to allow the knee to pass the step. Keep your toe into the tree and use the linesman in your hands, when you step up advance the linesman up as you go and you'll avoid the linesman going below your waist. If you don't have any experience with the linesman you should take your time with this method. Also remember the lineman is positioning not fall prevention. Until you are fluid and balanced I wouldn't use more than one step for practice..... Set the linesman, hook up the swaider, step up and advance the linesman, attach the knaider step up and advance the linesman. Now go back down. Keep the linesman high and set the knaider I use both my hands as a squeeze when stepping down into the knaider, get balanced then hook up the swaider. When using this method I have zip ties on my cross bar on my steps that I wrap with vet tape. That keeps the hooks from sliding if your step should tilt. I also found the hooks a little to deep for my liking so I trimmed them back now it's easier to unhook them as I advance.
 
Love to climb on WE Steps but descending always seemed sketchy with any aider system - until I started rappelling and now it’s the only way to get down.

I have a full rappel line or an alternate 16’ tether that I can use and basically just ‘rappel’ to the next stick without feeling like I’m stepping off a cliff.

Could never get comfortable with Swaider but using the modified Cain method and tether above me I can get +4 ft/step with just my I aider depending on how high I plan on going.

I feel safe with the tether as my safety line and not messing with the lineman’s belt actually makes it feels easier and arguably safer cus I’m not messing with it the whole way up.


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Hey, yall--
I just wanted to say thank you for all your help. I put a bunch of these ideas to use, especially the Modified Cane / Boyne method, and I had my first real saddle hunt last night. I found out some interesting things about drawing my bow on the weak side; I saw three turkeys and six deer; I learned a lesson or two about picking trees and spots; but most of all, I feel much more comfortable with my gear now. So thank you all.
 
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