Why not use dynamic rope for one-sticking?

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I've been doing some testing with dynamic rope where I'm basically just letting my feet come out from under me, while standing on the floor, with about 6" of slack in the 8 or so total feet of line. So, not a true fall, but a related representation. It has been quite surprising how much bounce the dynamic rope offers. No real way to measure it, but I would guess a solid 2-3 inches of give at least. I doubt that I will ever one-stick climb again on a static rope. I know that there are people who ardently say it makes no difference, but the testing that I'm doing is really starting to inform how things actually perform in my applications. Can't imagine turning down those extra few inches of give in case of a fall.

I’m not saying it makes no difference because in my mind every little bit helps, I’m just saying it won’t make it safe. We don’t know how much of a difference it makes but what we do know is that work positioning harnesses are not made for arresting falls.

 

[GCTerpfan]

I've been doing some testing with dynamic rope where I'm basically just letting my feet come out from under me, while standing on the floor, with about 6" of slack in the 8 or so total feet of line. So, not a true fall, but a related representation. It has been quite surprising how much bounce the dynamic rope offers. No real way to measure it, but I would guess a solid 2-3 inches of give at least. I doubt that I will ever one-stick climb again on a static rope. I know that there are people who ardently say it makes no difference, but the testing that I'm doing is really starting to inform how things actually perform in my applications. Can't imagine turning down those extra few inches of give in case of a fall.

I agree with @Fl Canopy Stalker. I don't think anyone in this thread has said it won't make a difference. I know when I stated the difference was negligible I was speaking in relationship to you saying you climbed until your tether was at your knees. Neither rope will make that safe.

 

[Spartan]

I’m not saying it makes no difference because in my mind every little bit helps, I’m just saying it won’t make it safe. We don’t know how much of a difference it makes but what we do know is that work positioning harnesses are not made for arresting falls.

Absolutely agree. But I am also of the "safety third" mentality, meaning that if safety is our #1 priority and we need 100% safety, then in this context the only course of action is us to choose to not climb the tree in the first place.

My only intention of this entire thread was to explore and discuss why the saddle hunting community gravitates to static ropes for one-stick climbing when dynamic ropes may offer some benefit. After all, one-stick climbing has largely transitioned the way we use ropes as saddle hunters. Traditional saddle hunting uses tethers for rigging purposes, whereas one-stick climbing shifts the use of the tether to something closer to lead-climbing since there will inevitably be some slack in the line as you climb, regardless of how much we try to advance the tether or use a linemans belt, at least in some situations.

@GCTerpfan I get what you're saying, but there were several posts at least alluding to it making no difference. If I recall, there was one that said you would be eating out of a straw either way. That, I disagree with. I don't think there is anything that can make a fall completely safe. Best we can do is mitigate the risk, and I'm becoming more and more convinced that dynamic rope is a large step toward that when climbing with your tether.

 

[GCTerpfan]

Absolutely agree. But I am also of the "safety third" mentality, meaning that if safety is our #1 priority and we need 100% safety, then in this context the only course of action is us to choose to not climb the tree in the first place.

My only intention of this entire thread was to explore and discuss why the saddle hunting community gravitates to static ropes for one-stick climbing when dynamic ropes may offer some benefit. After all, one-stick climbing has largely transitioned the way we use ropes as saddle hunters. Traditional saddle hunting uses tethers for rigging purposes, whereas one-stick climbing shifts the use of the tether to something closer to lead-climbing since there will inevitably be some slack in the line as you climb, regardless of how much we try to advance the tether or use a linemans belt, at least in some situations.

@GCTerpfan I get what you're saying, but there were several posts at least alluding to it making no difference. If I recall, there was one that said you would be eating out of a straw either way. That, I disagree with. I don't think there is anything that can make a fall completely safe. Best we can do is mitigate the risk, and I'm becoming more and more convinced that dynamic rope is a large step toward that when climbing with your tether.

I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion. I used the Eldrid Swift tether I linked for you in another thread all of last year. To me the difference between a dynamic and static rope if a short fall were to occur is worth giving up the few benefits that static rope offers.

I also understand the safety third concept. I work in an industry where I take calculated and informed risks everyday but, I believe that most people significantly underestimate the forces generated in a fall when you climb above your tether.

I would love to see someone take @kyler1945 challenge and film themselves truly falling on a static or dynamic tether. I would bet any sane person stops well short of the type of fall your describing.

I'm not preaching to you. You have the right to climb a tree however you like. I'm only rehashing this so others reading this thread will hopefully take the time to study the kind of forces generated in a 6' fall with a 2 factor. Maybe you have and you accept those risks. I'm just trying to keep someone in the future from sitting in a wheel chair saying "I don't get it, I had a dynamic tether"

 

[Spartan]

I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion. I used the Eldrid Swift tether I linked for you in another thread all of last year. To me the difference between a dynamic and static rope if a short fall were to occur is worth giving up the few benefits that static rope offers.

I also understand the safety third concept. I work in an industry where I take calculated and informed risks everyday but, I believe that most people significantly underestimate the forces generated in a fall when you climb above your tether.

I would love to see someone take @kyler1945 challenge and film themselves truly falling on a static or dynamic tether. I would bet any sane person stops well short of the type of fall your describing.

I'm not preaching to you. You have the right to climb a tree however you like. I'm only rehashing this so others reading this thread will hopefully take the time to study the kind of forces generated in a 6' fall with a 2 factor. Maybe you have and you accept those risks. I'm just trying to keep someone in the future from sitting in a wheel chair saying "I don't get it, I had a dynamic tether"

I bought some of the Swift rope as well. Appreciated you taking the time to provide some details on that one.

