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3/8” carbon to 1/2” carbon

E

Edward Forman

New Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Messages
16
I was excited about carbon bolts until I saw the 3/8” carbon bolt that broke. I understand the guy was trying to break it, standing on the end and bouncing! It would have probably never broke under normal use climbing a tree. Yet it caused concern and rightfully so. I am 68 years old standing at 300 pounds. I use my tree spurs when and where I can and grade 8 bolts as an alternate climbing method. I wanted the carbon bolts to lighten my load so I opted to go to a 1/2” drill bit and 1/2” carbon bolts that would drastically increase the strength over 3/8” carbon. I ordered a Milwaukee 1/2” Ship auger bit and prepared it for my 20 volt DeWalt drill: I didn’t see a significant difference in drilling effort between 3/8” and 1/2”. I then got a 1/2” bolt and it didn’t slip into the cylinder hole. This was a surprise to me. I then purchased a couple 12mm bolts and they slid into the holes without wobble. I am glad I checked this out because I would hate to pay $100+ for carbon bolts and find too late that they don’t fit! 12mm bolts are just .7mm smaller than 1/2” bolts and are much stronger than 3/8” carbon bolts. Just thought I would relate my experience with the 1/2”carbon bolt path to tree climbing. Maybe it will save those who go to 1/2” a costly mistake.
 
I was thinking of going to 1/2” also but hand drilling must be significantly harder I would guess. I’m 225 I’m leaning 3/8”. I already have a bit and a hand drill in 3/8” too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Noonan61 said:
I just had my 302 pound buddy load test 3/8 carbon rods. All good....
Click to expand...

I hate to poopoo on anyone's parade. But I would like you guys to consider some information...

I posted the results of some calculations I had an engineer run on the 3/8" pultruded carbon rods. I won't get into all of the details of what we found, but I'll give you the skinny - pun intended.

In a perfect world, with your weight evenly distributed across the entire rod, and your foot snug against the tree, and the rod perfectly perpendicular to the tree, a 250lb fellow, NOT MOVING, would have around a 3x safety factor. This assumes no damage to the rod from cutting, handling, moisture absorption, etc. and that the load is just sitting there, evenly distributed. I did not run the calculation for anything above 250, because I wouldn't even consider the tool without the 3x safety factor.

My recommendation to folks considering the carbon rods was to do research, really consider what you want to accomplish in going to carbon bolts, what risk you're willing to accept, and then make decisions based on all of that combined. Flat out, I wouldn't recommend even considering 3/8" carbon rods for anyone over 200lbs.

When you factor in many of the variables our calculations didn't take into consideration, the odds of something bad happening are way higher. Remember this - nothing is black and white - yes, your 300lb buddy can jump on one and you can say "everything is fine". But it is not that simple.

Please don't take offense to the next part of this, but I don't want to mince words....

Telling someone you don't know that its "all good" is not only wrong, but it goes against the entire point of this site - hunters helping hunters.

The desire to get light, compact climbing methods is perfectly normal. However, it creates a space on the cutting edge that is incredibly risky. You're entering a space where there is absolutely ZERO solid data supporting your claim. Telling someone that they are perfectly fine doing this is inconsiderate and reckless. Again - don't take offense, but this type of behavior is going to get someone killed. The power of words is hard to wrap your head around, especially sitting behind a computer screen.

I know you don't mean any harm - but consider that a person with little climbing experience, and no experience with this specific climbing method might take your words to heart and think nothing can go wrong. And that person might not live to regret it.

There is some support for the use of carbon rods on this site. I am not against the idea. I actually use them sometimes. But it is much more involved, and requires much more thought and consideration to do so safely.

Please, to any new users browsing this post - go through all of the information available throughout this site on the topic of carbon rods for climbing if you are considering using them. Do not assume because one person says "all good" that there is no risk.

I am sorry if i come across harsh. You guys are awesome and I don't want to see someone get hurt. Use your noggins!
 
kyler1945 said:
I hate to poopoo on anyone's parade. But I would like you guys to consider some information...

I posted the results of some calculations I had an engineer run on the 3/8" pultruded carbon rods. I won't get into all of the details of what we found, but I'll give you the skinny - pun intended.

In a perfect world, with your weight evenly distributed across the entire rod, and your foot snug against the tree, and the rod perfectly perpendicular to the tree, a 250lb fellow, NOT MOVING, would have around a 3x safety factor. This assumes no damage to the rod from cutting, handling, moisture absorption, etc. and that the load is just sitting there, evenly distributed. I did not run the calculation for anything above 250, because I wouldn't even consider the tool without the 3x safety factor.

My recommendation to folks considering the carbon rods was to do research, really consider what you want to accomplish in going to carbon bolts, what risk you're willing to accept, and then make decisions based on all of that combined. Flat out, I wouldn't recommend even considering 3/8" carbon rods for anyone over 200lbs.

When you factor in many of the variables our calculations didn't take into consideration, the odds of something bad happening are way higher. Remember this - nothing is black and white - yes, your 300lb buddy can jump on one and you can say "everything is fine". But it is not that simple.

Please don't take offense to the next part of this, but I don't want to mince words....

Telling someone you don't know that its "all good" is not only wrong, but it goes against the entire point of this site - hunters helping hunters.

The desire to get light, compact climbing methods is perfectly normal. However, it creates a space on the cutting edge that is incredibly risky. You're entering a space where there is absolutely ZERO solid data supporting your claim. Telling someone that they are perfectly fine doing this is inconsiderate and reckless. Again - don't take offense, but this type of behavior is going to get someone killed. The power of words is hard to wrap your head around, especially sitting behind a computer screen.

I know you don't mean any harm - but consider that a person with little climbing experience, and no experience with this specific climbing method might take your words to heart and think nothing can go wrong. And that person might not live to regret it.

There is some support for the use of carbon rods on this site. I am not against the idea. I actually use them sometimes. But it is much more involved, and requires much more thought and consideration to do so safely.

Please, to any new users browsing this post - go through all of the information available throughout this site on the topic of carbon rods for climbing if you are considering using them. Do not assume because one person says "all good" that there is no risk.

I am sorry if i come across harsh. You guys are awesome and I don't want to see someone get hurt. Use your noggins!
Click to expand...

I especially like your last sentence! " Use your noggins!"
 
I apologize for speaking without the proper test data,I weigh 180 pounds and feel safe on carbon steps. I would not climb a tree without my linemen’s belt, nor would I recommend anyone not to use a safety belt. The business of climbing trees is unsafe to begin with, as I know from a 20’ fall, which got me rethinking everything. In the future I will be careful not type before I think.
 
@kyler1945, excellent post. With ultralight setups you are toeing the line. There's no "wiggle room" for error.

You're taking the airbags out of the racecar, so to speak. Increased performance, sure. But a lot of increased risk.

If it doesn't scare you a little to climb, you need to stay on the ground. People who lose that gut feeling in dangerous situations are the ones who get hurt. My climbs are "all good" once my feet are back on the ground.

I can't guarantee others' safety. I can tell you what I do and why, but I can't make a risk/reward assessment for you.

Just keep in mind that the guy on the other end of the keyboard most likely means well, but isn't going to take care of your widow if you fall doing something he recommended.
 
Do they sell a 3/4" hand drill...yikes
I may try 1/2" any chance you could run those numbers Kyler. I'm guessing it could be 8x?
 
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