Blade sharpening...WOW

[BackSpasm]

So reflecting on this.... Do I really even need more than a single diamond stone and a good strop to sharpen broadheads to extremely durable apex hair popping sharp edges? Why even use different grits other than a pretty polish?

 

[Allegheny Tom]

So reflecting on this.... Do I really even need more than a single diamond stone and a good strop to sharpen broadheads to extremely durable apex hair popping sharp edges? Why even use different grits other than a pretty polish?

Kinda what I am thinking.

 

[jakev383]

So reflecting on this.... Do I really even need more than a single diamond stone and a good strop to sharpen broadheads to extremely durable apex hair popping sharp edges? Why even use different grits other than a pretty polish?

Are you referring to a dual grit stone? I suspect you'd want a medium to get the majority of the material off to get an edge, the the finer one to refine the edge even more. The strop to finish and remove the burr. Otherwise I would imagine it would be like trying to dig a ditch with a trowel - sure, you'd get there eventually!

 

[BackSpasm]

Are you referring to a dual grit stone? I suspect you'd want a medium to get the majority of the material off to get an edge, the the finer one to refine the edge even more. The strop to finish and remove the burr. Otherwise I would imagine it would be like trying to dig a ditch with a trowel - sure, you'd get there eventually!

Im talking about a single fairly coarse stone with a strop. Which is all that is needed to get a knife extremely sharp

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Im talking about a single fairly coarse stone with a strop. Which is all that is needed to get a knife extremely sharp

That's what Alex does in one of his videos and he gets it crazy sharp.

 

[BackSpasm]

That's what Alex does in one of his videos and he gets it crazy sharp.

Exactly! So why not my broadheads?

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Exactly! So why not my broadheads?

Those too!
One of the things that Ashby discusses is the clotting cascade and how an ultra fine edge creates better bleeding than a rough edge. The cut with a rough edge blade (like a file sharpened edge) produces the chemical that induces clotting faster. A smooth edge bleeds better and longer.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

When you progressively sharpen an edge, sometimes what you do is instead of reducing removing the burr you're actually hardening the burr which is useful with certain applications. Field knives don't need to be highly refined you would for fine kitchen knives.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Those too!
One of the things that Ashby discusses is the clotting cascade and how an ultra fine edge creates better bleeding than a rough edge. The cut with a rough edge blade (like a file sharpened edge) produces the chemical that induces clotting faster. A smooth edge bleeds better and longer.

I would say it would be more that a rougher edge would just glue itself back together easier than a smoother cut edge, that's why you always rough up a surface to be painted or adding a patch to.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I would say it would be more that a rougher edge would just glue itself back together easier than a smoother cut edge, that's why you always rough up a surface to be painted or adding a patch to.

No, a clean slice does not clot as fast as a rip or a rough cut. There is a chemical reaction involved.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

It's all about the plateletts. Plateletts stick to the damaged walls of the veins/arteries. They'll catch on ragged edges easier than on smooth.

 

[BackSpasm]

When you progressively sharpen an edge, sometimes what you do is instead of reducing removing the burr you're actually hardening the burr which is useful with certain applications. Field knives don't need to be highly refined you would for fine kitchen knives.

Right but why harden a burr instead remove it

 

[brydan]

In the stopping video, Alex addresses that at some point the burr might be hard to detect. But he shows it under high magnification and yes indeed there's still a micro burr.

I'll admit that for most of my knife applications, I really don't need to go to these levels. But then again, when I see Alex demonstrate the durability of the edge when the burr is truly removed, I can see the reasons for taking this to the next level.
I can put a pretty good edge (or what I THINK is good) on our kitchen knives but they just don't hold up well. I assumed it was from knife abuse that my wife tends to do. In hind sight, I now believe it's that I'm not completely removing the burr. A burr is weak, and it rolls quickly and the edge is gone.
If I'm going to take the time to sharpen knives, then I may as well make the most durable edge that I can.
And that mindset is obvious when we talk about broad heads. I insist on the sharpest, most durable edge possible.

Looking back on it I’m sure I wasn’t completely removing the burr either. I’m not a “knife guy” so never really spent much time thinking about it but I was set on always doing an equal number of passes on each side. I thought going to a finer and finer grit was removing the burr but say 10 passes per side with a fine grit was probably just making the burr smaller but not actually removing it.

