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Bedding in valleys and ridge spurs

woodsdog2

woodsdog2

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
8,151
A lot of my hunting takes place on ridges that are east~west with spurs that run north ~south off of these ridges. However, the ridges are a result of a large ravine formed by a creek so both the main ridge and the ridge spurs slope down to a narrow valley ravine and the other side of the ravine is virtually the same. So, unlike a lot of scenarios depicted on YT and other information where they show a main stand-alone ridge etc., the large ridges I am hunting are actually just one side of a deep cut. I know and always find a lot of bedding buck sign below in the valley but my question is, this: Is there any predictive way to determine when a buck chooses which side of the ravine he will bed on given different wind direction and thermal activity? My dilemma is that I was scouting the other day and the wind was from the south on this east-west ridgeline. Several ridge spurs run north south with a lot of great buck sign on these ridge spurs. Wouldn't it be more wise for the buck to bed on the ravine where the wind is coming over their back and watching the creek below? So why did I spook out a big single deer bedding on the same side ridge with the wind from the South? Now I'm guessing becaue he was on that north south spur, he was on the lee side of that spur instead of the lee side of the main ridge...... does anybody know in these valley type of bedding situations will the bucks bed like that, utilizing the wind on the spur compared to the wind on the main ridge? Let me know your experiences and/or thoughts.
 
I tend to find the bucks 1/3 way down on either the leeward side, near the point, or if its a break in rough weather, the side with some sun poking in. I find they cross sides a lot and re-bed which makes me question any pattern I do find, I'm sure I'm missing something that would make them want to change, it may be as simple as getting a snack and walking closer to night feed. That being said, my experience with this particular area is limited to gun season and snow tracking. Part of me wonders if they don't care too much if they have food, an escape, and cover close by on whatever side they choose (a good beech brush patch for example), unless its terribly windy.
 
They find pockets where they can see and smell pretty decent, don't get bothered too much, and most importantly, have some cover nearby to skedaddle to. If those criteria are in place, they will break all the theories a guy can come up with. We very rarely get prolonged periods of north or east winds, and deer bed all the time on the south and west slopes.

What's the scale of the terrain? The correlation between leeward aspects and bedding in bigger woods/mountains just isn't there. I do find it more applicable to smaller-scale hill country. But in big country, deer don't go way out of their way to the leeward side of the hill or mountain to lay down. Deer hanging out munching all night on a productive south slope aren't walking a mile so they can specifically go lay down on the leeward side. They just don't.
 
elk yinzer said:
They find pockets where they can see and smell pretty decent, don't get bothered too much, and most importantly, have some cover nearby to skedaddle to. If those criteria are in place, they will break all the theories a guy can come up with. We very rarely get prolonged periods of north or east winds, and deer bed all the time on the south and west slopes.

What's the scale of the terrain? The correlation between leeward aspects and bedding in bigger woods/mountains just isn't there. I do find it more applicable to smaller-scale hill country. But in big country, deer don't go way out of their way to the leeward side of the hill or mountain to lay down. Deer hanging out munching all night on a productive south slope aren't walking a mile so they can specifically go lay down on the leeward side. They just don't.
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I agree with this completely!!!! So now how are you hunting it???
 
elk yinzer said:
They find pockets where they can see and smell pretty decent, don't get bothered too much, and most importantly, have some cover nearby to skedaddle to. If those criteria are in place, they will break all the theories a guy can come up with. We very rarely get prolonged periods of north or east winds, and deer bed all the time on the south and west slopes.

What's the scale of the terrain? The correlation between leeward aspects and bedding in bigger woods/mountains just isn't there. I do find it more applicable to smaller-scale hill country. But in big country, deer don't go way out of their way to the leeward side of the hill or mountain to lay down. Deer hanging out munching all night on a productive south slope aren't walking a mile so they can specifically go lay down on the leeward side. They just don't.
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But that's what all the "experts" say?

