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Who has snorted the Fairy Dust?

jakhammer said:
Ya I am more excited about the process of bare shafting and insert tuning and nock tuning and acheiving perfect arrow flight. I have been bowhunting since 1980 and used to shoot fixed blades, but they always flew way different than my field points, so I switched to mechanicals. I still may shoot mechanicals for whitetails, but want the confidence of a perfectly flying arrow
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Those steps have made a huge difference in my arrow flight. Used to think nock and insert tuning were total bull****. Until I did it. If the bow is in tune and the arrow is right, it will take those holes in paper from a small tear to a bullet hole with a little work.

Had a buddy that wouldn't buy in to it. He comes over to shoot through paper with his bare shaft and is getting about a 3 inch tear. Says "see, it doesn't work." No s***. I told him he was so far out of tune, his arrows look like someone throwing a hotdog down a hallway coming off the bow. No wonder he had to shoot mechanicals because broadheads won't fly. Got him squared away (he had some center shot and cam lean issues) and his arrows were darts. Then we started hand loading with multiple spines and weights. Now he's going north of 650 total arrow weight and shooting Iron Wills next season.

And for the record, I have no problem with folks that shoot mechanicals. I don't get why so many people on both sides get so mad about it. If someone tells me "you're a moron" for what I chose, I'll still sleep at night. I have sound reasoning why I chose what I do. We are all "brothers in arms" in the struggle known as bow hunting. But everyone I know who shoots/shot them does/did so for arrow flight. A distant second was "blood trails." But having a bow in tune and arrows properly built will eliminate reason 1. We can debate reason 2 with merit on both sides.
 
Last Pale Light said:
I went through the process this year. Went from a 400 spine arrow with a 100 gr Slick Trick fixed broadhead with a total weight of 347 grains to a 250 spine with a 75 gr insert, 200 gr GrizzlyStik Samurai and a 24% FOC with a total weight of 614 gr. Haven't shot it through a crono, but it doesn't seem that much slower, and my bow is MUCH quieter and I'm shooting tighter groups to 64 yards. And my broadheads fly and group with my field points. Picture is result of day 1 after hand load was selected and first batch were completed. I'd say they are flying pretty true.


View attachment 43653

Top 3 sight pins from 20 to 40 are pretty close, between 40 and 50 there is a bigger drop. Arrows fly perfect to 64 yards - I just haven't shot them further, but I'm sure they would perform just as well past that. Been hunting since 1996, killed many deer and I've only lost 3 in that time. So I didn't switch because I've lost a bunch of deer. It might be overkill, but I have a lot more confidence in this setup than the old. Things happen. Deer dip, duck, dive, dodge and dip. You might hits ribs. You might hit a shoulder. I like the piece of mind that I have a higher chance of success in those situations. But I also realize a heavy arrow is not a magic bullet. Responsible shots and shot placement are still key for an ethical harvest.
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Good shooting. Might want to invest in some pin nocks, it will keep you from breaking arrows.
 
Last Pale Light said:
Those steps have made a huge difference in my arrow flight. Used to think nock and insert tuning were total bull****. Until I did it. If the bow is in tune and the arrow is right, it will take those holes in paper from a small tear to a bullet hole with a little work.

Had a buddy that wouldn't buy in to it. He comes over to shoot through paper with his bare shaft and is getting about a 3 inch tear. Says "see, it doesn't work." No s***. I told him he was so far out of tune, his arrows look like someone throwing a hotdog down a hallway coming off the bow. No wonder he had to shoot mechanicals because broadheads won't fly. Got him squared away (he had some center shot and cam lean issues) and his arrows were darts. Then we started hand loading with multiple spines and weights. Now he's going north of 650 total arrow weight and shooting Iron Wills next season.

