Weaker Spined Arrows

[JoyRyd]

I removed this from another thread and started new here:

My hunting bow shoots a GT 400, 30", with 250 gr up front (100 grain brass insert and 150 head) weak......48# bow, 29” DL, TAW 615 gr. In fact, I slo-mo videoed my arrow flight and it scared me to death! From 20 yds, the arrow looks like a wet noodle and hits the target 5" nock left, then whips around for what seems like 5 minutes. It's really something to see in slow motion!
I just can't imagine trying to go down 2 spines to a 600 with the same weight up front. It would probably snap in half! Also, not good for penetration in the hunting woods.....not even close.
I thought I was way out of the norm, so I shot my father's bow, 46# one piece Widow, with the same arrow/results. Then, I tried it out of my Firefly 62" longbow, 50#, and had slightly less weak results, but the arrow still flew like a noodle! I would like to see some video of these 600 spine arrows off of a 40# plus bow.

I'm not saying it's not true, but I'm very skeptical.

Each bow has it's own flavor for sure. Have a great day and thanks for the discussion. This topic has always intrigued me!

 

[JoyRyd]

I can’t upload the video. So, I took a couple screen shots. They tell the story.
20 yard shot, no wind, bare shaft.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I am no expert, but I shoot a longbow (ASL), a Northern Mist Classic, 56# at 28 and my high FOC set up with carbon arrows is a 600 spine Easton 6.5 cut 28.25 carbon to carbon. I use a 190 Grizzly single bevel up front on a 100 grain steel adapter screwed into a 100 grain Ethics stainless steel insert. I use 4 fletch A&A feather fletching, 2 1/2 inch slight left helical. I use a 1/4 inch strip of arrow reflector wrap about 3/8 ahead of the feathers for a turbulator. Total arrow weight is right at 650 grains and FOC is over 30%. This set up, out of my bow, shoots these perfectly bare shaft tuned. Fletched, these fly like darts and are nearly silent out of my bow.

I think a bow's degree of center shot has a lot to do with finding the proper spine, and also the bow's shot cycle, i.e., the dynamics of the way the power is delivered to the arrow shaft by the limbs.

 

[JoyRyd]

I am no expert, but I shoot a longbow (ASL), a Northern Mist Classic, 56# at 28 and my high FOC set up with carbon arrows is a 600 spine Easton 6.5 cut 28.25 carbon to carbon. I use a 190 Grizzly single bevel up front on a 100 grain steel adapter screwed into a 100 grain Ethics stainless steel insert. I use 4 fletch A&A feather fletching, 2 1/2 inch slight left helical. I use a 1/4 inch strip of arrow reflector wrap about 3/8 ahead of the feathers for a turbulator. Total arrow weight is right at 650 grains and FOC is over 30%. This set up, out of my bow, shoots these perfectly bare shaft tuned. Fletched, these fly like darts and are nearly silent out of my bow.

I think a bow's degree of center shot has a lot to do with finding the proper spine, and also the bow's shot cycle, i.e., the dynamics of the way the power is delivered to the arrow shaft by the limbs.

Is there any chance you can get some in-flight pictures like above? I really want to see this in action. Thanks, and have great day,.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I'll try to get some, but I don't want to skewer my phone, lol. I don't currently have any bare shafts for this set up.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Ok, here is the best I can come up with. It doesn't help that the arrow is all black either. But you should be able to see that the blur is very straight.

 

[GCTerpfan]

The bow I shot last year was a homemade recurve that was 45# at my 30" draw and was cut to center. I was shooting off of a Hoyt Super rest that moved the arrow a little shy of center and shot GT 400 spine arrows cut just shy of 31" with 300 gr up front. Here is an earlier thread of 500 spine setups: https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/500-spine-arrows-tradbow.30817/ You can see that many of the are bows are 50+ pounds.

I think a lot of people underestimate the effect of draw length and the center cut of a bow on arrow tune. I know that I did until I started looking closely at the set ups in the thread I linked. Black Widows are cut past center (either 1/8" or 3/16", cant remember) this will require a significantly stiffer arrow then a bow cut shy of center like @NMSbowhunter ASL. I'm guessing the other two bows you shot are also cut to center or even past center. That, along with your 29" draw will require you shoot a stiffer arrow.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Yes, my arrow needs to be limber to flex around the riser. An ASL uses archer's paradox and the arrow shaft snakes around the riser and straightens out pretty fast. A center shot bow needs a much stiffer arrow and archer's paradox works against you.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I remembered wrong on the spines for those arrows. They are 500's not 600's.

 

[JoyRyd]

Both the BW bows are cut 3/16 past center. I'm not certain what the center cut is on my longbow, but I'm certain it's at least center.

To your point @GCTerpfan : I'm starting to realize that the center cut on a a given bow/riser is a major factor when trying to determine arrow spine. I'm embarrassed to say that I have shot stick since I was 12 years old.....and, it has taken 43 years for me to realize that my bareshaft arrows were not as "perfect" as I once preached....or, thought! LOL I appreciate you all taking the time to comment. I guess we should never be too old to learn!

FWIW: My current/new setup.....300 spine, Sirius Apollo, 29.5", 100 gr insert, 300 gr head, 4 x 2.5" feathers, 4" wrap, luminoks, (TAW 715 gr), Black Widow PSAX 62", 48# @ 28"...so around 50# at my 29" draw (true, not estimated)". Chrono's @ 171 fps (10 arrow average). I wish I knew how to post a video of this arrow flying. When I slo-mo this setup, the arrow has recovered from paradox at +/- 8 yds. past riser....and does not waver the rest of the way downrange. I videoed this flight at 35 yds.......sure is pretty to watch! LOL This should be an elk thumping machine!

I'd love to hear from others who have found themselves in my shoes.

 

[BTaylor]

Shooting 65/70 doug fir shafts with 150 up front and 3- 4.25" turkey feathers on the back with some sort of 11/32 glue on white nock that I have a bag full of from back in the 90's. Fly beautifully. Bow is a 52# stalker ACS longbow.