Couldn't agree more. Well said
 
What time of day did you bump the deer? Did you got drop some milkweed at the bed to see what the air was actually doing in that spot? Just getting started with scouting more mountainous terrain but in talking with a few guys with a good bit of experience there, air currents dont always move where you would think they should given time of day, environmental conditions and direction of wind. Best I can tell, hunting the mountains the biggest puzzle is figuring out how the air moves in a certain location in various conditions. I would argue that is one of the harder things to master no matter the terrain. A good bit of my hunting is in skillet flat topography and the air movement seldom completely matches the forecasted wind and can be real shifty. Has be related to canopy density best I can figure but sure doesnt seem to have any rhyme or reason.
 
I have similar terrain I hunt and have had similar questions/experiences. I have one large buck on camera this fall bedding down on a ridge spur most of the night, on multiple nights on a wind that, in theory, meant he was not supposed to be there. Made me rethink how they were using the area.
 
BTaylor said:
What time of day did you bump the deer? Did you got drop some milkweed at the bed to see what the air was actually doing in that spot? Just getting started with scouting more mountainous terrain but in talking with a few guys with a good bit of experience there, air currents dont always move where you would think they should given time of day, environmental conditions and direction of wind. Best I can tell, hunting the mountains the biggest puzzle is figuring out how the air moves in a certain location in various conditions. I would argue that is one of the harder things to master no matter the terrain. A good bit of my hunting is in skillet flat topography and the air movement seldom completely matches the forecasted wind and can be real shifty. Has be related to canopy density best I can figure but sure doesnt seem to have any rhyme or reason.
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It was yesterday at around 10:30-11 am. No I didn’t bring my milkweed with me but the wind was coming up the ravine or from the south but may have been rising thermals but then why would the buck be on the north side then?? Theoretically he’s facing into the wind. My ambush strategy is to come in from below early still with settling thermals back down the ravine and be in a terrain feature high enough so when the thermal switch happens as the slope heats up it won’t matter.
 
woodsdog2 said:
I agree with this completely!!!! So now how are you hunting it???
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Honestly, anytime before about, October 20, probably not well. I'm a remarkably lousy early-season hunter. That's where I've gone to school trying to pick up some of the aggressive bedding-based tactics from Infalt et. al.

I will say just absorbing all that leeward/windward stuff and trying to apply it in a very prescribed manner, it kinda got in my head for a couple of years there. It was to the point that I would kind of ignore the big picture of woods sense and fresh sign and sightings and just sit there staring at maps on my computer screen trying to figure out what beds I had marked that were leeward and upper 1/3 that particular day cause that could be the ticket. Took me some trial and error to wake up from that little daze.

But at the same time, I've always hunted bedding areas dating back to when my old man first started showing me the ropes. We just didn't necessarily call it that, we were just hunting where deer hang out during the day.

Early season, big bucks in the big woods are still frustrating as heck to me. I find them isolated, nomadic, for all intents and purposes practically nocturnal, and frankly quite random. Once the rut switch flips though, they start making some mistakes and hanging out around other deer, creeping on the area does more. That's when I've always made my hay.
 
woodsdog2 said:
It was yesterday at around 10:30-11 am. No I didn’t bring my milkweed with me but the wind was coming up the ravine or from the south but may have been rising thermals but then why would the buck be on the north side then?? Theoretically he’s facing into the wind. My ambush strategy is to come in from below early still with settling thermals back down the ravine and be in a terrain feature high enough so when the thermal switch happens as the slope heats up it won’t matter.
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Impossible to know all the why's. Having not been there, maybe better cover on the south side as opposed to the north, high stem security cover closer on the south side than north. He may have just got tired and said this is good enough for now. Found a big single bed on a north face Saturday that was similar, north wind and rising thermals both would have been coming up to him but the was in a spot that had a great view of a parallel bench directly below and a saddle 125 yards to the east. There was high stem count cover just above and to the west of the bed.
 
