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10 year Pa deer study

raisins said:
In WV, baiting is legal on private land and very common. So much so that I can't believe CWD hasn't taken off more.

Predictably, the powers that be will wait until there is an issue prior to trying to prevent by outlawing hunting over bait.

Anyways, when I talk to people that hunt over bait, it is obvious that they do not study nor have much experience in how to find deer regarding place and time. It really does stifle your development as a hunter.
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Outlawing hunting over bait isn’t even a guarantee after there is an issue. Both Arkansas and North Carolina allow hunting over bait as part of their current CWD plans. Baiting isn’t allowed out of season, at least in NC.


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weekender21 said:
Outlawing hunting over bait isn’t even a guarantee after there is an issue. Both Arkansas and North Carolina allow hunting over bait as part of their current CWD plans. Baiting isn’t allowed out of season, at least in NC.


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I dont believe it is allowed here in the CWD zone except for during season.
 
weekender21 said:
Outlawing hunting over bait isn’t even a guarantee after there is an issue. Both Arkansas and North Carolina allow hunting over bait as part of their current CWD plans. Baiting isn’t allowed out of season, at least in NC.


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Probably so. I know that in more rural states that allow baiting that it is part of the culture and changing it will meet stiff resistance and it will also come down to a property rights thing (my land, so I can do what I want).

I kind of like baiting because it keeps people off public land (where I'm at).
 
Baiting is illegal in a few counties that are now in a CWD zone. Do people still do it? ...I'm sure. As mentioned above, baiting is part of the culture around here, and big business. The guy who runs the local co-op told me they do about $100,000 a year in corn sales between October and the end of January.

Baiting is 100% illegal on public land here. I like that aspect of it. As Raisins pointed out it keeps folks off of public.
 
There is no more frequently broken than illegal baiting in PA. The amount of guys who tell me they do it after they get to know me is staggering. I myself have done it in my younger dumber days.
Kill a turkey on the public surrounding any private hunting club, and I'd bet money there'd be some corn in the crop.
 
Is season opener archery or gun season? I would not be surprised if it were gun, but I would be surprised if it were archery.

Also, to what extent is this applicable to Deep South deer? I have public within an hour of my house that have three different peak rut times in December into January… I don’t think it’s true the deer are changing their patterns significantly the day before archery (Oct1) that long before the rut and most hunters showing up.
 
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mschultz373 said:
Is season opener archery or gun season? I would not be surprised if it were gun, but I would be surprised if it were archery.

Also, to what extent is this applicable to Deep South deer? I have public within an hour of my house that have three different peak rut times in December into January… I don’t think it’s true the deer are changing their patterns significantly the day before archery (Oct1) that long before the rut and most hunters showing up.
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Season opener is archery. First Sat of Oct.
You can either go with the Infalt philosophy of the big ones are still killable early, as they're still on their summer patterns and don't know they're being hunted yet. Or the Eberhart idea, that hunters flood the woods the weeks leading up to the opener putting out cams, scouting, prepping etc. 7 years of playing this game I'm strongly in the Eberhart camp. I've never seen a giant buck early season. Not once. Not even on cam. And you can see on the cams how fast deer vanish from from mid sept to the opener. The influx of human scent jacks everything up.
 
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Generally speaking, I would agree that deer change their behavior right at the season opener due to pre-season influx of human activity. I do think it is regional and especially property specific to a large degree. Our season opens October 1st and generally the deer are still on their summer patterns (where I hunt). I think part of the reason is difficulty of access and the heat. Not many people are running around the woods scouting when it is still 100 degrees out and only a few go as far into the interior as I do, even when the weather gets nice.

On private land, like that club I was in where the guys could just ride wherever they wanted on 4 wheelers and side by sides, dumping corn, the pressure really ramped up early. Where I hunt now, you have to walk and that deters a lot of people. It is a rare thing to see signs of a human past 500 yards from any road or access lane. They also can't bait, so many don't see the point. I also went from 4500 acres of private to over 50,000 of public that I focus on.

If you can find a buck on a summer pattern around here, you have a chance at him early. The big hurdle is finding one. We have very low deer density, somewhere around 4 to 6 deer per square mile, so finding any deer, much less a good buck, is a bit of a challenge.
 
NMSbowhunter said:
Generally speaking, I would agree that deer change their behavior right at the season opener due to pre-season influx of human activity. I do think it is regional and especially property specific to a large degree. Our season opens October 1st and generally the deer are still on their summer patterns (where I hunt). I think part of the reason is difficulty of access and the heat. Not many people are running around the woods scouting when it is still 100 degrees out and only a few go as far into the interior as I do, even when the weather gets nice.

On private land, like that club I was in where the guys could just ride wherever they wanted on 4 wheelers and side by sides, dumping corn, the pressure really ramped up early. Where I hunt now, you have to walk and that deters a lot of people. It is a rare thing to see signs of a human past 500 yards from any road or access lane. They also can't bait, so many don't see the point. I also went from 4500 acres of private to over 50,000 of public that I focus on.