 

[CZMark]

I only got to page 5 so I hope this hasn't already been brought up. When you hang to move your stick, you obviously stretch your dynamic rope to some extent. Now when you start climbing and relieve that stress on the rope, does it quickly spring back to its unstretched length or does that take some time to occur? I've never used dynamic rope, so I don't know.

My point is, if it doesn't return to its original condition very quickly after being stretched, it won't dampen your fall as much as you may think and this would be an improper use of dynamic rope.

 

[MattMan81]

 

[BlindBuck]

Abrasion resistance and longevity are the biggest drawbacks. Finding a good neutral color , the stretch while at height, and making sure you get the proper type of dynamic rope are the other drawbacks but those are all minor in the scope of things. For me the better solution was rope that was somewhere in the middle of static rope and dynamic rope

What rope are you using?

For my tether and bridge I'm using Edelrid Swift Protect Pro Dry 8.9mm. It's labeled as a dynamic rope but also has very good abrasion resistance. I do not think it's as dynamic as some ropes in its size though due to the abrasion resistance it has. I also have a redundant bridge/lineman made up using it as well. Using it as a linesman probably isn't smartest idea but it allows me to carry two ropes for three uses.





@Spartan I use a dynamic rope for everything on my saddle setup (bridge, tether, redundant bridge, lineman) even the prusik loop to connect my bridge to the saddle right now is dynamic (Bluewater makes one, not in the picture; that's Sterling 7mm that I was using).

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[Fl Canopy Stalker]

What rope are you using?

For my tether and bridge I'm using Edelrid Swift Protect Pro Dry 8.9mm. It's labeled as a dynamic rope but also has very good abrasion resistance. I do not think it's as dynamic as some ropes in its size though due to the abrasion resistance it has. I also have a redundant bridge/lineman made up using it as well. Using it as a linesman probably isn't smartest idea but it allows me to carry two ropes for three uses.





I use a dynamic rope for everything on my saddle setup (bridge, tether, redundant bridge, lineman) even the prusik loop to connect my bridge to the saddle right now is dynamic (Bluewater makes one, not in the picture; that's Sterling 7mm that I was using).

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I use 10mm protac by Bluewater ropes. It’s low elongation but not completely static. The stretch is twice that of the typical static line but way less than dynamic. Also Bluewater rated their rope diameter at rest not at stretch so the 10mm is smaller than 10mm sterling htp and they also offer it in 9mm (which has 6000 lbs break strength). The cover mass is nearly 50% so it’s abrasion resistance is amazing. I’ve played with static lines including oplux, HTP, predator, deep woods and that Bluewater protac is my favorite. Although it doesn’t have as good of knot characteristics as the others do (also do to the cover mass). It’s also compatible with the normal mechanical ascenders that saddle hunters use

 

[BTaylor]

I use 10mm protac by Bluewater ropes. It’s low elongation but not completely static. The stretch is twice that of the typical static line but way less than dynamic. Also Bluewater rated their rope diameter at rest not at stretch so the 10mm is smaller than 10mm sterling htp and they also offer it in 9mm (which has 6000 lbs break strength). The cover mass is nearly 50% so it’s abrasion resistance is amazing. I’ve played with static lines including oplux, HTP, predator, deep woods and that Bluewater protac is my favorite. Although it doesn’t have as good of knot characteristics as the others do (also do to the cover mass). It’s also compatible with the normal mechanical ascenders that saddle hunters use

How would you compare the 9mm protac to canyon elite? Knots, weight, packing...
And can you get it somewhere in lengths less than 200'?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

How would you compare the 9mm protac to canyon elite? Knots, weight, packing...
And can you get it somewhere in lengths less than 200'?

The weight is similar, it doesn’t knot as well as the canyon ropes do. Packs down about the same…. You can’t get it by the foot anywhere yet….. but here soon you will be able too

 

[emerald ghost]

I use 10mm protac by Bluewater ropes. It’s low elongation but not completely static. The stretch is twice that of the typical static line but way less than dynamic. Also Bluewater rated their rope diameter at rest not at stretch so the 10mm is smaller than 10mm sterling htp and they also offer it in 9mm (which has 6000 lbs break strength). The cover mass is nearly 50% so it’s abrasion resistance is amazing. I’ve played with static lines including oplux, HTP, predator, deep woods and that Bluewater protac is my favorite. Although it doesn’t have as good of knot characteristics as the others do (also do to the cover mass). It’s also compatible with the normal mechanical ascenders that saddle hunters use

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Hey Stalker,
are you still using the 10mm protac ?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I

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Hey Stalker,
are you still using the 10mm protac ?

I use 10mm protac for my tether and lineman’s rope. I use 9mm protac for my SRT/rappel rope. 7mm accessory cord works great for each of them

 

[Brocky]

That’s some strong stuff! Is there somewhere to buy the 9mm by the foot?

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

That’s some strong stuff! Is there somewhere to buy the 9mm by the foot?

I know a guy

 

[John RB]

That’s some strong stuff! Is there somewhere to buy the 9mm by the foot?

@Brocky, So many people ask me what rope to get and where to get it. So I contacted several rope supply companies trying to get us a deal... had several possibilities... but the team at RockNArbor gave us a 10% discount on everything except sale items. All arborist gear too. Just use JRB10 coupon code.

Life Safety Rope - Rock-N-Arbor

www.rocknarbor.com

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[Brocky]

I went with the Protac, which I got at woodhuntingsaddles.com, they have a nice selection and easy to navigate website.