bridge - Rope vs Amsteel

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Did Wood saddles go out of business because they knew this thread would come into existence one day or did they provide Amstel bridges on their saddles because they are superior to rope?

lol they went out of business due to time restraints and a serious need to prioritize family. Amsteel is great for bridges as long as it’s amsteel on amsteel in my opinion. I would never use it for a linesman lanyard or a tether due to its lack of stretch. As a bridge though I highly endorse it. Of course there are many other ropes and webbing bridges that work just as well and are often easier to adjust.

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

lol they went out of business due to time restraints and a serious need to prioritize family.

How “they” actual dare…

 

[Chickenking]

I'm considering changing from Amstel to Rope for next season. I like the Amstel so far, but it really is a pain to adjust once the prussic has been weighted. I typically climb one stick with it adjusted way down short, and then lengthen my bridge at height, and I find myself needing to unweight my tether more than I'd care to on my platform (or switch to linemans) to fidget with the prussic to get the thing to adjust.

I've discovered the same thing. I switched to an amstel tree tether that came with a prussic hitch. I found it extremely difficult to adjust once weight has been applied. I tried a distal hitch and had basically the same result. I'm also learning after trial and error that the larger diameter rope's are worth the difference in weight and bulkiness when the consequence of failure means I don't get to go home at night.

 

[colin.704]

So, if the carabiner is at the peak and the two sides are attached to the saddle, then the black below is okay but red is not?

If so, I'm amazed that this isn't known here. Am I understanding this correctly?


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you aren't gonna break Amsteel with body weight at any angle. they are talking about winching with it

 

[Chickenking]

Van the co-owner of Hang Free told me I needed to roll the amsteel in my fingers before trying to adjust. Hanging from a tree hoping to do adjustments with one hand and now I’ve got to roll it. My conclusion is that I will tolerate the heavier rope and a better friction knot that I can tend with one hand.


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[IndyBowhunter]

Van the co-owner of Hang Free told me I needed to roll the amsteel in my fingers before trying to adjust. Hanging from a tree hoping to do adjustments with one hand and now I’ve got to roll it. My conclusion is that I will tolerate the heavier rope and a better friction knot that I can tend with one hand.


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this is exactly where I am, and that is exactly what I have experienced. I basically have to stand on the platform, unweight my tether, roll the amsteel prussic in my fingers to loosen it up, then adjust the bridge and reweight the tether. It is just more fiddling than I want to manage, to the point i've considered changing bridges, or adding a redundant bridge so I can have a long and short bridge at all times and not really need any adjustments.

 

[Iron_llama]

Amsteel was never intended to be used for life safety. Show me an industrial harness or arb saddle that uses Amsteel for the life safety connection? Maybe there is one, but I haven't found it in all my discussions and research. This is marketing being pushed by saddle manufacturers, accessories too. Amsteel isn't new and has been around forever.

The durability of Amsteel can't match climbing rope. Amsteel is an awesome product, but there are better options for climbing.

The weight savings is nil when comparing a 6' piece to climbing rope.

All kinds of climbing slings made from Dyneema, which is the same fiber in Amsteel. I'm not an Amsteel fanboi but I'm not sure how compelling this argument is.

Also, maybe I'm missing something, but what's wrong with webbing? I quite like the webbing bridge on my Recon. My Dryad has an Amsteel bridge which has served me well, but I'm tied in to an RCH, so the amsteel is more for positioning than life support.

 

[TreeRecon]

All kinds of climbing slings made from Dyneema, which is the same fiber in Amsteel. I'm not an Amsteel fanboi but I'm not sure how compelling this argument is.

Also, maybe I'm missing something, but what's wrong with webbing? I quite like the webbing bridge on my Recon. My Dryad has an Amsteel bridge which has served me well, but I'm tied in to an RCH, so the amsteel is more for positioning than life support.

All the slings I use are polyester. And they're certified and used for anchoring on rare occasions.

I never said Amsteel wasn't strong. It's just not intended to be used for climbing. I see a lot of use in winches and marine applications. Amsteel will not wear as well as quality climbing rope. Samson's own webpage doesn't list it as a climbing line. I've never met one arborist who uses it. Have seen it in rope access for rigging, but even that is not common

 

[Iron_llama]

All the slings I use are polyester. And they're certified and used for anchoring on rare occasions.

I never said Amsteel wasn't strong. It's just not intended to be used for climbing. I see a lot of use in winches and marine applications. Amsteel will not wear as well as quality climbing rope. Samson's own webpage doesn't list it as a climbing line. I've never met one arborist who uses it. Have seen it in rope access for rigging, but even that is not common

I'm not an expert, and I'm certainly not trying to argue, especially not with someone who knows more than I do.

I thought the issue with climbing on amsteel was friction. It's slippery, and hollow, and melts if it gets too much friction. As I understand it, RescTech and some other climbing ropes have (essentially) Amsteel cores, with nylon or polyester or Technora jackets. If I've got that wrong, or am overly generalizing, then I'm happy to be corrected. But we're discussing bridges, not climbing lines, so I'm not sure the dearth of pure dyneema climbing ropes means that it's not suitable for other climbing applications, such as slings or quickdraws or soft shackles or other rigging. A bridge generally isn't moving very much; at least, not in comparison to belaying a climber, so it's not going to melt from friction. As long as it's properly constructed and attached - and, considering how popular they are, I'm persuaded that there is a proper way to construct and attach an Amsteel bridge - what exactly is the issue?