In the video he mentioned “burr reduction techniques”, alternating passes after the initial sharpening to bring down the burr before moving on to the strop. That makes perfect sense to me. I was going the opposite way, doing more passes per side thinking that was going to make a better edge.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Right but why harden a burr instead remove it

There's some applications for it. Mostly for skinning and fleshing purposes. If you have a burr that's angled up relative to the skin, it will keep the edge from digging into the hide causing a cut

 

[Allegheny Tom]

It's all about the plateletts. Plateletts stick to the damaged walls of the veins/arteries. They'll catch on ragged edges easier than on smooth.

Go to the Ashby Bowhunting Foundation and you can read or listen to the factors that lead to the clotting cascade.

Ashby Bowhunting Foundation

The Ashby Bowhunting Foundation’s goal is to provide the bowhunter with the information and ongoing research to achieve highest possible success rate and reduce the wound/non-recovery rate of big game to the lowest level possible.

www.ashbybowhunting.org

 

[Weldabeast]

I only use 2 grits of diamond stone. I honestly don't know what the grit number is in either stone.....1 says course which I use fxor 95% of the work and a fine for the final 5%. Leather strop. I'm not claiming to be a pro but Im better than the average bear at sharpening stuff. I've never understood using lots of different grits for a pocket/utility type knife.

30 degree bevel on thicker blades and 20 on fine blades. A 30 degree won't get as "scary" sharp as the finer 20 degree but holds on edge longer vs the 20 super sharp but u gonna need to touch up more often. Seems u could clean 4 or 5 deer before needing to resharpen but 2 hogs is pushing it with that super course hair

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Go to the Ashby Bowhunting Foundation and you can read or listen to the factors that lead to the clotting cascade.

Ashby Bowhunting Foundation

The Ashby Bowhunting Foundation’s goal is to provide the bowhunter with the information and ongoing research to achieve highest possible success rate and reduce the wound/non-recovery rate of big game to the lowest level possible.

www.ashbybowhunting.org

That report says the same thing I'm saying which you agreed with. The reaction your talking about will take place regardless how sharp the blade was. Amounts of the agents produced would be less with a cleaner cut vs the ragged.

No, a clean slice does not clot as fast as a rip or a rough cut. There is a chemical reaction involved.

I would say it would be more that a rougher edge would just glue itself back together easier than a smoother cut edge, that's why you always rough up a surface to be painted or adding a patch to.

The fibrin attaches to the
ragged tissue tags at the cut edge of the blood vessel to form a
clot, sealing off the vessel.
What's important to recognize is that the type of edge
finish on your broadhead has an effect on the clotting cascade.
When you use the thinnest, smoothest, sharpest edge finish fewer
of the cells lining the blood vessel's inner wall are damaged.
This means less porthrombin is released. At the other end of the
cascade this means less fibrin is produced; but there's more.
That thinnest, smoothest, sharpest edge also results in fewer
tissue tags at the cut end of the blood vessel. That means there
are now fewer tissue tags for the reduced amount of fibrin to
attach to.

 

[CZMark]

I neither intend to start a controversy nor pretend to be an expert. I sharpen straight razors and have a good microscope. I use Japanese water stones and finish @ either 1200 or 2,000 grit depending on the desired edge (with razors, one is as concerned with the "feel" of the edge as well as sharpness). I have two comments on this subject:

1) Use of diamond stones, even if only used early in the sharpening process, often results in micro chips in the edge.

2) Stropping on linen (or a piece of old firehose or even an old seatbelt) before stropping on leather really helps remove any microburrs.

 

[bigmike23]

I've noticed playing around with multiple different sandpaper grits going from 80 to 10k, and diamond stones from 120 grit to 3k, the point of rapidly diminishing returns happens at 3k. I've noticed no difference after that. Stopping is by far the most important step. Even 300 grit is wicked sharp after being stropped

 

[SNIPERBBB]

After 3k grit, youre basically just polishing the edge. I have a 330 to 9k grit waterstone kit. Some knives I take to 8k, most dont even get the 3k