And for the record, I have no problem with folks that shoot mechanicals. I don't get why so many people on both sides get so mad about it. If someone tells me "you're a moron" for what I chose, I'll still sleep at night. I have sound reasoning why I chose what I do. We are all "brothers in arms" in the struggle known as bow hunting. But everyone I know who shoots/shot them does/did so for arrow flight. A distant second was "blood trails." But having a bow in tune and arrows properly built will eliminate reason 1. We can debate reason 2 with merit on both sides.
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Are you using an arrow square like Lumenok makes to square both ends of your shaft then your insert after you install it?
 
raisins said:
Are you using an arrow square like Lumenok makes to square both ends of your shaft then your insert after you install it?
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Absolutely. Square both ends, "rough up" the inside of the inset end with a wire brush from gun cleaning kit, clean thoroughly with denatured alcohol, use a slow cure epoxy on Ethics Archery 75 grain insert - weighed and shaved to exactly 75 grains. Then I spin them with a broadhead and make sure the insert is straight with no wobble at the tip before it cures. Mark the insert and shaft, let it sit. Once they cure, I shoot bare through paper and nock tune. Mark the nock and shaft, clean vane area with denatured alcohol, apply wrap, prep vane with AAE prep pen, and glue on vanes. Once those cure, I number every arrow, shoot with field point out to 60 yards and look for any that don't hit/fly. Then I shoot broadheads out to 60. This last dozen, I had none that wouldn't fly, and they are all true with broadheads out to 60+ yards.

Just my experience, but even with my old setup, I've never had to "broadhead tune" using this method. It starts with a bare shaft coming off a square bow dead straight. Then the vanes aren't steering or correcting the arrow. So when you add a broadhead, the blades aren't planning, and the arrow hits point of aim. But it takes more time to build arrows. And I haven't even mentioned all the steps I use to tune a bow before I even get to the arrows. I love to tinker, so I don't mind.
 
I really like what the Fairy has to say, not that I am snorting what he is on necessarily.

Anything that forces you to pay more attention to your set up and ask questions is a good thing, if the fairy dust gets you to do that, perfect.

I am shooting a 300 spine arrow with 125 grain standard slick trick standard broadhead, total arrow weight comes in at 492 with 13-14% FOC, and I can get 263.5 fps on the chronograph with a 70lb bow at 28.5 in draw length. That set up slays elk (pass throughs) at western distances (40-55 yards) and I have some gaps in my pins but not huge. I tinkered a lot, tried some heavier set ups, and like where I ended up. I paper tune, french tune, bare shaft tune, I get really consistent flight between broadheads and field points using all of those methods when I have configured different setups. All this is to say, I don't disagree with much of anything the Fairy says, its all logical, the real value to me though is that it inspires us to tinker and perfect our setup, a 30% FOC setup is not wrong, it just may not be what everyone should be shooting right, but how do you know if you don't try, and again thats the point, mess around and try stuff, arrows, tuning methods, everything.
 
Yeah I went all in.

832 grains 26% foc. Sirius apollo 200spine , 28" carbon to carbon with ethics ss 220gr insert
& sleeve with 250 grain cuttthroat. 4- 2inch sheild cut trueflight feathers & feradyne nockturnals.

Moab's. I can throw them by hand, like a giant dart, 20yards into a target. Drop them from waist
high & they stick into the ground on a wood floor. Best set up I've ever had.
 
wyetterp said:
Yeah I went all in.

832 grains 26% foc. Sirius apollo 200spine , 28" carbon to carbon with ethics ss 220gr insert
& sleeve with 250 grain cuttthroat. 4- 2inch sheild cut trueflight feathers & feradyne nockturnals.

Moab's. I can throw them by hand, like a giant dart, 20yards into a target. Drop them from waist
high & they stick into the ground on a wood floor. Best set up I've ever had.
Click to expand...

You definitely had some of that fairy dust, it’s addictive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
wyetterp said:
Yeah I went all in.

832 grains 26% foc. Sirius apollo 200spine , 28" carbon to carbon with ethics ss 220gr insert
& sleeve with 250 grain cuttthroat. 4- 2inch sheild cut trueflight feathers & feradyne nockturnals.

Moab's. I can throw them by hand, like a giant dart, 20yards into a target. Drop them from waist
high & they stick into the ground on a wood floor. Best set up I've ever had.
Click to expand...
It's so weird reading other peeps setup......I got a 29 inch arrow and 50gr less weight in the point and virtually the same components and I ended up almost 100gr less weight that u got....

Once over 600-650 the arrows are really in a different league....
 