I can't recall the name, but there is/was a climbing rope that proved to be poorly suited to bridges. IIRC, the repeated pressure in the center of the bridge crushed the core, weakening it to the point it was unsafe. So the thought occurs to me that just because something is an excellent climbing rope doesn't mean it would make a good bridge, and it might not be a good idea to climb on every suitable bridge material. Am I missing something?

 

[TreeRecon]

I'm not saying I'm an expert either. Some climbing lines are better than others as bridges, I agree. I would argue that your bridge does see wear and forces on it, similar to your climbing line, that's why it's a replaceable item.

Amsteel's elongation is also very low, which IMO is not ideal for bridge material.

BTW: the owner of Ape Canyon shares similar sentiments, which is why you don't see Amsteel in their products.

 

[Chickenking]

Ok guys;
Like many of you I’m always experimenting with techniques and various equipment. Rather than giving up on Amstel I purchased a second rope from The Amstel Guy. I purchased the USA pro with the two schwabisich hitches. This was for the purpose of securing my platform to the tree. It originally had a traditional web strap and buckle. Like night and day difference. This rope locks to the tree very tight and the friction hitch releases easily due to the tender that’s included. No metalic parts and it’s lighter and longer.
Great product


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[Brocky]

I'm not an expert, and I'm certainly not trying to argue, especially not with someone who knows more than I do.

I thought the issue with climbing on amsteel was friction. It's slippery, and hollow, and melts if it gets too much friction. As I understand it, RescTech and some other climbing ropes have (essentially) Amsteel cores, with nylon or polyester or Technora jackets. If I've got that wrong, or am overly generalizing, then I'm happy to be corrected. But we're discussing bridges, not climbing lines, so I'm not sure the dearth of pure dyneema climbing ropes means that it's not suitable for other climbing applications, such as slings or quickdraws or soft shackles or other rigging. A bridge generally isn't moving very much; at least, not in comparison to belaying a climber, so it's not going to melt from friction. As long as it's properly constructed and attached - and, considering how popular they are, I'm persuaded that there is a proper way to construct and attach an Amsteel bridge - what exactly is the issue?

I can't recall the name, but there is/was a climbing rope that proved to be poorly suited to bridges. IIRC, the repeated pressure in the center of the bridge crushed the core, weakening it to the point it was unsafe. So the thought occurs to me that just because something is an excellent climbing rope doesn't mean it would make a good bridge, and it might not be a good idea to climb on every suitable bridge material. Am I missing something?

Aramid cored ropes are maybe what you’re thinking of, they should never be used for a bridge.

 

[Skunkworkx]

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

you aren't gonna break Amsteel with body weight at any angle. they are talking about winching with it

I disagree. Angles play a huge factor in rigging and amsteel already isn’t great at dynamic loading characteristics compared to polyester or nylon

 

[bfriendly]

Seems like a bunch of saddle manufacturers are using amsteel. It took a lot for me to trust my first bridge and it was amsteel….I trust it for what I’m using it for. But I Love the easy DIY aspects. That Whoopi bridge is very cool and I’d have no hesitation to use it. I’ll probably make one at some point. What I really like though is those prussiks on the loops for adjustKent’s. My Hawk didn’t do that

 

[30coupe]

I just switched out my Amsteel bridge for a rope one. The adjustable aspect of an "adjustable" Amsteel bridge and an amsteel friction hitch is a misnomer. I'm going to try 9mm climbing rope for the bridge with prussik cord for the adjuster. I haven't had a chance to try it on a tree yet, but just manipulating it in the garage shows positive signs. Amsteel is supposed to slide through the carabiner easily to make turning in the saddle easier. That is probably true, but the rope I have is pretty stiff and slick, so I don't see an issue there. I can't recall the name of the rope (CRS+old age), but I wasn't wild about it for climbing and switched to Canyon Elite, which I much prefer. I'll let you know how this switch turns out.

 

[cjr4497]

Always rope for everything on a saddle and attaching sticks to a tree. I don't get the hard on for dyneema. You need some give in the system for everything. Another scary thing is that most of the dyneema stuff you can buy commercially doesn't have the proper burry lengths or proper tapering. The only thing I like dyneema for is aiders.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Always rope for everything on a saddle and attaching sticks to a tree. don't get the hard on for dyneema. You need some give in the system for everything. Another scary thing is that most of the dyneema stuff you can buy commercially doesn't have the proper burry lengths or proper tapering. The only thing I like dyneema for is aiders.

All good points, however….
Most of the dyneema stuff, have bury the entire length of the rope so, no need to taper and the bury length is longer that suggested. If it were shorter that would be a concern. I do agree with you that a system needs some stretch of give but not stick attachments… curious which rope do you use for your bridge?

 

[1simplemann]

Just curious if any of you guys have used an Amsteel Whoopie Bridge? Let's just assume for the sake of argument that Amsteel is safe to use for a bridge. This seems like a very adjustable bridge w/ no tender. Doubled up I think this would be very strong.

 

[samu]

Always rope for everything on a saddle and attaching sticks to a tree. I don't get the hard on for dyneema. You need some give in the system for everything. Another scary thing is that most of the dyneema stuff you can buy commercially doesn't have the proper burry lengths or proper tapering. The only thing I like dyneema for is aiders.

Exactly. Really makes you wonder if people who make these products have any idea what they're doing. Tapers are overlooked on almost everything. Continuous loops are spliced without rebraiding the rope around the splice, so there's nothing but the bury holding the weight on most prusik adjustable bridges