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What makes you safe.

Thogg

New Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
23
Being a rock climber with multiple big walls, a kayaker with numerous class 5 descents and the ability to execute Swift water rescues, and skiing in places where no rescue is coming for you; it is not the number of backups you have or the variety of knots you can tie, or a phone, that will keep you safe.
Your safety is dependent on your ability to execute your system no matter how tired you are in the dark. If you can't tie the 3 or 4 knots you need for saddle hunting perfectly every time with your eyes closed maybe you shouldn't be up there. Your system of ascent and descent needs to follow the same repetitions every time even when an oddity is thrown at you.
Simplicity is safety! The fewer things you have to do the more likely you are to execute them perfectly every time.
I like backups, but they are not redundancies just to throw more equipment in the system. I tie an Alpine butterfly and hook it to my tether carabiner. My tether prussik becomes my autoblock for the rappel then the butterfly gets unhooked and untied.
I haven't developed a menomoic for saddle hunting yet. I had a great one for kayaking every time I got in my boat I would say helmet, spray skirt, PFD. I would physically check to make sure my helmet was fastened my spray skirt was sealed on the cockpit and my PFD was snug. One day I decided to run my local River solo because it was pumping and I couldn't find anybody to go with me. Instead of putting in at the normal location I did the mile-and-a-half hike so I could run just the class 5. I put on my gear did the hike to the river and jumped in paddled the three miles of Rapids and eddied out right above the class six,unrunable, mess. As I eddie'd out I did a hip flick to steady my boat and watched my helmet go flying into the river. I had never checked my gear. I did multiple things out of the ordinary. That was an expensive lesson never repeated.
 
KISS. keep it as simple as possible. Practice Practice Practice, rinse and repeat. Keep everything in the order you need it, put everything back in the order you need it. Every system has steps, follow the steps and keep your gear in order and know how to use it. The more dangerous the operation the more regimented I become. I am a bit of a risk taker by nature but I'm also focused and deliberate these last two have helped me to navigate some hairy situations. As I get older the reality that I can't push the envelope like I used to is real and I know and respect it. All that and the grace of the good lord, and some s&#t luck.

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I never add backups just to throw more equipment in the system. I recently removed a carabiner from my system and made 1 do the work of 3 carabiners. If that one carabiner fails, which is unlikely, I will fall to the ground. I am going to add a carabiner back for redundancy. If this reasoning is wrong then I don't care. I will add it anyway since is it is my life I am trying to protect.
 
Being a rock climber with multiple big walls, a kayaker with numerous class 5 descents and the ability to execute Swift water rescues, and skiing in places where no rescue is coming for you; it is not the number of backups you have or the variety of knots you can tie, or a phone, that will keep you safe.
Your safety is dependent on your ability to execute your system no matter how tired you are in the dark. If you can't tie the 3 or 4 knots you need for saddle hunting perfectly every time with your eyes closed maybe you shouldn't be up there. Your system of ascent and descent needs to follow the same repetitions every time even when an oddity is thrown at you.
Simplicity is safety! The fewer things you have to do the more likely you are to execute them perfectly every time.
I like backups, but they are not redundancies just to throw more equipment in the system. I tie an Alpine butterfly and hook it to my tether carabiner. My tether prussik becomes my autoblock for the rappel then the butterfly gets unhooked and untied.
I haven't developed a menomoic for saddle hunting yet. I had a great one for kayaking every time I got in my boat I would say helmet, spray skirt, PFD. I would physically check to make sure my helmet was fastened my spray skirt was sealed on the cockpit and my PFD was snug. One day I decided to run my local River solo because it was pumping and I couldn't find anybody to go with me. Instead of putting in at the normal location I did the mile-and-a-half hike so I could run just the class 5. I put on my gear did the hike to the river and jumped in paddled the three miles of Rapids and eddied out right above the class six,unrunable, mess. As I eddie'd out I did a hip flick to steady my boat and watched my helmet go flying into the river. I had never checked my gear. I did multiple things out of the ordinary. That was an expensive lesson never repeated.
Is tying and untying a Prusik and autoblock really keeping it simple? I would carry another less than one ounce cord so the operations would be even simpler.
 
Is tying and untying a Prusik and autoblock really keeping it simple? I would carry another less than one ounce cord so the operations would be even simpler.
I figure if you're hanging from your rappel line on a prusik, you'd want to remove that prusik to facilitate rope retrieval.
 
Mr. bj139 definitely not directed at you. I can tell by your post that you're very organized and have your own system. How ever one does it, it just has to be your system.
My prusik is never untied at hight, just switched from tether to auto block position. I'm always attached to my tether from the ground to hunting height and back to the ground. One thing my experience gives me is the confidence in my equipment. I know that ropes don't fail and the knots I tie do not fail. The biggest Danger I see in saddle hunting is slack in your system.
 