I keep harping on this and I snorted the dust as well last year. But be sure you nock tune your bare shaft carbon arrows through paper first to be sure you're shooting on the spine of the carbon shaft before you go through the complete bare shaft tuning exercise. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out why no matter what I did I kept getting nock right or too stiff tears no matter what point weight I put on it with 100 grain ss ethics inserts. Finally I started turning the nocks on my bareshafts a quarter turn and shot each of them through paper until each bare shaft was a perfect bullet hole or just a very small tear. Then I marked the nock location on the raised index of the nock and made sure I extended it onto the shaft. Then I started playing with changing out each of the different point weights. I discovered that my bow likes 200gr and 250gr. up front the best so far. So 100grain SS inserts and either 100 grain or 150 grain broadheads flew perfect. I wanted greater FOC so I went with the 150gr. VPA 3 blade COC heads. My bow went from 275fps to 235fps but this is a 60lb bow and my DL is only 27". The other cool thing about going heavy is now you can shoot a beastly fast shooting bow and tame it with a heavy arrow setup for really the best of both worlds. Your goal isn't reaching 365fps, your goal is to throw a log with even greater momentum for the ultimate penetration machine and you will shed the vibrating loud shooting mess each time you shoot it with a heavy arrow out of a fast bow. And, you will not need to add lbs and lbs of stabilizers and other junk on your bow to make sure it is quiet. Finally, if you can only shoot a 40lb bow, you will know that your arrow will still penetrate extremely well. I really do not see a down side to this for hunting.
 
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I have been shooting black eagle renegade 250s with 150gr cutthroat and 100gr ss ethics inserts. 30in draw and 72lbs through a vertix. Getting around 260fps with 640gr TAW. Have shot several deer with them and none went past 40yds before falling over, is kinda weird if they aren't alert it seems like they just trot off and fall over.

Wanting to try out a lighter shaft and more FOC, I have looked at the Sirius Orions, Gold Tip Airstrikes, and some others from black eagle. Just can't make up my mind. Using those 150 cutthroats and the 180gr SS ethics insert and collar setup 21% FOC is possible with the prions but I'm worried they aren't tough with only 9.03GPI
 
This seems reasonable for whitetails. I still think time to target is an important factor.

12C091E3-2C60-4566-9FE4-38C01CA8C4E9.png

I guess my question is, for those who are now over the Ashby 650, why?
 
One useful thing I discovered for tinkering with different weights is that you can buy weights that screw into the back of the stock inserts via a long Allen wrench going in from the nock end. My black eagle and gold tip arrows all have inserts pre threaded for this from the factory.
 
Plebe said:
This seems reasonable for whitetails. I still think time to target is an important factor.

View attachment 65918

I guess my question is, for those who are now over the Ashby 650, why?
Click to expand...

The everyman's guide to killing a deer with a compound bow...

Will an expandable broadhead on a light arrow kill a deer? Yes. Can you kill a deer at 50 yards with a bow? Yes. Is a 7 pin sight useful? Sure. Is the Ranch Fairy annoying? Yes. Is Ashby god? Sometimes it seems that way. Can everyone just shut up? I've learned the answer is no. Ok...
saddlehunter.com

I don’t worry as much about time to target, having watched many deer shot from 10-15 yards away duck a 300fps arrow. It’s still crazy, but it do happen.

What does seem to matter on speed though is trajectory. For me it isn’t about pin gaps. It’s about being able to shoot a single pin, and not worry about gaps.

I’ve shot at a bunch of deer the last several seasons. I can only think of one situation where me guessing with a single pin cost me a deer due to missing high/low.

Any of my misses outside of that were completely unrelated to speed/pin gaps/etc. they were misses.

I’ve seen a 510gr arrow shot at 290fps break a deer’s shoulder (exodus head) and travel the full length of the cavity and exit behind last rib. That deer was 12-15 feet away from me on the ground, and I shot it with a single pin. Having to pick pins, or line up V’s, or remember to aim high or low and I could blow that chip shot.

I put pin on deer and shot. I hit within an inch of where I aimed. Dead animal.
 
Plebe said:
This seems reasonable for whitetails. I still think time to target is an important factor.

View attachment 65918

I guess my question is, for those who are now over the Ashby 650, why?
Click to expand...


I should say I agree with the picture/specs, if that wasn’t clear. The time/money/effort to press above 600 grains has way too much downside for deer hunting. If you’ve got all those things, I still think the trajectory loss, and having to use multiple pins or a good memory under pressure to execute shots, leads to worse results.
 
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