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Spikes, Bolts, and Screw in Steps

Should Spikes, Bolts, and Screw in steps be made legal on public land?


  • Total voters
    62
Yes but how many people here have any formal training in the study of trees to back up their opinions?
Probably next to none, but opinions don’t require data to back them up. People can say yay or nay with or without data. What data is there are on the effects of hunters climbing methods on trees? Why do some states allow it while others prohibit it? I’m not pro sticking tree but at the same time I think there are legal sticks, stands and climbers that do equivalent damage. Why are they ok?
 
Another oddity of this issue is that conversations abound improving habitat usually involve tree removal. I have some areas on private land I hunt where I plan on doing just that. Guys that hunt big woods are always talking about hunting clear cuts where a giant swath of trees have been cut down. But if someone uses bolts to hunt there people get upset.
 
Yea they don't even enforce/follow up on illegal public land baiting so I don't think they're putting in any effort to stop people poking holes in trees.
That's interesting. I see zero sign of illegal baiting here on public. Baiting is everywhere on private. I think you would have a game warden sitting up waiting for you here if you baited on public. You would get reported by the first person who walked up on the bait pile.
 
Just my observations from the woods .....climbers damage the tree a bunch. Most people around here set thier climber on a tree and climb that same tree up and down a lot of times....the spur pierces the bark in 1 pinpoint spot. Depending on the number of teeth the platform has and if the cantilever on the back side is aluminum boomerang you can have 5-8-10-15 many more piercings. It's easy to pick out trees others climb with a climber. Sticks have the pierce and drag marks that don't seem to pierce as deep, the cam over platforms cause a lot of damage, and the we steps poke a good hole too....seems the depth of the pierce itself is the only thing working against spurs as far as actual tree damage
 
The trouble with that is that you're looking at it on a human time scale, not on a tree's time scale. Arborists routinely look at problems in trees that were the result of damage from years, decades, even many decades prior. Recently I was looking at some old Southern Live Oaks in bad shape and judging by the pruning practices that were used, the guys who trashed those trees are probably dead and gone by now. In their minds they probably thought they did a great job but there's a group of majestic trees with massive decay ready to fall over as a result of their handy work.

I'm not saying one hole by itself is going to kill a tree. Trees don't always die from one thing, they often go into a "spiral of decline". They get some damage from one thing, something else in it's environment changes, one stress factor leads to another and they start to coalesce together and cause the tree to go into decline. Again, that process can be decades in the making, hunting the same tree for a few years isn't a long enough time frame to access the long term damage from one's practices.

Just food for thought
Genuinely curious with no real knowledge on the subject.

If a tree is big enough to climb it's big enough to sexually reproduce, right? If a tree dies in 10, 20, 50, 100 years vs 100-500 years later, what does that do to the forest?

I'm not saying bolts arent a negative as far as an individual tree is concerned. They're a hole in the cambium layer and to my understanding that's the problem, whether it comes in the form of a climbing spur, bolt, climbing stand teeth, or woodpecker or insect hole. I just don't see how a tree dying eventually because I put a bolt in it is any worse than it dying because saltwater intrusion or a sapsucker or another tree falling on it killed it.

I can see it being different in different forests, which is why I don't think I support blanket legalization.

I really think blanket banning and local enforcers choosing to enforce or turn a blind eye probably works really well.
 
No to screw ins, gafs or bolts. Although I prefer those over climbing sticks. It’s hard enough to get hunters to remove their stands after the season which is now a law let alone get someone to come back and get their screw in steps after the tree grew into them. I use Ameristep screw ins on all my private set ups and back each one out a full turn at the end of the season to make sure I can remove them if I want to change to a different tree. It’s funny though the only tree I know that I was responsible for killing was with a summit climber on the PA gamelands. Climbed up and down that silver maple 20 plus times and killed my biggest buck from it. Two years later that tree rotted and broke in half. I walked up and got my bow hanger back at ground level.
 
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Probably next to none, but opinions don’t require data to back them up. People can say yay or nay with or without data. What data is there are on the effects of hunters climbing methods on trees? Why do some states allow it while others prohibit it? I’m not pro sticking tree but at the same time I think there are legal sticks, stands and climbers that do equivalent damage. Why are they ok?

People can hold whatever opinions they want. I'm just pointing out why people are more concerned about the restrictions than the damage to trees.
 
When some of us decide to use bolts or spurs anyway…


Haha. I’m routinely taken aback when people take a moral high ground against someone using an illegal climbing method.

Not that I think it’s right or wrong to do it. Just the cognitive dissonance that is required for that stance, gets me every time.
 
I am indifferent on the use of bolts, spikes and screw in steps on public land. But I do believe all hunting gear should be removed daily from public land. I use bolts when I can but I am not going to break the law to use them on public.
 