If you can find a buck on a summer pattern around here, you have a chance at him early. The big hurdle is finding one. We have very low deer density, somewhere around 4 to 6 deer per square mile, so finding any deer, much less a good buck, is a bit of a challenge.
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Wish I could send you some deer. I have over 100 on one farm that I've seen.
 
bigmike23 said:
Season opener is archery. First Sat of Oct.
You can either go with the Infalt philosophy of the big ones are still killable early, as they're still on their summer patterns and don't know they're being hunted yet. Or the Eberhart idea, that hunters flood the woods the weeks leading up to the opener putting out cams, scouting, prepping etc. 7 years of playing this game I'm strongly in the Eberhart camp. I've never seen a giant buck early season. Not once. Not even on cam. And you can see on the cams how fast deer vanish from from mid sept to the opener. The influx of human scent jacks everything up.
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It's more than human pressure causing changes to patterns during this time, I think. You still have a lot of bachelor groups in September. By October, those break up quite a bit and bucks disperse some and you start to see more activity like bucks sparring and such. Blame rising testosterone. I shot a pretty nice buck for my area that was in a pretty good fight with another buck during the first week of October. It was a pretty cool hunt.

Probably food sources shift a bit at this time as well, in certain areas, with deer on less concentrated food as the nut drop has started and/or increases.

The majority September routine seems much more regular, especially in farm country. But turn of the month can come with increasing factors effecting variability. Anecdotally, seems to me an early cold front stimulates that more.
 
Plebe said:
It's more than human pressure causing changes to patterns during this time, I think. You still have a lot of bachelor groups in September. By October, those break up quite a bit and bucks disperse some and you start to see more activity like bucks sparring and such. Blame rising testosterone. I shot a pretty nice buck for my area that was in a pretty good fight with another buck during the first week of October. It was a pretty cool hunt.

Probably food sources shift a bit at this time as well, in certain areas, with deer on less concentrated food as the nut drop has started and/or increases.

The majority September routine seems much more regular, especially in farm country. But turn of the month can come with increasing factors effecting variability. Anecdotally, seems to me an early cold front stimulates that more.
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I agree it's not just human pressure. Once they go hard horned they're able to access thicker cover that once cause too much pain to their sensitive velvet as well. I myself just never had success early season.
Combine that with me hating bugs, ya me no like early season.
 
bigmike23 said:
I agree it's not just human pressure. Once they go hard horned they're able to access thicker cover that once cause too much pain to their sensitive velvet as well. I myself just never had success early season.
Combine that with me hating bugs, ya me no like early season.
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I can still hear skeeters from an early season TX bow hunt I was on, about 20 years ago. Up north, gnats can be nearly as bad as mosquitoes.

Windy days help some with the bug thing, but I too prefer cooler less buggy weather, when it smells like fall and feels like hunting. Still, I get out when I can. Just thankful to be in the NE.
 
NMSbowhunter said:
Generally speaking, I would agree that deer change their behavior right at the season opener due to pre-season influx of human activity. I do think it is regional and especially property specific to a large degree. Our season opens October 1st and generally the deer are still on their summer patterns (where I hunt). I think part of the reason is difficulty of access and the heat. Not many people are running around the woods scouting when it is still 100 degrees out and only a few go as far into the interior as I do, even when the weather gets nice.

On private land, like that club I was in where the guys could just ride wherever they wanted on 4 wheelers and side by sides, dumping corn, the pressure really ramped up early. Where I hunt now, you have to walk and that deters a lot of people. It is a rare thing to see signs of a human past 500 yards from any road or access lane. They also can't bait, so many don't see the point. I also went from 4500 acres of private to over 50,000 of public that I focus on.

If you can find a buck on a summer pattern around here, you have a chance at him early. The big hurdle is finding one. We have very low deer density, somewhere around 4 to 6 deer per square mile, so finding any deer, much less a good buck, is a bit of a challenge.
Click to expand...

I tend to think a lot of public operates like you describe. I’ll see pink tape, tacks, beer cans for about 500 yards walking in off a road or trail. Then it dies off and you have the woods to yourself, to some degree. The distance may be shorter if you hit a swamp or marsh that requires wading.

This will be my first season hunting bow and I’m really hoping the pressure is lower. During the rut last year on one piece of public, I set up a mile from the nearest trail and still had two guys walk up within 400 yards of me - I think they accessed by boat. I saw a buck from that spot the next day, actually across a bayou near where these hunters had come in.
 
mschultz373 said:
I tend to think a lot of public operates like you describe. I’ll see pink tape, tacks, beer cans for about 500 yards walking in off a road or trail. Then it dies off and you have the woods to yourself, to some degree. The distance may be shorter if you hit a swamp or marsh that requires wading.

This will be my first season hunting bow and I’m really hoping the pressure is lower. During the rut last year on one piece of public, I set up a mile from the nearest trail and still had two guys walk up within 400 yards of me - I think they accessed by boat. I saw a buck from that spot the next day, actually across a bayou near where these hunters had come in.
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I took up archery for the challenge of it and for exactly this reason: there is so much less pressure compared to gun season--at least in PA. Plus it's nice hunting early season while the temps are changing and you start in a tshirt and only need a sweatshirt by evening.
 
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