I have struggled with this too, having moved to hunting big mountains and coming from hill country. I got in the infalt leeward wind beds deal pretty hard and it seems like it holds true much more in the hills than mountains. Having said that, I do feel like I still jump more deer on that leeward military crest than on the windward side, especially in relation to the ridge tops where both are options. To me, it seems like the wind-based bedding in the big country is more of a probability thing: leeward sides are more likely to be bed on but there are many factors. That has been kind of frustrating to come to terms with as it makes things feel a bit more random but it is what it is. It also feels like there is less bedding consistency in general as I find fewer beds that have the "this is THE bed" feel than I did in the hills
 
I’m thinking the answer in these scenarios is setting up early season especially where a multiplicity of terrain features come together and accessing that “turkey foot” of terrain features from below in the AM (ag food on top where I hunt), as the thermals are still settling) until about the time the sun is starting to move down into the valley and thermal shift occurs. During the rut, maybe move higher up the ridge for the day long vigil upon thermal shift???
 
BTaylor said:
I would argue that is one of the harder things to master no matter the terrain. A good bit of my hunting is in skillet flat topography and the air movement seldom completely matches the forecasted wind and can be real shifty. Has be related to canopy density best I can figure but sure doesnt seem to have any rhyme or reason.
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This is one thing I noted this year. Early season didn't matter the wind direction because it was going to swirl all around you due to the foliage. Once all the foliage dropped, the wind was more predictable and accurate. After the foliage drop if the wind wasn't as expected, then take a moment and look at the topography you are currently standing in and it would make sense , e.g. in the upper part of a draw where wind will swirl.
 
Was it a sunny day? In the right conditions he could have been able to smell anything from the south and rising thermals would have brought scent up to him from the draw and he may have had clear enough field of view to watch the next draw to the NE. That said there are guys that think a buck will bed where topography and vegetation make them feel secure regardless of wind direction. I tend to think it is likely more based on the individual deer why they do what they do.
 
Great thread, I am going down the same rabbit hole or should I say ravine myself. I shot a buck last year in a similar area in late November. I was on top of the plateau/hill and he bailed off 400'+ straight down to the bottom of the ravine. We recovered him in a bedding area that was on a bench 15' off the bottom of the ravine in an area that was thick with hemlocks. I am pretty sure he was bedding there because he felt secure in an area with tight cover and little pressure. I have hunted the bottom of these ravines very little due to swirling wind currents and the difficulty of hunting them and retrieving a deer out of them. In the past I was only rifle hunting so the bucks would come out of the ravine chasing doe's, which is how I shot this one. While tracking the deer, I found the area in the bottom of the ravine all ripped up and a lot of deer activity so I decided to spend more time figuring out the bottoms/sides of these ravines.

My plan for now is to hunt near the bedding areas in the early season at times when the wind/wind currents tend to be more steady which I am sure will be a relative thing and catch them moving to feed. My hope is that they will be bedding there due to lack of pressure and the cover, not necessarily due to wind direction. This spring and early summer I will spend some time down in the ravines to start to see how the different winds are acting down in the bottom as compared to up above as well as starting to figure out the specific deer runs.

I used a tracking dog to find the deer I shot last fall and one of the things that the handler said before we started the track is that it can be hard for the dog to sent track deer in the bottom of ravines because the scent will pool in the bottom of the ravine so the dog has a hard time determining the specific direction of where the scent is coming from. We did see this play out as the dog worked the area of last blood in circles for an hour before we found the deer on a bench above us. A few times in a certain area she would lift her nose like a bird dog catching a wind scent however then she would want to follow the blood trail backwards as it had the strongest scent. After a while we decided to go back where she looked like she was catching a faint wind scent and that where she found the deer above us on the bench. I am not quite sure yet how I can use that scent pooling effect to my advantage however it is something to think about and keep in mind.

I look forward to hear how others are making this work.

I also have a better plan for getting another one out of there if I am successful.

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https://a.co/d/cILSlz9
 
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