I find the thought process interesting too. Illegal climbing methods: what about illegal hunting methods, or illegal fishing methods or illegal methods of making money? It's always interesting to see where people draw a line and what they talk themselves into.

Legal and moral are not synonymous, since moral is subjective and legal is codified (but maybe unenforced).
 
I am indifferent on the use of bolts, spikes and screw in steps on public land. But I do believe all hunting gear should be removed daily from public land. I use bolts when I can but I am not going to break the law to use them on public.

I’m on same page with leaving nothing.

Exceptions: I think the rule should be 24 hours from the last time your hands touched the gear. This would allow for leaving a set overnight to be hunted the next morning, or to go get lunch and come back and hunt.

This seems to be the catch all. And pleases anyone worried about porcupine encounters. If the fuzz or a front of class type finds stuff in a tree, it’s either obviously old and can be removed, or can be seen again in 24 hours and if still there, removed.

I would also be ok with a rider on this regulation that it is not illegal to take obviously abandoned(clearly left for over 24 hours) gear. And leave this up to agents and judges to suss out any conflicts here.


Simple effective regulation.

This leaves just the “you’ll kill all the trees” arguments. Which to me, is a financial equation, not a moral dilemma.
 
No way to bolts and screw in steps. Not sure about climbing spikes. I think if you use pole spikes on most trees here back east they don’t go in like a step or bolt. I think they don’t do any more damage than some
Climbing stands or aggressive platforms. Most tree spikes are made for just the thickest bark trees and you can climb most trees here in the east with the lesser intrusive pole
Spikes instead.
 
I say make screw in's legal. They hardly hurt the trees and I''ve seen much worse. I"m in the minority here but I'm from another generation. When I started, there were no Portables w/ the exception of the Baker climber. If you wanted a tree stand, you built it. It was just they way it was back then. There are relics still in the woods to this day. We were pounding nails and bolts in tree for years and years. No one was saying " the poor tree, etc". Portables came along and then screws in came along shortly after. the we could really move. It's a different attitude these days. I get not leaving stuff in the woods but IMO it's not really that big of a deal if a guy leaves his steps in a tree or a stand. It guess that's because I'm used to it. With that said, I don't love it when a guy builds a tree stand right next to one of my favorite trees! LOL (I just found a huge platform 8' of the Ground on state ground)
 
I think around here the law/rule is there for strictly financial reasons. The state sells pine timber off some of the properties, and they want to preserve the marketability of the trees. I think they just have a blanket rule no metal in trees, period. No grey areas to discuss or work out. Follow the money.
 
I say make screw in's legal. They hardly hurt the trees and I''ve seen much worse. I"m in the minority here but I'm from another generation. When I started, there were no Portables w/ the exception of the Baker climber. If you wanted a tree stand, you built it. It was just they way it was back then. There are relics still in the woods to this day. We were pounding nails and bolts in tree for years and years. No one was saying " the poor tree, etc". Portables came along and then screws in came along shortly after. the we could really move. It's a different attitude these days. I get not leaving stuff in the woods but IMO it's not really that big of a deal if a guy leaves his steps in a tree or a stand. It guess that's because I'm used to it. With that said, I don't love it when a guy builds a tree stand right next to one of my favorite trees! LOL (I just found a huge platform 8' of the Ground on state ground)

You’re from a time pre internet. Seeing huntjng gear in the woods changes my happiness by 0% as well.

The issue, I think, is that available land to hunt is shrinking(both in actual acreage, and the distance from access points). And the number of hunters is not shrinking in equal amounts. And more people are getting “mobile”. The concern is that this will lead to way more stuff left in the woods than an occasional wooden platform or set of climbing poles.

This is a way to compromise with minimal regulation, and minimal externalities foisted upon your fellow hunter.
 
I’m on same page with leaving nothing.

Exceptions: I think the rule should be 24 hours from the last time your hands touched the gear. This would allow for leaving a set overnight to be hunted the next morning, or to go get lunch and come back and hunt.

This seems to be the catch all. And pleases anyone worried about porcupine encounters. If the fuzz or a front of class type finds stuff in a tree, it’s either obviously old and can be removed, or can be seen again in 24 hours and if still there, removed.

I would also be ok with a rider on this regulation that it is not illegal to take obviously abandoned(clearly left for over 24 hours) gear. And leave this up to agents and judges to suss out any conflicts here.


Simple effective regulation.

This leaves just the “you’ll kill all the trees” arguments. Which to me, is a financial equation, not a moral dilemma.
I can agree with the 24 hour proposal. Disagree on taken abandon property. The person who left the gear may have a personal issue that takes priority over gear. Saying that I'm not leaving my high dollar crap even in a 24 hour period. I generally assume most people are scum that will take my stuff.
 
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