Mr. bj139 definitely not directed at you. I can tell by your post that you're very organized and have your own system. How ever one does it, it just has to be your system.
My prusik is never untied at hight, just switched from tether to auto block position. I'm always attached to my tether from the ground to hunting height and back to the ground. One thing my experience gives me is the confidence in my equipment. I know that ropes don't fail and the knots I tie do not fail. The biggest Danger I see in saddle hunting is slack in your system.
Thanks. I guess there is always a difference between those who are willing to study and determine the safest way to climb and those who just want to be told what to do. I don't like the posts where people say they know nothing and want to be told what to do. The answer is so overwhelming, I never respond to those except maybe to direct them to professional websites that have videos.
 
Theres no such thing as "safe". Its all risk management.
Unless youre hanging by your sneaky sack...

In all seriousness, you're exactly right. 100% of people with the nasty little preexisting condition called life will die. Relatively few of these poor souls will plan it or even plan for it. The inevitability makes some folks reckless and others chickensh×t.

Tapping into the hive mind of thousands of people with hundreds of thousands of hours of experience in not dying while doing the thing you're trying to do makes sense to me, especially since they've been gracious enough to publish their experience. But hey...
 
Nothing makes me 100% safe but I am not worried about 100 % safe I have a hope for life after death. As just as mentioned try to reduce risk, and plan for the inevitable

I have a loaded gun in my hand now. Is that safe? I just missed the nicest buck I ever had a chance at but providence said no

Maybe if I had hunted all my life I wouldn’t get buck fever and miss.
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the sneaky sak is sneaky sneaky sneaky....

Yes, and the point I was trying to make is as hard as we try to be "safe" their are many variables out of our control, and that makes "safety" an illusion. What we do has inherent risks, and education, practice, and experience allows us to make the proper choices to mitigate that risk to the best of our abilities.
 
Nothing makes me 100% safe but I am not worried about 100 % safe I have a hope for life after death. As just as mentioned try to reduce risk, and plan for the inevitable

I have a loaded gun in my hand now. Is that safe? I just missed the nicest buck I ever had a chance at but providence said no

Maybe if I had hunted all my life I wouldn’t get buck fever and miss.
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Hang in there. Maybe his daddy is right behind him.
 
I have found the older I get the less risk I'm willing to accept. Guess that's the reason some old people drive so slow.
 
Guess that's the way it is in a tourist town. LOL
Stockton aint no tourist town. I think it's just that the ole folks up here have been driving these roads since they were just Indian trails and have them memorized. And they keep forgetting that there are more than 7 people living up here now, so you can't just ride straight down the center lane. Road i live on is a 45 and you'll get passed doing 55 if they come from behind or ran off the road if they come from the front. They haven't figured out what the red octogons mean.Theyre insane!!

Anyway, tree climbing. The more I think about it the more I wonder if the risk and the hassle are worth it for most folks. Seems that them who can't kill deer could not kill deer just as well on the ground, and those who can kill manage to kill whether they're climbing or not. I have actually killed more bucks with my feet in the dirt than up in the air.

If you do climb, it makes sense to play by the rules. That said, the rules suck from a convenience standpoint, and we're all about convenience. Saddle hunters like to point out all the safety benefits over stands, but tbh stands are plenty safe if you do it THE WAY YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO. Most folks just don't do it that way. But...neither do most saddle hunters. I don't wear leg loops. I've seen folks with atrocious linemans belt management. Super loose and below the waist. Let he who has not unclipped his linemans to go around a branch raise his hand (found the liar.) Knots get tied poorly or the wrong knot gets used with the wrong material. People space sticks or steps a ridiculous distance, or tie them goofy and have them kick out. Folks overestimate their physical abilities. Folks don't check their carabiner gates. Folks don't tether off before they step up to a platform. Folks dangle all over the place from aiders and end up sideways.

So how safe are ya really compared to the fella who won't wear a safety harness or who only clips in once he's at height?

Smarts is learning from your mistakes. Big smarts is learning from the mistakes of others. Especially when heights are involved, because you may not live to learn from the oversight. But most folks, myself included, has the very male tendency to assume everybody else is an idiot, and that THEY know what's what.

I guess tl,dr...be careful of old folk in cars and try and listen to people who have experience in the climbing industry.
 
I guess tl,dr...be careful of old folk in cars and try and listen to people who have experience in the climbing industry.

I'd add, as equally important if not moreso... "and DON'T listen to people who are not qualified to give advice on climbing gear and techniques - especially if it's from the internet."
 
I'd add, as equally important if not moreso... "and DON'T listen to people who are not qualified to give advice on climbing gear and techniques - especially if it's from the internet."

This is definitely true. I’ve seen people suggest some terrible ideas online. Not just this group but others as well. One prime example was this morning on a deer processing group. There were several people arguing that it works perfectly fine water bathing canned venison. They were adamant they’d been doing that for years and that proved it was perfectly safe. It seems crazy to me that people would argue against safety guidelines and suggest this to a bunch of strangers online. Botulism is no joke.
We live in a world with all this information at our fingertips. I’m in a tree hunting as I type this and I’m still able to access info online. I believe when it comes to something new we owe it to ourselves to research it extensively to understand the risks and what steps must be taken to do it safely.


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I'd add, as equally important if not moreso... "and DON'T listen to people who are not qualified to give advice on climbing gear and techniques - especially if it's from the internet."
Which is pretty much the entire forum! Blind leading the blind with generally the very best of intentions.
 
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