The worst I deal with is brick manufacturers. If I need 30000 they don’t have in stock they may have a date scheduled to start running that particular model and are pretty accurate on times. If there isn’t already a date set it may be 6-16 weeks but no guarantee on that time frame. It will be different on the mantis and I’m sure it won’t take that long scheduling them in. I expected to get another update Monday with another delay. I could see the manufacturer moving on down the line because of the delay at the test facility. I am glad they waited for the strength test before going full speed with manufacturing. Had the pull test failed they would have been SOL since the manufacturer is just assembling their design. That could have been the end of tethrd before it even got started. It’s my understanding that was basically what put the nail in the coffin for trophyline. It was just hearsay but I heard they rejected a shipment of saddles but had no real recourse with the foreign based company. I still want it tomorrow but will be patient as I wait. I may be totally wrong and shipment of the first batch may only be delayed until Friday. So @g2outdoors prove me wrong. Also technically you did start shipping mid July or earlier. Pretty sure I remember you saying something about carabiners way before the mid July time frame lol.